yesterday I did something I would never do few months ago. I turned my stream off after taeja won against life. I just didn't care who will win because whole tournament was boring. DH format is afwul, players are too tired and that effects their play and game in general is worse than ever. This is not whine, this are my thougts. If something doesn't change SC2 will be less and less popular (we can see so many retired players and jangbi's one is an alarm call because he was in code s and simply quited, even with so much money in the pot and his overall strenght in a game). Simple problems with internet makes tournaments suffer for more than an hour in arranged schedule. TvZ is obviously problematic MU, no one can deny it. Constant presure with same cheap and too strong units that can beat tier 3 units of other races, if other races will have time to get those tier 3 units (zergs can't do it most of the time). So we are in situation where same level skilled Z and T players can't compete. Fact is, terrans play same games over and over against Z and P. It is boring, you can't find many interesting games. Inno and Taeja are great in it because they are robots, they can repeat over and over same thing. And they wil win because game is like that. But, TvT is different, it is only interesting MU with T in it because you have to do some different things. So it is not strange Inno is bad at it, he is a robot and he was great when TvT was only about hellbats (he likes to repeat same things over and over). Tajea is more human if you look it like that :p TvP today is all about pulling scv and it is scary how that "strat" can be so good over and over again. ZvZ went forward with giving mutas more power but there is still too much boring ground fights (muta + scourge fights in BW were orgasmic). PvP is interesting because there is so much micro and different strategies. PvZ is a problem too, zergs aren't OK with late game so they mostly are trying to finish everything too early and most of the time they fail.
I'm watching sc scene from 2005. and I have never seen so much complains in BW. Yes, people were complaining because "flash is robot" or something like that but there wasn't so much complains about the game itself. I don't care about stuff like "but game is young". It is not young, there is 12 years of experience + WoL time so you can't use those arguments + you have community and pro players complaining about same things for months before some changes.
Something has to be changed. For me, Terran is biggest problem, after that LAN thing and Blizzards involvement in tournaments, tournament formats (there should be something in common, to give bo5 after group stage, finals should always be bo7, no one should torchure players like at DH or having afwul extended series like at MLG). I am a hardcore fan and I wasn't interested in finals (I was watching games from ro16 without much excitement) so it worries me. I know many of you disagree but I just had to say all of this. I hope many of you have different thoughts because it would mean it is me only and that everything is ok and that I'm just getting old and too nostalgic about some things so I can't find excitement anymore.
On September 16 2013 07:47 Caladan wrote: Biggest disappointment for me this DH was the performance by Jaedong and Flash. Would so love love love it to see them again fight against each other on a big stage.
What happened to this?
Jaedong always get a lead early game and still find a way to throw mid-game to end game, against Serral he tried a infestor transition in Muta vs Muta and against sOs he pretty much threw the 2nd game as he underestimated the power of having 2 -3 immortals in the armies and continued massing roaches.Feel that he could had won this tournament if he was to win against sOs as his ZvT is looking really strong, he always having a supply lead and pretty much always had the map control by surrounding and killing off all the hellions. It was quite painful to see Jaedong lose to sOs in this manner. However, it was a stacked tournament in the first place =( Guess it time for him to win WCS NA now instead.
Feel that his decision making after mid-game is holding him back in ZvP a lot but his early game is really some of the best in ZvP. His engagement at time can be a problem as well but he is showing lot of varieties in his play but his early game cheese such as baneling bust execution was pretty bad and looked desperate but I am sure he will find a way. Jaedong fighting!
Flash was a true disappointment, he pretty much brought 2 TvZ builds to DH... reaper expand and marauders hellbats,he pretty much only won 1 series by holding a proxy hatches into roaches against YuGiOh. Well, I hope he learnt something from this trip and work harder for his WCS Ro16 group of death. Flash fighting!
On September 16 2013 19:03 purgerinho wrote: yesterday I did something I would never do few months ago. I turned my stream off after taeja won against life. I just didn't care who will win because whole tournament was boring. DH format is afwul, players are too tired and that effects their play and game in general is worse than ever. This is not whine, this are my thougts. If something doesn't change SC2 will be less and less popular (we can see so many retired players and jangbi's one is an alarm call because he was in code s and simply quited, even with so much money in the pot and his overall strenght in a game). Simple problems with internet makes tournaments suffer for more than an hour in arranged schedule. TvZ is obviously problematic MU, no one can deny it. Constant presure with same cheap and too strong units that can beat tier 3 units of other races, if other races will have time to get those tier 3 units (zergs can't do it most of the time). So we are in situation where same level skilled Z and T players can't compete. Fact is, terrans play same games over and over against Z and P. It is boring, you can't find many interesting games. Inno and Taeja are great in it because they are robots, they can repeat over and over same thing. And they wil win because game is like that. But, TvT is different, it is only interesting MU with T in it because you have to do some different things. So it is not strange Inno is bad at it, he is a robot and he was great when TvT was only about hellbats (he likes to repeat same things over and over). Tajea is more human if you look it like that :p TvP today is all about pulling scv and it is scary how that "strat" can be so good over and over again. ZvZ went forward with giving mutas more power but there is still too much boring ground fights (muta + scourge fights in BW were orgasmic). PvP is interesting because there is so much micro and different strategies. PvZ is a problem too, zergs aren't OK with late game so they mostly are trying to finish everything too early and most of the time they fail.
