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On December 01 2013 19:04 rinnnedor321 wrote:
question. why was WCG viewers so low??
i saw it on the schedule and saw 1000 viewers thought it was WCG qualifiers or something
click it and its the fuarking FINALS?? WHAT??
how is WCG fricken 1000 viewers for finals wut
but thankfully dreamhack was 95,000 viewers for final
One word: Marketing
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I've really come to appreciate Kaelaris's casting during IEM, he has the most natural hype casting or whatever it's called, but it doesn't sound forced at all and is actually appropriate. That other guy who is here who normally casted with ToD just forces it too much and it sounds bad because it's not natural. Compared to his normal casting it's like a forced half-yell even during not that intense moments. Up-and-coming casters should really look to Kaelaris for how to cast really well, I'm surprised he doesn't get booked for more events then he does he deserves some more recognition. Cheers!
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On December 01 2013 19:04 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:01 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:57 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:55 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:48 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Oracles literally arrive 2 or 3 seconds faster than they would otherwise, people are just complaining and following a hive mind mentality because its what the community does Um it's not about it arriving faster, its about the fact that a good protoss pretty much will never let it die and can do a lot more damage than they could before because they can get away or slower units cant catch up to them. Watch game 1 of mvp vs hero, mvp didn't lose purely because of oracle but hero was able to basically stutter step his oracle while target firing workers and getting away without taking any hp damage. I don't really care whether it's "balanced" or not but just pointing out you don't really seem to understand what the main impact of the buff is. Um turrets should shut down an oracle pretty easily, just stutter step your own marines versus it and the oracles has to move and shoot which makes it weaker by a long-shot. If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper Yes you can put down turrets but that's 200 minerals and delays barracks. If they are placing their buildings well and you don't know whether its stargate or blink or just macro game going blind turret can be dangerous against blink all in since its wasted money and put you behind in a macro game. and Um.. I don't get what that has to do with you saying the effect of the oracle buff is it arriving in your just 2-3 seconds faster. Also "If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper" what? lol. wait you mean you have to invest minerals to defend harass, this is clearly unacceptable. It's not like Protoss or zerg has to make cannons, spines, and spores or anything right? Reapers should be able to scout any super-fast tech too btw, if you aren't opening Reaper than thats your own fault. The only way they are hiding tech is by proxy or making a stalker/msc before Nexus which is a dead give away, and even if you still can't figure out blink or oracle just lift your CC into the main and defend... theres no reason to try and defend a natural when he has no Nexus. How many cannons are Protoss building nowadays in early game PvT?
1-2, if they aren't than they are making a second observer and investing into 2 additional Gateways to defend any sort of harassment
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On December 01 2013 19:04 rinnnedor321 wrote:
question. why was WCG viewers so low??
i saw it on the schedule and saw 1000 viewers thought it was WCG qualifiers or something
click it and its the fuarking FINALS?? WHAT??
how is WCG fricken 1000 viewers for finals wut
but thankfully dreamhack was 95,000 viewers for final
It's b/c IEM is going on the same time as WCG, and it's pretty late right now for many other countries.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 01 2013 19:05 juvenal wrote:
So oracles win why bother building other stuff?
no, he didn't win due to the oracle. He won because he managed to defend the all in (imo) from San.
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 01 2013 19:04 rinnnedor321 wrote:
question. why was WCG viewers so low??
i saw it on the schedule and saw 1000 viewers thought it was WCG qualifiers or something
click it and its the fuarking FINALS?? WHAT??
how is WCG fricken 1000 viewers for finals wut
but thankfully dreamhack was 95,000 viewers for final
They don't list their stream on TL so it's put up late(it has to be done manually) also many WCG isn't all that popular anymore.
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On December 01 2013 19:02 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 18:57 Heartland wrote:On December 01 2013 18:52 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Heartland wrote:On December 01 2013 18:49 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:47 Heartland wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Every patch has this development of greatly increasing or decreasing the useage of a unit, even if the changes themselves aren't that big. But then the metagame balances out as people get better at defending and remember that other units exist as well. True but i doubt proxy stargazes will go anywhere. Stargate is the best production building in the game. Oracles, rays, phoenix, tempest (carriers). Unfortunately those units also make for a terrible gameplay IMO. It's not the best production building in the game. That's just hyperbole. Great argument. I´m totally dumbfounded by that. It's about as good as yours really. You're exaggerating. If you like the specifics of the argument it would sound like this: The Stargate isn't the best production facility because: a) sc2 doesn't work in the sense that there is a "best" structure. The complex interaction of builds, economy, match-ups and timings make the idea of a "best" production building ludicrous. b) even if we'd claim that there could be a "best" structure then there are obvious arguments to be made for the Hatchery that produces every last one Zerg unit. Or the Nexus/Command Center which produces the most important units in the game, the workers. Or Barracks, which produces a fantastic all-round unit in the marine, combined with being an upgrade center and creating other specialist units like reapers and marauders. My point is that all the units coming from the stargage allows toss to play many different powerful ways which demand different reactions from your opponent. Stargate produces so many strong units for toss and toss air is overall really strong. If you wan´t to tell me that toss air is weak then go ahead.
