On June 26 2013 17:39 Sinedd wrote: why are koreans playing in WCS EU ?
can somebody please explain ?
The tournaments aren't region locked, the LAN part of the tournament(ro16 onward) simply takes place in EU, AM or KR. The regions are open to any player who wants to join it, but once you pick a region you're locked to it for all of 2013(there was an exception where players could switch regions once between s1 and s2 of this year since WCS is all new and there were some issues with KR players).
On June 26 2013 17:39 Sinedd wrote: why are koreans playing in WCS EU ?
can somebody please explain ?
The tournaments aren't region locked, the LAN part of the tournament(ro16 onward) simply takes place in EU, AM or KR. The regions are open to any player who wants to join it, but once you pick a region you're locked to it for all of 2013(there was an exception where players could switch regions once between s1 and s2 of this year since WCS is all new and there were some issues with KR players).
oh its done like this..
okay.. makes SOME sense.. although I think that region locked tournaments and then the international ones would be a better idea ;P
On June 26 2013 18:00 gobbledydook wrote: Poor shuttle...absolutely nobody likes him.
I like him because he's former NSH...unfortunately he's just not putting up the hottest results lately D:
What the heck, almost none of the "links" in the OP are actually links! D:<
I just had a good laugh when I saw this comment and then got back to the top of the page just to find out that he is right. ;D
ahaha wtf
Standardization Committee Chairman does not approve of the section headers' background color (either make it match with TL forum color or make it more snazzy).
On June 27 2013 00:07 jimothyjim wrote: EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 1m First ladder game, and I meet slivko which I am supposed to play in 1 hour for WCS eu haha
I guess he found a new computer or was messing around earlier. I don't entirely trust his tweets after his excuses during the Snute game at HSC
On June 27 2013 00:30 edgeOut wrote: Why is Stephano still here? Thought he said he will retire after last season of WCS.
he said he will retire in august.
Yes but what year?
this year and he is even looking to take a month of vacation in july. Only affects training though he will still end his tournaments, maybe even go to the world finals at the end if he has enough points.
On June 27 2013 00:07 jimothyjim wrote: EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 1m First ladder game, and I meet slivko which I am supposed to play in 1 hour for WCS eu haha
I guess he found a new computer or was messing around earlier. I don't entirely trust his tweets after his excuses during the Snute game at HSC
What did he say?
He was trolling TaKe by going full NaNiwa.
EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 23 Juin My thumbs are sweating so much. Can't hold my mouse haha.
EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 23 Juin My table is not stable. I keep missclicking.
EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 23 Juin The sun is on my face, can't see anything.
On June 27 2013 00:07 jimothyjim wrote: EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 1m First ladder game, and I meet slivko which I am supposed to play in 1 hour for WCS eu haha
I guess he found a new computer or was messing around earlier. I don't entirely trust his tweets after his excuses during the Snute game at HSC
On June 27 2013 00:30 edgeOut wrote: Why is Stephano still here? Thought he said he will retire after last season of WCS.
he said he will retire in august.
Yes but what year?
this year and he is even looking to take a month of vacation in july. Only affects training though he will still end his tournaments, maybe even go to the world finals at the end if he has enough points.
Anyway go go MC and Shuttle !
Then it's not a retirement really. Just a transition from pro to semipro.
On June 27 2013 00:30 edgeOut wrote: Why is Stephano still here? Thought he said he will retire after last season of WCS.
he said he will retire in august.
Yes but what year?
this year and he is even looking to take a month of vacation in july. Only affects training though he will still end his tournaments, maybe even go to the world finals at the end if he has enough points.
Anyway go go MC and Shuttle !
Then it's not a retirement really. Just a transition from pro to semipro.
Its more an enjoying the ride, but who knows what he will be doing in the end.
So I try to write something in the chat and they say: you must Facebook connect. Does anyone else find stuff like that annoying? Why are they forcing me to have damned facebook
On June 27 2013 01:27 Qwerty85 wrote: So I try to write something in the chat and they say: you must Facebook connect. Does anyone else find stuff like that annoying? Why are they forcing me to have damned facebook
That is weird, I can talk in the chat without facebook connected to twitch in any way. Have you tried to empty the cache and reload the page? caching errors can cause very strange issues.
On June 27 2013 01:27 Qwerty85 wrote: So I try to write something in the chat and they say: you must Facebook connect. Does anyone else find stuff like that annoying? Why are they forcing me to have damned facebook
That is weird, I can talk in the chat without facebook connected to twitch in any way. Have you tried to empty the cache and reload the page? caching errors can cause very strange issues.
Yes I tried but I cant talk without first logging from Facebook. Not sure what is up with that but I didn't have that problem yesterday.
