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On March 07 2014 22:28 Panozen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:16 Lecon wrote:
The timing hits simply too fast because of MSC (no robo) and too hard because of time warp. Stim or no stim a competent Blink timing is rediculously hard to hold without taking massive losses. Doesn't help that it's relatively easy to transition out of blink into a macro game.
Meh... They should leash it to the nexus, just let it be able to recall armies to it. No more retarded offensive timewarps+this no-robo blink allin shit
That was the original design, MSC was attached to the nexus in early beta if I remember correctly.
Afaik, MSC was made mostly for PvP so having it that way would help PvP even more because only defender would have the benefit of MSC.
But Blizzard probably wanted more "entertainment value" from the unit so they gave it aggressive options as well.
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What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit.
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On March 07 2014 22:26 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:24 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:22 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:21 hipo wrote:On March 07 2014 22:20 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 NovaMB wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:17 Jer99 wrote:
Now we know who the best hero is the one who recently won IEM ofc Pls, he cant even beat China. oh right, we never saw a good player lose to a foreigner... like supernova never lost against scarlett, or MVP never lost to stephano... Btw never saw a Korean Pro losing to a non korean Terran. How so? Jaedong  oh really? Cool didn't know. when, who? Dayshi. So you answered like 50% of the question, now the tournament and time pls  And wow, it happened so often 1 time, really? Not like Naniwa, Socke, Dimaga, Scarlett or Stephano did that more often by their own than all foreigner Terrans together. Oh and I am talking macrogames, not cheese btw
Dayshi beat the dong in a bo3 with macro games in that tournament that Tod hosted that ended with a PvP finals. Can't rember the name. Jaedong didn't play that well while dayshi macro was amazing.
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On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit.
That was only one person, and he's the same guy who suggested that losing to blink all-in was the same thing as getting raped in real life, so he might be a bit out of touch with reality.
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United States97274 Posts
On March 07 2014 22:31 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:26 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:24 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:22 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:21 hipo wrote:On March 07 2014 22:20 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 NovaMB wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:17 Jer99 wrote:
Now we know who the best hero is the one who recently won IEM ofc Pls, he cant even beat China. oh right, we never saw a good player lose to a foreigner... like supernova never lost against scarlett, or MVP never lost to stephano... Btw never saw a Korean Pro losing to a non korean Terran. How so? Jaedong oh really? Cool didn't know. when, who? Dayshi. So you answered like 50% of the question, now the tournament and time pls And wow, it happened so often 1 time, really? Not like Naniwa, Socke, Dimaga, Scarlett or Stephano did that more often by their own than all foreigner Terrans together. Oh and I am talking macrogames, not cheese btw Dayshi beat the dong in a bo3 with macro games in that tournament that Tod hosted that ended with a PvP finals. Jaedong didn't play that well while dayshi macro was amazing.
theognis also beat Jaedong in macro games in WCS AM S1 last year
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On March 07 2014 22:21 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:17 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:15 imrusty269 wrote:On March 07 2014 22:14 Caihead wrote:On March 07 2014 22:13 imrusty269 wrote:
On one hand you have 15 yo Life who refuses to play Daedalus point against protoss, one the other you have guys like herO. Using the best strategy to win is what every player is doing, Maru jumped on the 4M vs toss strategy as soon as patch hit, nobody is giving him any shit for it. Because 4M is comparable to blink all in? How? He maybe thinks controling 4 different unit types from 3 different "tiers" is as hard as blinking with one Doesn't matter how difficult a strategy is, if it wins games players will go for it, you don't need 500 apm to do a cannon rush vs zerg, and you don't need to be innovative with your strategy doing a 12 minute roach max, or a 1-1-1 vs protoss, but when popular players like stephano or boxer or naniwa or maru does it it's fine. Then a popular player gets cheesed out then suddenly people act like the players using the strategy are "those guys".