Sure, I buy that. What I was arguing against was that it was the best production facility in the game, which is what you said.
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On December 01 2013 19:06 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:02 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:57 Heartland wrote:On December 01 2013 18:52 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Heartland wrote:On December 01 2013 18:49 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:47 Heartland wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Every patch has this development of greatly increasing or decreasing the useage of a unit, even if the changes themselves aren't that big. But then the metagame balances out as people get better at defending and remember that other units exist as well. True but i doubt proxy stargazes will go anywhere. Stargate is the best production building in the game. Oracles, rays, phoenix, tempest (carriers). Unfortunately those units also make for a terrible gameplay IMO. It's not the best production building in the game. That's just hyperbole. Great argument. I´m totally dumbfounded by that. It's about as good as yours really. You're exaggerating. If you like the specifics of the argument it would sound like this: The Stargate isn't the best production facility because: a) sc2 doesn't work in the sense that there is a "best" structure. The complex interaction of builds, economy, match-ups and timings make the idea of a "best" production building ludicrous. b) even if we'd claim that there could be a "best" structure then there are obvious arguments to be made for the Hatchery that produces every last one Zerg unit. Or the Nexus/Command Center which produces the most important units in the game, the workers. Or Barracks, which produces a fantastic all-round unit in the marine, combined with being an upgrade center and creating other specialist units like reapers and marauders. My point is that all the units coming from the stargage allows toss to play many different powerful ways which demand different reactions from your opponent. Stargate produces so many strong units for toss and toss air is overall really strong. If you wan´t to tell me that toss air is weak then go ahead. Sure, I buy that. What I was arguing against was that it was the best production facility in the game, which is what you said.
Still stand behind that.
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On December 01 2013 19:05 Ghulmore wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:02 vthree wrote:On December 01 2013 18:55 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:48 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Oracles literally arrive 2 or 3 seconds faster than they would otherwise, people are just complaining and following a hive mind mentality because its what the community does Um it's not about it arriving faster, its about the fact that a good protoss pretty much will never let it die and can do a lot more damage than they could before because they can get away or slower units cant catch up to them. Watch game 1 of mvp vs hero, mvp didn't lose purely because of oracle but hero was able to basically stutter step his oracle while target firing workers and getting away without taking any hp damage. I don't really care whether it's "balanced" or not but just pointing out you don't really seem to understand what the main impact of the buff is. Um turrets should shut down an oracle pretty easily, just stutter step your own marines versus it and the oracles has to move and shoot which makes it weaker by a long-shot. If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper building 2 turrets per base puts the Terran behind in the mid game... And they do nothing if the Protoss is doing the blink all-in You assume your behind but in reality that's just playing safe... the Turrets will pay for them self in the mid-late game too. 200 minerals really is not a huge investment by any means
400 if you want to protect the natural as well, Protoss can expand with oracle builds. 400 is a huge investment (it is basically 1 CC) at that point in the game.
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On December 01 2013 18:53 hansonslee wrote:Did th000 win? :D
Yeah he did...moon chocked so badly in the 2nd half of game 2 , and throughout game 3
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On December 01 2013 19:04 rinnnedor321 wrote:
question. why was WCG viewers so low??
i saw it on the schedule and saw 1000 viewers thought it was WCG qualifiers or something
click it and its the fuarking FINALS?? WHAT??
how is WCG fricken 1000 viewers for finals wut
but thankfully dreamhack was 95,000 viewers for final
did you check the chinese streamnumber for wcg?
i can image they were very high. i didnt see them though
edit. but yeah. due to marketing and the experience from past wcg noone gets hyped for wcg anymore.