On June 27 2013 01:27 Qwerty85 wrote: So I try to write something in the chat and they say: you must Facebook connect. Does anyone else find stuff like that annoying? Why are they forcing me to have damned facebook
That is weird, I can talk in the chat without facebook connected to twitch in any way. Have you tried to empty the cache and reload the page? caching errors can cause very strange issues.
Yes I tried but I cant talk without first logging from Facebook. Not sure what is up with that but I didn't have that problem yesterday.
On June 27 2013 01:53 goody153 wrote: roachwars suck .. i like ling bling better than this type of zvz ..
ling bling wars, roach wars, pre-spore buff muta wars, they all have the same problem, which is that in pro zvzs 99% of the time neither player wants to take the risk of transitioning so it becomes a zerg MOBA
honestly as a zerg player i wish something could be done with the matchup to make macro games a possibility, because a lot of the time it's really bordering on impossible
On June 27 2013 01:53 goody153 wrote: roachwars suck .. i like ling bling better than this type of zvz ..
ling bling wars, roach wars, pre-spore buff muta wars, they all have the same problem, which is that in pro zvzs 99% of the time neither player wants to take the risk of transitioning so it becomes a zerg MOBA
honestly as a zerg player i wish something could be done with the matchup to make macro games a possibility, because a lot of the time it's really bordering on impossible
agreed .. ling bling wars was the trademark of zvz its actually entertaining to watch(not sure when playing though) ..
On June 27 2013 01:53 goody153 wrote: roachwars suck .. i like ling bling better than this type of zvz ..
ling bling wars, roach wars, pre-spore buff muta wars, they all have the same problem, which is that in pro zvzs 99% of the time neither player wants to take the risk of transitioning so it becomes a zerg MOBA
honestly as a zerg player i wish something could be done with the matchup to make macro games a possibility, because a lot of the time it's really bordering on impossible
agreed .. ling bling wars was the trademark of zvz its actually entertaining to watch(not sure when playing though) ..
ling bling is very entertaining to watch because it's so fast-paced and high-stakes, but for me as a lower league player, it's really frustrating to be forced into it early on. it makes me feel like my whole game plan is just out the window and all that matters anymore is bane control, and at my level usually neither myself nor my opponent has the bane control to make for a good game, so it just comes down to coinflip decision making and whose micro fails first. maybe it's more fun for pros
plus i just don't like playing short games because it makes me feel like the time i spent doing my opener was a waste
That hidden base hasn't really "paid for itself" like Kaelaris is making it out to be. It's still a third, and he didn't get a lightning fast fourth...
On June 27 2013 02:15 BigAsia wrote: This is the problem with SC2 these days. like 15 minutes of macro and nothing going on, one big battle - game over :-S
Lol, not really. This was much more prevalent in WoL, HotS has a lot more exciting, multiple engagement games. This just happened to not be one of them.
On June 27 2013 02:15 BigAsia wrote: This is the problem with SC2 these days. like 15 minutes of macro and nothing going on, one big battle - game over :-S
Short memory or not seen the first 10 min of the game?
players not used to scout for proxy bases on big maps that aren't forced cross is funny to see. Sad MC lost though. Shuttle was clever though sneaking out workers after making sure obs are not in vision with a scan and the army blocking scouts from the ground and of course not muling to hard there.
On June 27 2013 02:15 theBALLS wrote: Shuttle is the better player. Have seen him crush pros like Stephano easily.
i believe shuttle will win wiht not much worry against MC
however, while he may have look good when he first met stephano on ladder, that was when stephano didn't know about HOTS, he later adapted and proceeded to win every single ladder game against shuttle
On June 27 2013 02:15 BigAsia wrote: This is the problem with SC2 these days. like 15 minutes of macro and nothing going on, one big battle - game over :-S
On June 27 2013 02:15 BigAsia wrote: This is the problem with SC2 these days. like 15 minutes of macro and nothing going on, one big battle - game over :-S
Short memory or not seen the first 10 min of the game?
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:25 JustPassingBy wrote: What a throw, why did Shuttle try to engage the MSC with only marines when he knows that oracles are out???
Well he needed to secure his raxes, so the oracles wouldnt just slaughter everything that came out. Since he didn't do that right off the bat, he was kinda fucked anyway. He just needed to put that turret near them like Apollo said, skip the 2nd bunker for a bit and throw the 3rd turret rather.
On June 27 2013 02:24 TheDwf wrote: Horrible reaction from Shuttle. C'mon, you HAVE to build a Turret near your rax.
I dont think that would have helped. It was very smart from mc to bait out marines with the 2 oracles and mamacore.
But it was also stupid from Shuttle to fall into this trap; he should just know there are Oracles out there ready for Marine hunting. With a Turret near his production his stim is protected and he doesn't need to pull back Marines in his main, so his defence at the front stays solid.
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
too much firepower!
