• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:05
CET 07:05
KST 15:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0243LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament How do the "codes" work in GSL?
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 TvZ is the most complete match up CasterMuse Youtube A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here!
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1667 users

[WCS EU] RO16 Group C Premier Season 2 2013 - Page 34

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 32 33 34 35 36 108 Next
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12392 Posts
August 07 2013 17:06 GMT
#661
On August 08 2013 02:05 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:02 Zenbrez wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Big J wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:56 DJHelium wrote:
The best thing about the void rays is that you don't have to target fire, they will kill the hydras first anyway. As soon as you see them targeting a roach, just activate them.

I don't think Tefel is reacting to this build in a good way, infestors would at least twice as good.


I think people overestimate infestors for that. Fungal has been nerfed by 10damage vs armored and infestors are really expensive in the midgame. He would get at most 10infestors instead of the 30hydras he was working with.

Imo, the way to go against this style is either blindcounter the third with an allin or sit on 4bases forever with hydra/viper/swarmhost/statics.

Edit: fungal is still good vs void rays, but it's not affordable to deal with them in the midgame.

You underestimate it. You don't need 10 infestors. You only use them for fungal, ITs are useless. Voidrays stack a loooot - sure he could split them, but lets be honest, nobody really does. Even having just 2 infestors, pinning them and dealing 50-60 dmg (since people generally overlap the fungals) to ALL of them is hugely significant. A pure hydra army won't do the job


I don't think you should base your strategy on your opponent playing shit. Naniwa scouted a lot. Had he seen infestors, he would have surely presplit his army.


That's a bit unrealistic. That's like saying, "don't ever go for templars in PvT, the terran is good, he will split his bio."
No will to live, no wish to die
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
August 07 2013 17:06 GMT
#662
Kinda want MMA to win this, though I wouldn't mind Happy winning either. I just want both of them to make it through. MMA mostly though, so GO YOU.
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
Shantastic
Profile Joined October 2011
United States435 Posts
August 07 2013 17:06 GMT
#663
On August 08 2013 02:01 Apoteosis wrote:
Wait, Naniwa being polite ?

WTH has happened to him ?

He has developed a keen awareness for when a camera is pointed at him, documenting and broadcasting the things he says to the public.
"My grandpa could have proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, but he's also dead." -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#664
On August 08 2013 02:03 Exarl25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:57 Gojira621 wrote:
naniwa made voids every single game and tefel whines balance despite the fact that he didnt make a single infestor or corruptors. what a joke


You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that.


Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit.


Phoenix are an anti-air unit and lose to Corruptors. Trying to cement units into arbitrary roles is what is horrible. Corruptors do well against massive units, it's fine for them to lose to Void Rays when the Zerg has other options for dealing with them.


True, then again there are upgrades that give range increase and make Phoenix with some micro beat corrupters.
Anyway better not discuss this here.
GaliX
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany380 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#665
I don't want to judge any balance in LotV.
Its going to be probebly impossible to make a balanced game in the last addon.
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#666
MMA please crush Happy
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#667
On August 08 2013 02:06 scypio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:01 AgentW wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:00 scypio wrote:
Naniwa looked pretty good there, he adapted to Tefel's playstyle pretty well (apart from the throw in G1).

What? It was much more Tefel NOT adapting to NaNiwa's play. Not a single infestor was built.


Tefel has a story of sticking to his builds forever. He is unlikely to surprise anyone with building hydras, he just executes it well enough to get into wcs eu ro16.

Naniwa on the other hand is known for coming up with new builds and he played differently vs Tefel today.


At least in the third game Tefel should have tried to go for an earlier Ling-Hydra push. It's actually possible to beat Nani's opening with that. But Tefel kept on doing his Roach-Hydra-push that came way too late to kill Naniwa.
Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
Panozen
Profile Joined August 2013
248 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#668
On August 08 2013 02:06 Shantastic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:01 Apoteosis wrote:
Wait, Naniwa being polite ?

WTH has happened to him ?

He has developed a keen awareness for when a camera is pointed at him, documenting and broadcasting the things he says to the public.


I don't know, his twitter still seems to be full Nani
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#669
please make it both out of the group. no need to nerf toss! everything's fine! HAPPY MMA HAPPY MMA! gogo
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
Thallis
Profile Joined September 2010
United States314 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#670
On August 08 2013 02:06 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:04 Thallis wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:57 Gojira621 wrote:
naniwa made voids every single game and tefel whines balance despite the fact that he didnt make a single infestor or corruptors. what a joke


You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that.


Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit.


Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc)


Phoenix, Colossus, Carriers, Tempest.

Why would you a-move your Tempest into Corruptors. There's no other way you're gonna lose Tempests to Corruptors if you have some archons underneath, though.


You'd obviously have a ground army as well to deal with his.
/)*(\
BlueFlames
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1756 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#671
On August 08 2013 02:06 Waise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:04 Gojira621 wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:01 Undead1993 wrote:
actually just a simple question, is someone really enjoying this after game analysis stuff by apollo? i mean it's not apollo's fault but i feel like this is unnecessary


its cool but it makes the broadcasts unnecessarily long. I know they have no control over how long each game is, but it seems like there is so much time between games sometimes in WCS and I simply can't just sit here and watch an entire 4 or 5 hour broadcast where it feels like 2 hours of that is the guys at the desk, videos, analysis, etc.

well they don't have commercials to run like typical sports events and you can't just run game after game after game... i think most people want some downtime to go to the bathroom, make lunch, occupy their brains with things other than starcraft for a little bit...


Espeacially after HasuObs games. But maybe they could find something else for the segment.
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
August 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#672
On August 08 2013 02:05 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:02 Zenbrez wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Big J wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:56 DJHelium wrote:
The best thing about the void rays is that you don't have to target fire, they will kill the hydras first anyway. As soon as you see them targeting a roach, just activate them.

I don't think Tefel is reacting to this build in a good way, infestors would at least twice as good.


I think people overestimate infestors for that. Fungal has been nerfed by 10damage vs armored and infestors are really expensive in the midgame. He would get at most 10infestors instead of the 30hydras he was working with.

Imo, the way to go against this style is either blindcounter the third with an allin or sit on 4bases forever with hydra/viper/swarmhost/statics.

Edit: fungal is still good vs void rays, but it's not affordable to deal with them in the midgame.

You underestimate it. You don't need 10 infestors. You only use them for fungal, ITs are useless. Voidrays stack a loooot - sure he could split them, but lets be honest, nobody really does. Even having just 2 infestors, pinning them and dealing 50-60 dmg (since people generally overlap the fungals) to ALL of them is hugely significant. A pure hydra army won't do the job


I don't think you should base your strategy on your opponent playing shit. Naniwa scouted a lot. Had he seen infestors, he would have surely presplit his army.

Tefel should have just played the swarm host turtle. That's the way to beat those air armies, make yourself invulnerable to anything that isn't mass colossus and then pick of stuff with vipers.

My point wasn't that LOL FUNGAL OWN STACKED VOIDS, it was moreso that infestors do certainly help vs that composition. He went mass hydra everygame, and it never worked (unless Naniwa made a critically bad decision, game 1). Swarm host would have also been a good decision, I agree.
Refer to my post.
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#673
On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:57 Gojira621 wrote:
naniwa made voids every single game and tefel whines balance despite the fact that he didnt make a single infestor or corruptors. what a joke


You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that.


Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit.


Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc)

Your army of corrupters can beat a smaller army of corrupters from your enemy!
This is our town, scrub
Ettick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States2434 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#674
On August 08 2013 02:05 Larkin wrote:
MMA's hair is sick.

Koreans always have the best hair
Cinim
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark866 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#675
On August 08 2013 02:03 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:00 Cinim wrote:
Well, you cant blame that all on voidrays, but anyone has to be an outright fool to not agree with the fact that voidrays are really strong.
They aren't just strong because of more damage since WoL, but because of the fact that voidrays are currently the only air units that don't require any micro skills whatsoever, making them insanely easy to use. Naniwa had DECENT force fields, but nothing that impressive honestly, especially considering that he only had to micro the sentries.

Naniwa didn't play that much better, and if voidrays were "fixed" it would certainly be a lot closer.
TL:DR
Void rays are strong, mostly because they don't require any micro.

Obvious solution is to bring back flux vanes. :p

It's hard for voids to require micro because they're slow air units, same as tempests or broods or corruptors or vikings or BCs.