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On December 01 2013 19:08 Tchado wrote:Yeah he did...moon chocked so badly in the 2nd half of game 2 , and throughout game 3
Oh... That really sucks. I am a heavy th000 fan, but seeing Moon crumble like that in the last WCG Warcraft 3 event is pretty heartbreaking 
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On December 01 2013 19:06 Ghulmore wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:04 vthree wrote:On December 01 2013 19:01 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:57 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:55 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:48 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Oracles literally arrive 2 or 3 seconds faster than they would otherwise, people are just complaining and following a hive mind mentality because its what the community does Um it's not about it arriving faster, its about the fact that a good protoss pretty much will never let it die and can do a lot more damage than they could before because they can get away or slower units cant catch up to them. Watch game 1 of mvp vs hero, mvp didn't lose purely because of oracle but hero was able to basically stutter step his oracle while target firing workers and getting away without taking any hp damage. I don't really care whether it's "balanced" or not but just pointing out you don't really seem to understand what the main impact of the buff is. Um turrets should shut down an oracle pretty easily, just stutter step your own marines versus it and the oracles has to move and shoot which makes it weaker by a long-shot. If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper Yes you can put down turrets but that's 200 minerals and delays barracks. If they are placing their buildings well and you don't know whether its stargate or blink or just macro game going blind turret can be dangerous against blink all in since its wasted money and put you behind in a macro game. and Um.. I don't get what that has to do with you saying the effect of the oracle buff is it arriving in your just 2-3 seconds faster. Also "If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper" what? lol. wait you mean you have to invest minerals to defend harass, this is clearly unacceptable. It's not like Protoss or zerg has to make cannons, spines, and spores or anything right? Reapers should be able to scout any super-fast tech too btw, if you aren't opening Reaper than thats your own fault. The only way they are hiding tech is by proxy or making a stalker/msc before Nexus which is a dead give away, and even if you still can't figure out blink or oracle just lift your CC into the main and defend... theres no reason to try and defend a natural when he has no Nexus. How many cannons are Protoss building nowadays in early game PvT? 1-2, if they aren't than they are making a second observer and investing into 2 additional Gateways to defend any sort of harassment
Protoss don't need cannons until the Terran can double drop... That. Is 20 army supply while you need turrets for a single oracle. The timing is a lot different. Terrans also need to make at least 1 bunker...
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On December 01 2013 19:07 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:05 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 19:02 vthree wrote:On December 01 2013 18:55 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:48 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Oracles literally arrive 2 or 3 seconds faster than they would otherwise, people are just complaining and following a hive mind mentality because its what the community does Um it's not about it arriving faster, its about the fact that a good protoss pretty much will never let it die and can do a lot more damage than they could before because they can get away or slower units cant catch up to them. Watch game 1 of mvp vs hero, mvp didn't lose purely because of oracle but hero was able to basically stutter step his oracle while target firing workers and getting away without taking any hp damage. I don't really care whether it's "balanced" or not but just pointing out you don't really seem to understand what the main impact of the buff is. Um turrets should shut down an oracle pretty easily, just stutter step your own marines versus it and the oracles has to move and shoot which makes it weaker by a long-shot. If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper building 2 turrets per base puts the Terran behind in the mid game... And they do nothing if the Protoss is doing the blink all-in You assume your behind but in reality that's just playing safe... the Turrets will pay for them self in the mid-late game too. 200 minerals really is not a huge investment by any means 400 if you want to protect the natural as well, Protoss can expand with oracle builds. 400 is a huge investment (it is basically 1 CC) at that point in the game.
You should be getting the Ebay too begin with for upgrades, and each Turret is 100 minerals. Where is this 400 number from? If you need a third one in your production than thats becuase you can't micro your marines properly vs an Oracle than thats your fault
people also don't seem to realize how far a protoss is set back in terms of his timings when he makes a Stargate + Oracle, not too mention theres a risk aliment in opening with Stargate as you can just die or fall behind too certain Terran builds in return
the main problem I'm seeing in Terrans games lately are they will defend the oracle and ruin their advantage by trying to end the game earlier than it should imo
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On December 01 2013 19:07 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:05 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 19:02 vthree wrote:On December 01 2013 18:55 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:48 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Oracles literally arrive 2 or 3 seconds faster than they would otherwise, people are just complaining and following a hive mind mentality because its what the community does Um it's not about it arriving faster, its about the fact that a good protoss pretty much will never let it die and can do a lot more damage than they could before because they can get away or slower units cant catch up to them. Watch game 1 of mvp vs hero, mvp didn't lose purely because of oracle but hero was able to basically stutter step his oracle while target firing workers and getting away without taking any hp damage. I don't really care whether it's "balanced" or not but just pointing out you don't really seem to understand what the main impact of the buff is. Um turrets should shut down an oracle pretty easily, just stutter step your own marines versus it and the oracles has to move and shoot which makes it weaker by a long-shot. If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper building 2 turrets per base puts the Terran behind in the mid game... And they do nothing if the Protoss is doing the blink all-in You assume your behind but in reality that's just playing safe... the Turrets will pay for them self in the mid-late game too. 200 minerals really is not a huge investment by any means 400 if you want to protect the natural as well, Protoss can expand with oracle builds. 400 is a huge investment (it is basically 1 CC) at that point in the game.