Somehow someway.
yeah, but at least those kinda mean something. he says "to kick things off here" when nothing whatsoever is actually being begun/started. he uses it purely as a filler phrase and it annoys the shit out of me to kick things off here
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:27 MosART wrote: hahahaa. LOL! MC! Shuttle shoulda watch good K-terran and build another turret near his barracks, and leave all his army and SCVs at the ramp.
normally every korean terran builds the depot in corner there and every oracle toss can grab it and supply block the terran that way, they also don't get turrets on the racks. But the reason is simple, korean protoss don't use oracles as bunker busters, some even still go for voids lol.
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
too much firepower!
Somehow someway.
yeah, but at least those kinda mean something. he says "to kick things off here" when nothing whatsoever is actually being begun/started. he uses it purely as a filler phrase and it annoys the shit out of me to kick things off here
there are only so many different ways you can say the same thing. every caster has certain phrases they overuse, honestly whether it annoys you is up to your personal preference
i love husky, for example, but every time i hear him say a version of "and it does look like we are going to be seeing....." i want to kill myself
On June 27 2013 02:26 ReMinD_ wrote: If this was WCS KR, Stephano or MC would be out.
Troll harder please Europeans have done fine vs Koreans lately.
What? He stated a fact.
In what way is it a fact? Europeans have STILL done fine vs Koreans lately, and MC is always hit or miss. What are you basing this on? All evidence tends to indicate that stephano still holds his own wuite easily (barring being drunk).
Again, blindly hating on foreigners (and MC?) for no reason. I suppose you think MVP would have been out of wcs kr too?
On June 27 2013 02:22 TheDwf wrote: 4g Oracles I guess.
The new, faster, three gate immortal bust?
I think it's easier to defend, Protoss can't have many Sentries (0 or 1-2 generally) so you can actually repair your bunkers.
True, but can the oracle distract marines (because it takes so many to kill it) more efficiently?
If you have one Turret per mineral line + one near your rax it's OK.
Okay. I'm personally surprised we haven't seen a three gate immortal bust in OSL yet. I really like when people bring back old builds because the metagame has shifted significantly enough that they might work. I think it would be really nice in the Bo1.
On June 27 2013 02:26 ReMinD_ wrote: If this was WCS KR, Stephano or MC would be out.
Troll harder please Europeans have done fine vs Koreans lately.
What? He stated a fact.
In what way is it a fact? Europeans have STILL done fine vs Koreans lately, and MC is always hit or miss. What are you basing this on? All evidence tends to indicate that stephano still holds his own wuite easily (barring being drunk).
Again, blindly hating on foreigners (and MC?) for no reason. I suppose you think MVP would have been out of wcs kr too?
On June 27 2013 02:22 TheDwf wrote: 4g Oracles I guess.
The new, faster, three gate immortal bust?
I think it's easier to defend, Protoss can't have many Sentries (0 or 1-2 generally) so you can actually repair your bunkers.
True, but can the oracle distract marines (because it takes so many to kill it) more efficiently?
If you have one Turret per mineral line + one near your rax it's OK.
Okay. I'm personally surprised we haven't seen a three gate immortal bust in OSL yet. I really like when people bring back old builds because the metagame has shifted significantly enough that they might work. I think it would be really nice in the Bo1.
On June 27 2013 02:36 Glubschauge wrote: what happens if you use the relevation spell on a marine and he gets loaded into a medivac? do you see the medivac then?
I think I saw this once, and I think you lose the vision, but don't quote me on this.
On June 27 2013 02:22 TheDwf wrote: 4g Oracles I guess.
The new, faster, three gate immortal bust?
I think it's easier to defend, Protoss can't have many Sentries (0 or 1-2 generally) so you can actually repair your bunkers.
True, but can the oracle distract marines (because it takes so many to kill it) more efficiently?
If you have one Turret per mineral line + one near your rax it's OK.
Okay. I'm personally surprised we haven't seen a three gate immortal bust in OSL yet. I really like when people bring back old builds because the metagame has shifted significantly enough that they might work. I think it would be really nice in the Bo1.
Perhaps tomorrow poor SuperNova will face it. );
That would require one of those three monsters to lack confidence in their macro to all in SuperNova D:
On June 27 2013 02:26 ReMinD_ wrote: If this was WCS KR, Stephano or MC would be out.
Troll harder please Europeans have done fine vs Koreans lately.
What? He stated a fact.
In what way is it a fact? Europeans have STILL done fine vs Koreans lately, and MC is always hit or miss. What are you basing this on? All evidence tends to indicate that stephano still holds his own wuite easily (barring being drunk).
Again, blindly hating on foreigners (and MC?) for no reason. I suppose you think MVP would have been out of wcs kr too?