Vikings require a lot more micro, because they are created as a fragile unit that dies very easily. Corrupters, due to the units the other races have, are required to always be split quite a lot, tempest needs a lot of micro due to being so expensive, and to utilize their long range. Broods requires you to micro really well with other units to support them. BCs might be the same, they probably need some changes as well.
Hell, it's about time
scypio
Profile Joined December 2011
Poland2127 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#676
On August 08 2013 02:04 Waise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:03 scypio wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:01 Waise wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 VisonKai wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:57 Abominous wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:56 KristofferAG wrote:
Gimme dem KeSPA chat rules pls.

Yeah, god forbid some drama occurs.


But drama sucks nooooo!!!

srsly people, something has to make these kinds of games interesting. I enjoyed this series because of the backstory of it and the reactions, even thuogh the games were mediocre at best.

so if the players aren't upset and don't dislike each other the game is boring? why would i be happy for the players to be unhappy? they're human beings


it's not boring, it's fine when the game can stand on its own even if two nonames played it. But a bit of story / drama to spice things up is most welcome.

so again: you think it's "welcome" if the players are upset or unhappy?

you are free to have that opinion, man, but i don't consider other people's emotions my entertainment...


Player being happy/sad after a won/lost game helps to channel emotions to the viewer (me). I like to see that the game actually matters to them.
I play random | I like Hots | INnoVation | sOs | Tefel TOP1!
Fyzar
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands8010 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#677
On August 08 2013 02:04 Gojira621 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:01 Undead1993 wrote:
actually just a simple question, is someone really enjoying this after game analysis stuff by apollo? i mean it's not apollo's fault but i feel like this is unnecessary


its cool but it makes the broadcasts unnecessarily long. I know they have no control over how long each game is, but it seems like there is so much time between games sometimes in WCS and I simply can't just sit here and watch an entire 4 or 5 hour broadcast where it feels like 2 hours of that is the guys at the desk, videos, analysis, etc.

I like it a lot, yeah. Don't have a super specific reason, just makes it feel more complete to me.
It appears I have been chosen.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#678
LET'S GO MMA!
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Waise
Profile Joined June 2013
3165 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#679
On August 08 2013 02:06 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:05 Big J wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:02 Zenbrez wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Big J wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:56 DJHelium wrote:
The best thing about the void rays is that you don't have to target fire, they will kill the hydras first anyway. As soon as you see them targeting a roach, just activate them.

I don't think Tefel is reacting to this build in a good way, infestors would at least twice as good.


I think people overestimate infestors for that. Fungal has been nerfed by 10damage vs armored and infestors are really expensive in the midgame. He would get at most 10infestors instead of the 30hydras he was working with.

Imo, the way to go against this style is either blindcounter the third with an allin or sit on 4bases forever with hydra/viper/swarmhost/statics.

Edit: fungal is still good vs void rays, but it's not affordable to deal with them in the midgame.

You underestimate it. You don't need 10 infestors. You only use them for fungal, ITs are useless. Voidrays stack a loooot - sure he could split them, but lets be honest, nobody really does. Even having just 2 infestors, pinning them and dealing 50-60 dmg (since people generally overlap the fungals) to ALL of them is hugely significant. A pure hydra army won't do the job


I don't think you should base your strategy on your opponent playing shit. Naniwa scouted a lot. Had he seen infestors, he would have surely presplit his army.


That's a bit unrealistic. That's like saying, "don't ever go for templars in PvT, the terran is good, he will split his bio."

i sort of agree with you, and yet korean players are literally so good that this is sort of how it ends up working... 10 minute build order games over and over in major tournaments
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
August 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#680
On August 08 2013 02:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:
On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 08 2013 01:57 Gojira621 wrote:
naniwa made voids every single game and tefel whines balance despite the fact that he didnt make a single infestor or corruptors. what a joke


You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that.


Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit.


Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc)

Your army of corrupters can beat a smaller army of corrupters from your enemy!

Great and deep insight! I'm writing this one down.
kiss kiss fall in love
Prev 1 32 33 34 35 36 108 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 247
mcanning 112
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2168
Tasteless 221
Snow 146
Dewaltoss 24
Icarus 12
NaDa 11
Dota 2
febbydoto19
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1742
Stewie2K737
m0e_tv316
Other Games
summit1g9767
WinterStarcraft387
C9.Mang0290
RuFF_SC2100
Mew2King17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1490
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1268
• Stunt528
Upcoming Events
CasterMuse Showmatch
2h 55m
Light vs Queen
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5h 55m
OSC
17h 55m
The PondCast
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
SC Evo Complete
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-22
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.