Sounds like a protoss excuse for playing it ez style nowadays. But you are right: ofc it doesn't matter, its part of the game and strat to use a strat that fits your style and lets you win.
Still it is bad game design, if the easier attack wins against the harder defense. There should be a much bigger defenders advantage and fights end well to fast. Want the BW times back
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On March 07 2014 22:31 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:26 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:24 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:22 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:21 hipo wrote:On March 07 2014 22:20 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 NovaMB wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:17 Jer99 wrote:
Now we know who the best hero is the one who recently won IEM ofc Pls, he cant even beat China. oh right, we never saw a good player lose to a foreigner... like supernova never lost against scarlett, or MVP never lost to stephano... Btw never saw a Korean Pro losing to a non korean Terran. How so? Jaedong oh really? Cool didn't know. when, who? Dayshi. So you answered like 50% of the question, now the tournament and time pls And wow, it happened so often 1 time, really? Not like Naniwa, Socke, Dimaga, Scarlett or Stephano did that more often by their own than all foreigner Terrans together. Oh and I am talking macrogames, not cheese btw Dayshi beat the dong in a bo3 with macro games in that tournament that Tod hosted that ended with a PvP finals. Can't rember the name. Jaedong didn't play that well while dayshi macro was amazing.
kk thx bro, will look that up. JD seems a bit off in sc2 anyways
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On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit.
Ofc he wants to win and use best possible builds, nothing wrong with that.
But watching protoss sometimes feels like watching Maximusblack or Hitman stream ladder. Some of us simply want more out of GSL and other premier tournaments like WCS NA, EU etc.
Someone maybe finds Arthur and Has entertaining but I found those games quite disappointing.
Someone finds HerO vs. Innovation series at IEM interesting but I found those games disappointing.
My idea of good TvP are yesterdays games between Maru and Dear not instant 5-10 minute losses.
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On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit.
Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well.
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I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified.
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On March 07 2014 22:32 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:31 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:26 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:24 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:22 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:21 hipo wrote:On March 07 2014 22:20 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 NovaMB wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:17 Jer99 wrote:
Now we know who the best hero is the one who recently won IEM ofc Pls, he cant even beat China. oh right, we never saw a good player lose to a foreigner... like supernova never lost against scarlett, or MVP never lost to stephano... Btw never saw a Korean Pro losing to a non korean Terran. How so? Jaedong oh really? Cool didn't know. when, who? Dayshi. So you answered like 50% of the question, now the tournament and time pls And wow, it happened so often 1 time, really? Not like Naniwa, Socke, Dimaga, Scarlett or Stephano did that more often by their own than all foreigner Terrans together. Oh and I am talking macrogames, not cheese btw Dayshi beat the dong in a bo3 with macro games in that tournament that Tod hosted that ended with a PvP finals. Jaedong didn't play that well while dayshi macro was amazing. theognis also beat Jaedong in macro games in WCS AM S1 last year
Demuslim too, isn't it?
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On March 07 2014 22:29 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:28 Panozen wrote:On March 07 2014 22:16 Lecon wrote:
The timing hits simply too fast because of MSC (no robo) and too hard because of time warp. Stim or no stim a competent Blink timing is rediculously hard to hold without taking massive losses. Doesn't help that it's relatively easy to transition out of blink into a macro game.
Meh... They should leash it to the nexus, just let it be able to recall armies to it. No more retarded offensive timewarps+this no-robo blink allin shit That was the original design, MSC was attached to the nexus in early beta if I remember correctly. Afaik, MSC was made mostly for PvP so having it that way would help PvP even more because only defender would have the benefit of MSC. But Blizzard probably wanted more "entertainment value" from the unit so they gave it aggressive options as well.
which i was rooting against in beta already....
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On March 07 2014 22:29 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:28 Panozen wrote:On March 07 2014 22:16 Lecon wrote:
The timing hits simply too fast because of MSC (no robo) and too hard because of time warp. Stim or no stim a competent Blink timing is rediculously hard to hold without taking massive losses. Doesn't help that it's relatively easy to transition out of blink into a macro game.