The fact is that WCS KR Ro32 is a Bo1, so MC and Stephano would be playing in the loser's match since they both lost the first game, thus one of them would be out.
On June 27 2013 02:26 ReMinD_ wrote: If this was WCS KR, Stephano or MC would be out.
Troll harder please Europeans have done fine vs Koreans lately.
What? He stated a fact.
In what way is it a fact? Europeans have STILL done fine vs Koreans lately, and MC is always hit or miss. What are you basing this on? All evidence tends to indicate that stephano still holds his own wuite easily (barring being drunk).
Again, blindly hating on foreigners (and MC?) for no reason. I suppose you think MVP would have been out of wcs kr too?
The fact is that WCS KR Ro32 is a Bo1, so MC and Stephano would be playing in the loser's match since they both lost the first game, thus one of them would be out.
Haha, it was a format comment and not a EU vs KR comment. Weird.
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:22 TheDwf wrote: 4g Oracles I guess.
The new, faster, three gate immortal bust?
I think it's easier to defend, Protoss can't have many Sentries (0 or 1-2 generally) so you can actually repair your bunkers.
True, but can the oracle distract marines (because it takes so many to kill it) more efficiently?
If you have one Turret per mineral line + one near your rax it's OK.
Okay. I'm personally surprised we haven't seen a three gate immortal bust in OSL yet. I really like when people bring back old builds because the metagame has shifted significantly enough that they might work. I think it would be really nice in the Bo1.
On June 27 2013 02:26 ReMinD_ wrote: If this was WCS KR, Stephano or MC would be out.
Troll harder please Europeans have done fine vs Koreans lately.
What? He stated a fact.
In what way is it a fact? Europeans have STILL done fine vs Koreans lately, and MC is always hit or miss. What are you basing this on? All evidence tends to indicate that stephano still holds his own wuite easily (barring being drunk).
Again, blindly hating on foreigners (and MC?) for no reason. I suppose you think MVP would have been out of wcs kr too?
I think you've missed the point. The OSL is Bo1.
yeah silly me. I'm not giving much thought to that, haven't been able to watch OSL cause of work, I'm still thinking like GSL and the like xD (plus I'm not thinking much about my responses cause I'm working now... )
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:36 Glubschauge wrote: what happens if you use the relevation spell on a marine and he gets loaded into a medivac? do you see the medivac then?
I think I saw this once, and I think you lose the vision, but don't quote me on this.
On June 27 2013 02:22 TheDwf wrote: 4g Oracles I guess.
The new, faster, three gate immortal bust?
I think it's easier to defend, Protoss can't have many Sentries (0 or 1-2 generally) so you can actually repair your bunkers.
True, but can the oracle distract marines (because it takes so many to kill it) more efficiently?
If you have one Turret per mineral line + one near your rax it's OK.
Okay. I'm personally surprised we haven't seen a three gate immortal bust in OSL yet. I really like when people bring back old builds because the metagame has shifted significantly enough that they might work. I think it would be really nice in the Bo1.
Perhaps tomorrow poor SuperNova will face it. );
That would require one of those three monsters to lack confidence in their macro to all in SuperNova D:
I wouldn't be surprised if one of them prepares some kind of all-in against him if they bank on PvP being more important to advance.
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
On June 27 2013 02:36 Glubschauge wrote: what happens if you use the relevation spell on a marine and he gets loaded into a medivac? do you see the medivac then?
I think I saw this once, and I think you lose the vision, but don't quote me on this.
On June 27 2013 02:37 TheDwf wrote:
On June 27 2013 02:35 AgentW wrote:
On June 27 2013 02:33 TheDwf wrote:
On June 27 2013 02:28 AgentW wrote:
On June 27 2013 02:26 TheDwf wrote:
On June 27 2013 02:23 AgentW wrote:
On June 27 2013 02:22 TheDwf wrote: 4g Oracles I guess.
The new, faster, three gate immortal bust?
I think it's easier to defend, Protoss can't have many Sentries (0 or 1-2 generally) so you can actually repair your bunkers.
True, but can the oracle distract marines (because it takes so many to kill it) more efficiently?
If you have one Turret per mineral line + one near your rax it's OK.
Okay. I'm personally surprised we haven't seen a three gate immortal bust in OSL yet. I really like when people bring back old builds because the metagame has shifted significantly enough that they might work. I think it would be really nice in the Bo1.
Perhaps tomorrow poor SuperNova will face it. );
That would require one of those three monsters to lack confidence in their macro to all in SuperNova D:
I wouldn't be surprised if one of them prepares some kind of all-in against him if they bank on PvP being more important to advance.
doesn't really matter what they do, the rules of OSL dictate that Supernova will advance in first place anyways
and i kinda hope that's gonna happen, even though i love all four players in that group >.<
On June 27 2013 02:22 Schelim wrote: Kaelaris has become a really good caster, but he really needs to eliminate "to kick things off here". he says that all the damn time.
Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
And perhaps they would have lost the two following games in a BO5, then won the last two in a BO7.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
And perhaps they would have lost the two following games in a BO5, then won the last two in a BO7.
That's why the BO21 is the most fair way to run a tournament.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two.
honestly the only reason to ever have a best of one is if it's for qualifiers or something at a lower level of play and you don't want to host a huge volume of games for less notable players. if the players are evenly matched, best of one is literally making it a coinflip
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
You don't prepare the same way for a Bo1 or a Bo3. There is no way of knowing if MC and Stephano would have lost the first game if it was a Bo1 rather than a Bo3.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
You don't prepare the same way for a Bo1 or a Bo3. There is no way of knowing if MC and Stephano would have lost the first game if it was a Bo1 rather than a Bo3.
pretty sure he was just commenting on the format, not trying to claim he knows what happens in alternate metaphysical universes
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
And SjoW won the next two vs Life after being down 1-0. Your point?
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
And perhaps they would have lost the two following games in a BO5, then won the last two in a BO7.
That's why the BO21 is the most fair way to run a tournament.
Hmm...I feel like that's still inferior to a Bo23 format.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
And perhaps they would have lost the two following games in a BO5, then won the last two in a BO7.
That's why the BO21 is the most fair way to run a tournament.
Hmm...I feel like that's still inferior to a Bo23 format.
Well you know how to create a format. You choose which player deserves to advance before the game starts, and then you have them play a best of *N until the facts fit the truth.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two.
honestly the only reason to ever have a best of one is if it's for qualifiers or something at a lower level of play and you don't want to host a huge volume of games for less notable players. if the players are evenly matched, best of one is literally making it a coinflip
Nah, they would still play the game instead of flipping a coin for it. And the length of a series wouldn't matter if they were that evenly matched. :p
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
Good :D
OSL should seriously consider a bo249.
That *might* upset a little bit their schedule.
Not if you just simulate it with a statistically weighted coin flip. Takes less than a second to get a winner. And of course the weights would be determined by a "who is the better player" poll.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
Good :D
OSL should seriously consider a bo249.
That *might* upset a little bit their schedule.
Not to mention that it just wouldn't be as accurate as a Bo511.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two. I actually like both these players.
Good :D
OSL should seriously consider a bo249.
That *might* upset a little bit their schedule.
Not if you just simulate it with a statistically weighted coin flip. Takes less than a second to get a winner. And of course the weights would be determined by a "who is the better player" poll.
They should also allow people to vote for players they want in the next OSL, and I vote that Sjow is put on the list.
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two.
honestly the only reason to ever have a best of one is if it's for qualifiers or something at a lower level of play and you don't want to host a huge volume of games for less notable players. if the players are evenly matched, best of one is literally making it a coinflip
Nah, they would still play the game instead of flipping a coin for it. And the length of a series wouldn't matter if they were that evenly matched. :p
that's not true. statistically, the more games you play, the more reliable the result is. i mean evenly matched in terms of talent, but one player still has to perform better, and performing better over 3 games is more related to talent than performing better for 1 game
On June 27 2013 02:43 ReMinD_ wrote: Yeah guys, I was referring to WCS KR being BO1 which sucks. Both MC and Stephano lost their first game only to win the next two.
honestly the only reason to ever have a best of one is if it's for qualifiers or something at a lower level of play and you don't want to host a huge volume of games for less notable players. if the players are evenly matched, best of one is literally making it a coinflip
Nah, they would still play the game instead of flipping a coin for it. And the length of a series wouldn't matter if they were that evenly matched. :p
that's not true. statistically, the more games you play, the more reliable the result is. i mean evenly matched in terms of talent, but one player still has to perform better, and performing better over 3 games is more related to talent than performing better for 1 game
On June 27 2013 03:10 theodorus12 wrote: Blizzard sure did a great job with the Swarmhosts, they make for really interesting and dynamic matches, almost as good as gglords....
still protoss got a better chance to win. Like with mass warp ins by warpprims!
I don't know what their obsession over muta switches and broodlords are.. it's like they've never watched Stephano play a ZVP. This is the unit comp he wants, nothing else. No need to transition ever
On June 27 2013 03:10 theodorus12 wrote: Blizzard sure did a great job with the Swarmhosts, they make for really interesting and dynamic matches, almost as good as gglords....
At least stephano warned us for this:
EGStephano @EGStephanoRC 45m I don't know which one i want to play. If its mc it'll be rather boring to watch. If its shuttle its gonna be very messy. Hard to micro
On June 27 2013 03:10 theodorus12 wrote: Blizzard sure did a great job with the Swarmhosts, they make for really interesting and dynamic matches, almost as good as gglords....
still protoss got a better chance to win. Like with mass warp ins by warpprims!