I'm watching sc scene from 2005. and I have never seen so much complains in BW. Yes, people were complaining because "flash is robot" or something like that but there wasn't so much complains about the game itself. I don't care about stuff like "but game is young". It is not young, there is 12 years of experience + WoL time so you can't use those arguments + you have community and pro players complaining about same things for months before some changes.
Something has to be changed. For me, Terran is biggest problem, after that LAN thing and Blizzards involvement in tournaments, tournament formats (there should be something in common, to give bo5 after group stage, finals should always be bo7, no one should torchure players like at DH or having afwul extended series like at MLG). I am a hardcore fan and I wasn't interested in finals (I was watching games from ro16 without much excitement) so it worries me. I know many of you disagree but I just had to say all of this. I hope many of you have different thoughts because it would mean it is me only and that everything is ok and that I'm just getting old and too nostalgic about some things so I can't find excitement anymore.
But in the end, GG to Taeja, he deserved it.
If you were a hardcore fan you would have watched the finals.
I also think this DH was the most boring one since quite a while and after round 2 you could hear that even the audience did not realy care anymore.I was questioning myself if I should bother and watch the Ro8 and instead of beeing excited for the finals I though "meh, stayed up that long, might as well watch this too". I dont know about the viewernumbers, but I think they have been around 75-80k, not that great either.
On September 16 2013 19:03 purgerinho wrote: yesterday I did something I would never do few months ago. I turned my stream off after taeja won against life. I just didn't care who will win because whole tournament was boring. DH format is afwul, players are too tired and that effects their play and game in general is worse than ever. This is not whine, this are my thougts. If something doesn't change SC2 will be less and less popular (we can see so many retired players and jangbi's one is an alarm call because he was in code s and simply quited, even with so much money in the pot and his overall strenght in a game). Simple problems with internet makes tournaments suffer for more than an hour in arranged schedule. TvZ is obviously problematic MU, no one can deny it. Constant presure with same cheap and too strong units that can beat tier 3 units of other races, if other races will have time to get those tier 3 units (zergs can't do it most of the time). So we are in situation where same level skilled Z and T players can't compete. Fact is, terrans play same games over and over against Z and P. It is boring, you can't find many interesting games. Inno and Taeja are great in it because they are robots, they can repeat over and over same thing. And they wil win because game is like that. But, TvT is different, it is only interesting MU with T in it because you have to do some different things. So it is not strange Inno is bad at it, he is a robot and he was great when TvT was only about hellbats (he likes to repeat same things over and over). Tajea is more human if you look it like that :p TvP today is all about pulling scv and it is scary how that "strat" can be so good over and over again. ZvZ went forward with giving mutas more power but there is still too much boring ground fights (muta + scourge fights in BW were orgasmic). PvP is interesting because there is so much micro and different strategies. PvZ is a problem too, zergs aren't OK with late game so they mostly are trying to finish everything too early and most of the time they fail.
I'm watching sc scene from 2005. and I have never seen so much complains in BW. Yes, people were complaining because "flash is robot" or something like that but there wasn't so much complains about the game itself. I don't care about stuff like "but game is young". It is not young, there is 12 years of experience + WoL time so you can't use those arguments + you have community and pro players complaining about same things for months before some changes.
Something has to be changed. For me, Terran is biggest problem, after that LAN thing and Blizzards involvement in tournaments, tournament formats (there should be something in common, to give bo5 after group stage, finals should always be bo7, no one should torchure players like at DH or having afwul extended series like at MLG). I am a hardcore fan and I wasn't interested in finals (I was watching games from ro16 without much excitement) so it worries me. I know many of you disagree but I just had to say all of this. I hope many of you have different thoughts because it would mean it is me only and that everything is ok and that I'm just getting old and too nostalgic about some things so I can't find excitement anymore.
But in the end, GG to Taeja, he deserved it.
If you were a hardcore fan you would have watched the finals.
On September 16 2013 19:20 Gr33d wrote: I also think this DH was the most boring one since quite a while and after round 2 you could hear that even the audience did not realy care anymore.I was questioning myself if I should bother and watch the Ro8 and instead of beeing excited for the finals I though "meh, stayed up that long, might as well watch this too". I dont know about the viewernumbers, but I think they have been around 75-80k, not that great either.
