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Stephano killed all Pheonix + Mothership Core while assaulting 3rd base. Then did a Mutalisk & Zergling Switch. Assaulted the second base with mutalisk while the zergling were in between 2nd and 3rd base (blocking the stalkers) ... MC was still fully walled.. no escape for probes.. no recall possible since mothership core was down.. gg
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On June 27 2013 03:32 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:28 InvictusRage wrote:
What happened in game 2? I never got the stream back up before the game ended. MC tried to take a third on Neo Planet. The predictable result followed.
Time for another Sad zealot club !
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On June 27 2013 03:30 fuzzylogic44 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:27 Schelim wrote:On June 27 2013 03:25 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote:
My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank. locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage. in other news, stream comes back into gg. well played Stephano!  Imagine a siege tank that can be blocked by shooting down the shells. Swarm Hosts are essentially that, but slowed down.
They have a much, much, much higher effective range though.
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On June 27 2013 03:32 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:27 Schelim wrote:On June 27 2013 03:25 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote:
My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank. locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage. in other news, stream comes back into gg. well played Stephano! well, that's true, but it's the only way swarm host design can work, unless you were to change locusts into something like a seeker missile i see the source of frustration with pvz swarm hosts, but to me it's similar to widow mines in zvt. when i first started playing against widow mines, in my head i was like "QQ terran is getting free shots on my army QQ", but after i settled down and practiced, it became something manageable both units might still be bad design, they might not, but it's a very fine line they tread between being innovative and just adding crappy concepts
The swarm host is the kind of unit which is either completely useless or overpowered depending on the scenario.
Lots of zergs have died trying to use swarm hosts against their opponents, but when it actually works it looks like the opponent never had a chance against the never ending swarm.
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On June 27 2013 03:30 Dudasc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:28 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:24 gobbledydook wrote:On June 27 2013 03:23 ref4 wrote:On June 27 2013 03:14 Heartland wrote:On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote:
why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases? Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof you speak as if it doesn't cost money. Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank. minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game.
my point was that if drones were produced the way probes and SCVs are, creating static d wouldn't limit your macro the way it currently does, so it would be possible to have static d earlier
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On June 27 2013 03:35 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:30 Dudasc wrote:On June 27 2013 03:28 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:24 gobbledydook wrote:On June 27 2013 03:23 ref4 wrote:On June 27 2013 03:14 Heartland wrote:On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote:
why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases? Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof you speak as if it doesn't cost money. Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank. minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game. my point was that if drones were produced the way probes and SCVs are, creating static d wouldn't limit your macro the way it currently does, so it would be possible to have static d earlier
By the time you have the money to mass static defense, larva isn't your main concern. Zergs tend to slack on injecting in the late game anyway because they have more than enough larvae.
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lol Stephano doesn't even care enough to do an interview
or it's another technical issue but they don't wanna say it
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Around three years into SC2, still have maps where it's impossible to take a third as any race besides zerg.
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On June 27 2013 03:34 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:32 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:27 Schelim wrote:On June 27 2013 03:25 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote:
My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank. locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage. in other news, stream comes back into gg. well played Stephano! well, that's true, but it's the only way swarm host design can work, unless you were to change locusts into something like a seeker missile i see the source of frustration with pvz swarm hosts, but to me it's similar to widow mines in zvt. when i first started playing against widow mines, in my head i was like "QQ terran is getting free shots on my army QQ", but after i settled down and practiced, it became something manageable both units might still be bad design, they might not, but it's a very fine line they tread between being innovative and just adding crappy concepts The swarm host is the kind of unit which is either completely useless or overpowered depending on the scenario. Lots of zergs have died trying to use swarm hosts against their opponents, but when it actually works it looks like the opponent never had a chance against the never ending swarm.
i really think the issue is not with swarm hosts but that the combination of swarm host + creep spread + strategic static D is abusive. and also the fact that there isn't currently a meta for small numbers of swarm hosts (which is likely because they just aren't effective in small numbers)
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On June 27 2013 03:36 Schelim wrote:
lol Stephano doesn't even care enough to do an interview
or it's another technical issue but they don't wanna say it
Technical issue is a possibility, Stephanos computer broke and he had to play the games on a laptop.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Random musing while we wait for the match to pick up speed. It is possible to have a 4-10 map score and get into premier league. If you lose both your premier matches 0-2, lose your challenger match 0-2 an lose first group match 0-2 before winning loser + final 2-1 you'll be in premier league with a sub 50% win rate that season.
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On June 27 2013 03:36 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:35 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:30 Dudasc wrote:On June 27 2013 03:28 Waise wrote:On June 27 2013 03:24 gobbledydook wrote:On June 27 2013 03:23 ref4 wrote:On June 27 2013 03:14 Heartland wrote:On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote:
why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases? Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof you speak as if it doesn't cost money. Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank. minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game. my point was that if drones were produced the way probes and SCVs are, creating static d wouldn't limit your macro the way it currently does, so it would be possible to have static d earlier By the time you have the money to mass static defense, larva isn't your main concern. Zergs tend to slack on injecting in the late game anyway because they have more than enough larvae.
larvae are always a concern and if you waste them at any stage of the game it can bite you in the ass
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I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves.
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On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote:
I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves.
What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O
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"Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
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On June 27 2013 03:40 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote:
I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves. What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O
it's the internet, people don't need nor do they use reason
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On June 27 2013 03:40 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote:
I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves. What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O
I don't want to stoop to balance whine, but I feel like he sort of just rode the metagame into the success that he actually managed to achieve. I've always found his play to be really boring, and at his height he was like a EU MVP.Sniper.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On June 27 2013 03:41 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:40 Bagi wrote:On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote:
I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves. What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O it's the internet, people don't need nor do they use reason
Well I hate you so gg wp.
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On June 27 2013 03:41 Eurekastreet wrote:
"Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
faster medivacs, worse infestors
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EPT