I'm not saying Swarmhosts are op or anything, but it's just so incredibly boring to watch
I find it funny that all the community agreed that 22 range on tempest was stupid broken but nobody said a word about the 50ish range on the swarmhosts
On June 27 2013 03:10 theodorus12 wrote: Blizzard sure did a great job with the Swarmhosts, they make for really interesting and dynamic matches, almost as good as gglords....
"Swarm Host that are designed to help Zerg players capitalise on their advantage mid-game" Dustin Browder
On June 27 2013 03:13 Salteador Neo wrote: I find it funny that all the community agreed that 22 range on tempest was stupid broken but nobody said a word about the 50ish range on the swarmhosts
hahaha you made me laugh i remember white ra streaming during beta, this was such a joke 22 range hahaha
On June 27 2013 03:10 theodorus12 wrote: Blizzard sure did a great job with the Swarmhosts, they make for really interesting and dynamic matches, almost as good as gglords....
still protoss got a better chance to win. Like with mass warp ins by warpprims!
I'm not saying Swarmhosts are op or anything, but it's just so incredibly boring to watch
They are completely unlike broodlords because while they force long games, it's back and forth position battles rather than just sitting there
MCs lack of oracles and general macro skill kinda of disappoints me (no warp prism, slow fourth and fifth, could have done a lot more damage with the void rays as well)
On June 27 2013 03:10 theodorus12 wrote: Blizzard sure did a great job with the Swarmhosts, they make for really interesting and dynamic matches, almost as good as gglords....
still protoss got a better chance to win. Like with mass warp ins by warpprims!
I'm not saying Swarmhosts are op or anything, but it's just so incredibly boring to watch
They are completely unlike broodlords because while they force long games, it's back and forth position battles rather than just sitting there
Back and forth as in the protoss is on a timer, and can only fight in between locust cycles.
On June 27 2013 03:17 TheDougler wrote: This is the first time I've encountered the horrible video stuttering. is there anything to do about it, or just ride it out?
There were a few things that MC could have done to give himself a better shot.
1) Warp prism harass (before Zerg gets his 7k minerals and 3k gas, by which time it's too late) 2) Better void ray recall (MC tried and failed. But I think that the void ray base snipe is crucial to the sky toss build.) 3) Dark templars. They are the best at harassing and at one point MC was floating a lot of resources.
edit: we've been seeing ghosts in suicide medivacs for EMP, maybe we could see templars in suicide prisms for storm?
On June 27 2013 03:16 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Did stephano ever lose with this style vs protoss?
He lost one game with this compo against Babyknight on Akilon. But it was an unimportant match and he did not play 100%. In a later game (that mattered) he destroyed Babyknight with it
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Not if you are smart enough to put spines and spores everywhere
it doesn't work like that lol. static defense doesn't scale against the armies you face at the swarm host stage of the game. it doesn't have to be a drop in your mineral lines either, they can drop straight on the swarm hosts, flank around and drop behind them when the locusts pop, etc. terran has too much mobility to lose to SH. it's only zvp metagame because protoss is the slow race
swarm hosts against terran isn't impossible, it's just so much easier for a terran to counter, so why would you do it
On June 27 2013 03:16 Umpteen wrote: Spoon Terran, meet Tweezer Zerg.
LOL beautiful.
Hope MC can find a way to overcome this, but it seems like it'll take a while for toss to figure out. And then if he tries a 2 base all-in, everyone will just say MC hasn't changed in years and blame him for playing a stupid style T_T tbh though best shot at this point would probably just to do a 7 gate immo all-in or gateway all-in like stardust, unless he can figure out how to beat this style really quickly =/
I think warp prisms would help a lot, but stephano is smart, he's decked his bases with spores and spines so warping in units, even dts, probably won't work.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano in the end, more than his bank. So, it would give incentive to not do random things.
Honestly, this would cost only 100 minerals per wave. Nothing groundbreaking, but something to keep Zerg in check from doing stupid 1 hour long snoozefest.
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
Well, we do all remember BL vs BL fights fondly, I imagine.
On June 27 2013 03:18 gobbledydook wrote: There were a few things that MC could have done to give himself a better shot.
1) Warp prism harass (before Zerg gets his 7k minerals and 3k gas, by which time it's too late) 2) Better void ray recall (MC tried and failed. But I think that the void ray base snipe is crucial to the sky toss build.) 3) Dark templars. They are the best at harassing and at one point MC was floating a lot of resources.
edit: we've been seeing ghosts in suicide medivacs for EMP, maybe we could see templars in suicide prisms for storm?