You can just put turret in the main and then protect natural with units, and if you move out/move out units drop a turret in once you start down your tech path. You have to react to your opponent or you lose the game. Yes you are spending that 400 minerals, but if it stops the oracle your opponent has just spent 300 min 300 gas on stargate + oracle so it's an even trade in the long run.
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Come on San, you are champion material, go earn it!
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On December 01 2013 19:10 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:06 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 19:04 vthree wrote:On December 01 2013 19:01 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:57 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:55 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:50 Nibbler89 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:48 Ghulmore wrote:On December 01 2013 18:44 RaFox17 wrote:On December 01 2013 18:41 Heartland wrote:
I long for the coming weeks when Oracle hysteria recedes a little. Watching the oracle this weekend i doubt the hysteria will calm down that easily. Have to admit that that buff was stupid. Toss is stronk enough in the early-mid-lategame. Oracles literally arrive 2 or 3 seconds faster than they would otherwise, people are just complaining and following a hive mind mentality because its what the community does Um it's not about it arriving faster, its about the fact that a good protoss pretty much will never let it die and can do a lot more damage than they could before because they can get away or slower units cant catch up to them. Watch game 1 of mvp vs hero, mvp didn't lose purely because of oracle but hero was able to basically stutter step his oracle while target firing workers and getting away without taking any hp damage. I don't really care whether it's "balanced" or not but just pointing out you don't really seem to understand what the main impact of the buff is. Um turrets should shut down an oracle pretty easily, just stutter step your own marines versus it and the oracles has to move and shoot which makes it weaker by a long-shot. If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper Yes you can put down turrets but that's 200 minerals and delays barracks. If they are placing their buildings well and you don't know whether its stargate or blink or just macro game going blind turret can be dangerous against blink all in since its wasted money and put you behind in a macro game. and Um.. I don't get what that has to do with you saying the effect of the oracle buff is it arriving in your just 2-3 seconds faster. Also "If your losing a lot of workers to it than its the equivalence of a Protoss losing 1-2+ workers to a Reaper" what? lol. wait you mean you have to invest minerals to defend harass, this is clearly unacceptable. It's not like Protoss or zerg has to make cannons, spines, and spores or anything right? Reapers should be able to scout any super-fast tech too btw, if you aren't opening Reaper than thats your own fault. The only way they are hiding tech is by proxy or making a stalker/msc before Nexus which is a dead give away, and even if you still can't figure out blink or oracle just lift your CC into the main and defend... theres no reason to try and defend a natural when he has no Nexus. How many cannons are Protoss building nowadays in early game PvT? 1-2, if they aren't than they are making a second observer and investing into 2 additional Gateways to defend any sort of harassment Protoss don't need cannons until the Terran can double drop... That. Is 20 army supply while you need turrets for a single oracle. The timing is a lot different. Terrans also need to make at least 1 bunker...
Widow Mines beg to differ, most Terran are just too stupid to execute a harass build order correctly and miss the proper timing. Send Helions or marines into the natural to force the overcharge than go into the main, if he dosen't have cannons or 3 gates worth of stalkers than you will do damage and you can retreat without losing your investment
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My stream doesn't work anymore. Can anyone tell me what is going on? I know it's 2-1 in herO's favor, but I want details, people!
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 01 2013 19:13 hansonslee wrote:
My stream doesn't work anymore. Can anyone tell me what is going on? I know it's 2-1 in herO's favor, but I want details, people!
it's 2-1 in san's favor
looking to be tied 2-2
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On December 01 2013 19:13 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 19:13 hansonslee wrote:
My stream doesn't work anymore. Can anyone tell me what is going on? I know it's 2-1 in herO's favor, but I want details, people! it's 2-1 in san's favor
Oh, my bad!!!
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EPT
