On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
Well, they can't really because of the dynamic of TvZ. While you're getting the minerals and gas to get those billion static defence's and SH's you're going to get dropped and take damage that will snowball into your economy.
I'm not saying it hasn't got a place in TvZ, maybe there are cool and interesting timings with it but I can't see it being a staple of TvZ.
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
Imagine a siege tank that can be blocked by shooting down the shells. Swarm Hosts are essentially that, but slowed down.
On June 27 2013 03:28 InvictusRage wrote: What happened in game 2? I never got the stream back up before the game ended.
Looked like Stephano traded positive with a hydra-ish army (I caught the end of this fight) vs gateway units as MC takes his third. Stephano followed it up with muta ball towards undefended natural with ling heavy army assaulting MC's ground army near the third.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
well, that's true, but it's the only way swarm host design can work, unless you were to change locusts into something like a seeker missile
i see the source of frustration with pvz swarm hosts, but to me it's similar to widow mines in zvt. when i first started playing against widow mines, in my head i was like "QQ terran is getting free shots on my army QQ", but after i settled down and practiced, it became something manageable
both units might still be bad design, they might not, but it's a very fine line they tread between being innovative and just adding crappy concepts
EPT