I agree with 1 and 2, but 3 isn't an option. He forced a lot of spores, so DTs would have been a waste of recources
On June 27 2013 03:18 gobbledydook wrote: There were a few things that MC could have done to give himself a better shot.
1) Warp prism harass (before Zerg gets his 7k minerals and 3k gas, by which time it's too late) 2) Better void ray recall (MC tried and failed. But I think that the void ray base snipe is crucial to the sky toss build.) 3) Dark templars. They are the best at harassing and at one point MC was floating a lot of resources.
The amount of spines and spores lategame pretty much eliminate those options (1 and 3)
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
terran has hellbats, thats better than free units. protoss? give us hellbats too
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
terran has hellbats, thats better than free units. protoss? give us hellbats too
On June 27 2013 03:18 gobbledydook wrote: There were a few things that MC could have done to give himself a better shot.
1) Warp prism harass (before Zerg gets his 7k minerals and 3k gas, by which time it's too late) 2) Better void ray recall (MC tried and failed. But I think that the void ray base snipe is crucial to the sky toss build.) 3) Dark templars. They are the best at harassing and at one point MC was floating a lot of resources.
The amount of spines and spores lategame pretty much eliminate those options (1 and 3)
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
terran has hellbats, thats better than free units. protoss? give us hellbats too
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
terran has hellbats, thats better than free units. protoss? give us hellbats too
Only if terran gets colossi.
I'd gladly trade colossi for hellbats.
warped hellbats with charge. Now it would be cool.
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
In the process of attempting to resurrect my stream, I noticed the embedded link on TL actually has mouzKaelaris in the URL. Did they just rename his stream and use it?
I don't know why Tosses ever stopped doing double speed prism harass against Zerg while turtling/sniping bases with main army. That tears turtling Zergs apart because 3/3 chargelots snipe a hatch faster than static defense can kill them.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
if there's a design flaw, it's that protoss doesn't have the mobility to flank and get around both swarm hosts, mass static D and hydras/corruptors/whatever all at the same time, but i personally feel like that's just a metagame flaw right now
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
terran has hellbats, thats better than free units. protoss? give us hellbats too
Only if terran gets colossi.
I'd gladly trade colossi for hellbats.
Now I'm imagining MMM + colossi against a protoss HT-based army with a few hellbats tanking.
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
Well, they can't really because of the dynamic of TvZ. While you're getting the minerals and gas to get those billion static defence's and SH's you're going to get dropped and take damage that will snowball into your economy.
I'm not saying it hasn't got a place in TvZ, maybe there are cool and interesting timings with it but I can't see it being a staple of TvZ.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
Then they need to give zerg more splash damage
Yes, infestor fungal, banelings banelings banelings splash, muta bounce damage and broodlords+swarm hosts infinity of minions is not enough. I say roaches spitting to 10 enemies at once would be a start to balance it all.
On June 27 2013 03:19 Aquila- wrote: They need to give Protoss and Terran a unit that produces free units in order to combat Zergs free units. Yes I am genius.
terran has hellbats, thats better than free units. protoss? give us hellbats too
Only if terran gets colossi.
I'd gladly trade colossi for hellbats.
warped hellbats with charge. Now it would be cool.
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
Well, they can't really because of the dynamic of TvZ. While you're getting the minerals and gas to get those billion static defence's and SH's you're going to get dropped and take damage that will snowball into your economy.
I'm not saying it hasn't got a place in TvZ, maybe there are cool and interesting timings with it but I can't see it being a staple of TvZ.
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
Imagine a siege tank that can be blocked by shooting down the shells. Swarm Hosts are essentially that, but slowed down.
On June 27 2013 03:28 InvictusRage wrote: What happened in game 2? I never got the stream back up before the game ended.
Looked like Stephano traded positive with a hydra-ish army (I caught the end of this fight) vs gateway units as MC takes his third. Stephano followed it up with muta ball towards undefended natural with ling heavy army assaulting MC's ground army near the third.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
well, that's true, but it's the only way swarm host design can work, unless you were to change locusts into something like a seeker missile
i see the source of frustration with pvz swarm hosts, but to me it's similar to widow mines in zvt. when i first started playing against widow mines, in my head i was like "QQ terran is getting free shots on my army QQ", but after i settled down and practiced, it became something manageable
both units might still be bad design, they might not, but it's a very fine line they tread between being innovative and just adding crappy concepts
Stephano killed all Pheonix + Mothership Core while assaulting 3rd base. Then did a Mutalisk & Zergling Switch. Assaulted the second base with mutalisk while the zergling were in between 2nd and 3rd base (blocking the stalkers) ... MC was still fully walled.. no escape for probes.. no recall possible since mothership core was down.. gg
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
Imagine a siege tank that can be blocked by shooting down the shells. Swarm Hosts are essentially that, but slowed down.