Meh... They should leash it to the nexus, just let it be able to recall armies to it. No more retarded offensive timewarps+this no-robo blink allin shit That was the original design, MSC was attached to the nexus in early beta if I remember correctly. Afaik, MSC was made mostly for PvP so having it that way would help PvP even more because only defender would have the benefit of MSC. But Blizzard probably wanted more "entertainment value" from the unit so they gave it aggressive options as well.
Well, one can keep hoping for LoTV I guess. Seeing how much better hots is compared to wol I'm keeping my hopes high
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On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9.
Could we possibly not change the game parameters every time one terran loses one game?
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On March 07 2014 22:34 hipo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:32 Shellshock wrote:On March 07 2014 22:31 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:26 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:24 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:22 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:21 hipo wrote:On March 07 2014 22:20 Rollora wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 NovaMB wrote:On March 07 2014 22:18 Rollora wrote:
[quote]
the one who recently won IEM ofc Pls, he cant even beat China. oh right, we never saw a good player lose to a foreigner... like supernova never lost against scarlett, or MVP never lost to stephano... Btw never saw a Korean Pro losing to a non korean Terran. How so? Jaedong oh really? Cool didn't know. when, who? Dayshi. So you answered like 50% of the question, now the tournament and time pls And wow, it happened so often 1 time, really? Not like Naniwa, Socke, Dimaga, Scarlett or Stephano did that more often by their own than all foreigner Terrans together. Oh and I am talking macrogames, not cheese btw Dayshi beat the dong in a bo3 with macro games in that tournament that Tod hosted that ended with a PvP finals. Jaedong didn't play that well while dayshi macro was amazing. theognis also beat Jaedong in macro games in WCS AM S1 last year Demuslim too, isn't it?
kk thx I remember now And few years back The Spoon Terran won a Tourney even
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On March 07 2014 22:36 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. Could we possibly not change the game parameters every time one terran loses one game?
well if he loses to the same failed unit design, why not?
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France9034 Posts
On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well.
I'm sure Life plays to lose. Definitely.
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On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well.
Life is playing against type, this gives him a distinctive advantage because other players are not used to playing against his style and can't prepare adequately for it. I find it silly that people just assume that players who have good PR and play a different style are automatically better athletes or people.
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On March 07 2014 22:35 Panozen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:29 Qwerty85 wrote:On March 07 2014 22:28 Panozen wrote:On March 07 2014 22:16 Lecon wrote:
The timing hits simply too fast because of MSC (no robo) and too hard because of time warp. Stim or no stim a competent Blink timing is rediculously hard to hold without taking massive losses. Doesn't help that it's relatively easy to transition out of blink into a macro game.
Meh... They should leash it to the nexus, just let it be able to recall armies to it. No more retarded offensive timewarps+this no-robo blink allin shit That was the original design, MSC was attached to the nexus in early beta if I remember correctly. Afaik, MSC was made mostly for PvP so having it that way would help PvP even more because only defender would have the benefit of MSC. But Blizzard probably wanted more "entertainment value" from the unit so they gave it aggressive options as well. Well, one can keep hoping for LoTV I guess. Seeing how much better hots is compared to wol I'm keeping my hopes high better for what? Whom?
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On March 07 2014 22:33 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Ofc he wants to win and use best possible builds, nothing wrong with that. But watching protoss sometimes feels like watching Maximusblack or Hitman stream ladder. Some of us simply want more out of GSL and other premier tournaments like WCS NA, EU etc. Someone maybe finds Arthur and Has entertaining but I found those games quite disappointing. Someone finds HerO vs. Innovation series at IEM interesting but I found those games disappointing. My idea of good TvP are yesterdays games between Maru and Dear not instant 5-10 minute losses.
I should probably stop posting on this forum since you seem to express my ideas and beliefs much better and are much more articulate than myself
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EPT