I'd have to strongly disagree with you. There were so many exciting matches this dreamhack and plenty of opportunities to watch each group played out on several streams. The coverage was amazing. I'd say my only disappointment with this dreamhack is only with the broadcasters methods of storing the vods. Not every broadcaster used the same method. Some just uploaded huge chunks, others actually uploaded each match as a highlight video on their twitch channel. MLG is charging subscriber fees just to view the vods(which aren't organized and which is pretty retarded considering it's not even their tournament). The tournament itself was great though.
Turns out Nathanias is also charging subscriber fees just to view the vods from the tourney as well.
Edit: I just found out that the matches recorded/casted on nathanias channel are free to view on his youtube channel found @ youtube.com/darknathanias
On September 16 2013 19:20 Gr33d wrote: I also think this DH was the most boring one since quite a while and after round 2 you could hear that even the audience did not realy care anymore.I was questioning myself if I should bother and watch the Ro8 and instead of beeing excited for the finals I though "meh, stayed up that long, might as well watch this too". I dont know about the viewernumbers, but I think they have been around 75-80k, not that great either.
dont agree with that. players were really good, production did a good job and i dont really understand arguments about the audience.
viewernumbers were indeed not great but we dont know how many switched the stream to svt-stream because twitch got awful at the end. that LoL thing with 350k+ viewers might has pulled some viewers away.
The tournaments need to change their streaming provider. Twitch is a pile of crap, it has problems in nearly every tournament. Yesterday i tuned in MMa vs Innovation and it lagged again unwatchable. The day before in group stages it was fine, but you cant have these kind of problems every time.
On September 16 2013 21:39 azzih wrote: The tournaments need to change their streaming provider. Twitch is a pile of crap, it has problems in nearly every tournament. Yesterday i tuned in MMa vs Innovation and it lagged again unwatchable. The day before in group stages it was fine, but you cant have these kind of problems every time.
Lol, it was fine, and is almost always fine. The problem is yours.
On September 16 2013 21:39 azzih wrote: The tournaments need to change their streaming provider. Twitch is a pile of crap, it has problems in nearly every tournament. Yesterday i tuned in MMa vs Innovation and it lagged again unwatchable. The day before in group stages it was fine, but you cant have these kind of problems every time.
Lol, it was fine, and is almost always fine. The problem is yours.
The quality of twitch depends on the location of the person, who watches it. It might have been fine for you, since you are in NA, but the EU servers do often have problems and I had pretty annoying lag over the weekend as well. (And it probably was´nt on my end as well, I had 5 different streams up at a time sometimes and they all ran fine for a while).
On September 16 2013 21:39 azzih wrote: The tournaments need to change their streaming provider. Twitch is a pile of crap, it has problems in nearly every tournament. Yesterday i tuned in MMa vs Innovation and it lagged again unwatchable. The day before in group stages it was fine, but you cant have these kind of problems every time.
Lol, it was fine, and is almost always fine. The problem is yours.
I can guarantee you that it's not fine in europe. Everyone here is experiencing problems, regardless of how fast your internet connection is.
On September 16 2013 21:39 azzih wrote: The tournaments need to change their streaming provider. Twitch is a pile of crap, it has problems in nearly every tournament. Yesterday i tuned in MMa vs Innovation and it lagged again unwatchable. The day before in group stages it was fine, but you cant have these kind of problems every time.
Lol, it was fine, and is almost always fine. The problem is yours.
I can guarantee you that it's not fine in europe. Everyone here is experiencing problems, regardless of how fast your internet connection is.
I wouldnt go that far, I never had problems with twitch lagging. Might be just lucky, might be my ISP I dunno, but I never had lags on twitch if my internet was fine (my ISP is unreliable as hell though, 30 down, sometimes I just get 2 down for random reasons)
On September 16 2013 19:20 Gr33d wrote: I also think this DH was the most boring one since quite a while and after round 2 you could hear that even the audience did not realy care anymore.I was questioning myself if I should bother and watch the Ro8 and instead of beeing excited for the finals I though "meh, stayed up that long, might as well watch this too". I dont know about the viewernumbers, but I think they have been around 75-80k, not that great either.
dont agree with that. players were really good, production did a good job and i dont really understand arguments about the audience.
viewernumbers were indeed not great but we dont know how many switched the stream to svt-stream because twitch got awful at the end. that LoL thing with 350k+ viewers might has pulled some viewers away.
No, no , no.
I was in the audience. The atmosphere was phenomenal. Perhaps the stream didn't show that, but the games were awesome and the crowd was really good.
EPT