They have a much, much, much higher effective range though.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
well, that's true, but it's the only way swarm host design can work, unless you were to change locusts into something like a seeker missile
i see the source of frustration with pvz swarm hosts, but to me it's similar to widow mines in zvt. when i first started playing against widow mines, in my head i was like "QQ terran is getting free shots on my army QQ", but after i settled down and practiced, it became something manageable
both units might still be bad design, they might not, but it's a very fine line they tread between being innovative and just adding crappy concepts
The swarm host is the kind of unit which is either completely useless or overpowered depending on the scenario. Lots of zergs have died trying to use swarm hosts against their opponents, but when it actually works it looks like the opponent never had a chance against the never ending swarm.
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game.
my point was that if drones were produced the way probes and SCVs are, creating static d wouldn't limit your macro the way it currently does, so it would be possible to have static d earlier
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game.
my point was that if drones were produced the way probes and SCVs are, creating static d wouldn't limit your macro the way it currently does, so it would be possible to have static d earlier
By the time you have the money to mass static defense, larva isn't your main concern. Zergs tend to slack on injecting in the late game anyway because they have more than enough larvae.
On June 27 2013 03:20 fezvez wrote: My god, this is terrible to watch.
Stephano had roughly 20 swarm hosts from 15:00 until the end (35:00?). So during 20 minutes, he produced roughly 2000 locusts (1920 if you want to be precise)
It has been suggested before, but I agree with the idea that a swarm host uses 5 minerals to pop locusts. This would have been 5k less for Stephano, more than his bank.
locusts are only units in the technical sense of the word, what they really are is an attack. swarm hosts are a siege unit, and just like tanks, you can't engage them by running straight at them. also, a lot of the locusts he "produced" didn't do anything
i see what you're saying, but i think it's worth pointing out that an attack doesn't have hitpoints, but a locust does. in other words, it's not only an attack, it's also a thing that soaks up damage.
in other news, stream comes back into gg.
well played Stephano!
well, that's true, but it's the only way swarm host design can work, unless you were to change locusts into something like a seeker missile
i see the source of frustration with pvz swarm hosts, but to me it's similar to widow mines in zvt. when i first started playing against widow mines, in my head i was like "QQ terran is getting free shots on my army QQ", but after i settled down and practiced, it became something manageable
both units might still be bad design, they might not, but it's a very fine line they tread between being innovative and just adding crappy concepts
The swarm host is the kind of unit which is either completely useless or overpowered depending on the scenario. Lots of zergs have died trying to use swarm hosts against their opponents, but when it actually works it looks like the opponent never had a chance against the never ending swarm.
i really think the issue is not with swarm hosts but that the combination of swarm host + creep spread + strategic static D is abusive. and also the fact that there isn't currently a meta for small numbers of swarm hosts (which is likely because they just aren't effective in small numbers)
Random musing while we wait for the match to pick up speed. It is possible to have a 4-10 map score and get into premier league. If you lose both your premier matches 0-2, lose your challenger match 0-2 an lose first group match 0-2 before winning loser + final 2-1 you'll be in premier league with a sub 50% win rate that season.
On June 27 2013 03:13 ref4 wrote: why don't zergs use swarmhost vs. bio terran? they're sooooooo good
Because the bio picks up and speeds out of there and drops your bases?
Zergs can just build a billion static defenses and be drop-proof
you speak as if it doesn't cost money.
Terran will be dropping you constantly, way before you have money for 30 spine crawlers and 10 spores while having a maxed army and decent bank.
minerals for static d isn't an issue for zerg, but losing drones is. zerg doesn't produce drones from the hatchery, so they can't be droning and building army simultaneously. otherwise, yeah, zergs would literally make static D all game long and there would be no reason not to
I guess you don't play zerg because any decent zerg knows that terran can trade so well that you will not have enough resources to get static defense during the mid game.
my point was that if drones were produced the way probes and SCVs are, creating static d wouldn't limit your macro the way it currently does, so it would be possible to have static d earlier
By the time you have the money to mass static defense, larva isn't your main concern. Zergs tend to slack on injecting in the late game anyway because they have more than enough larvae.
larvae are always a concern and if you waste them at any stage of the game it can bite you in the ass
"Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote: I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves.
What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O
I don't want to stoop to balance whine, but I feel like he sort of just rode the metagame into the success that he actually managed to achieve. I've always found his play to be really boring, and at his height he was like a EU MVP.Sniper.
On June 27 2013 03:41 Eurekastreet wrote: "Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote: I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves.
What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O
I don't want to stoop to balance whine, but I feel like he sort of just rode the metagame into the success that he actually managed to achieve. I've always found his play to be really boring, and at his height he was like a EU MVP.Sniper.
I've always seen sortof more akin to EU sniper, maybe slivko can be an EU nakseo?
On June 27 2013 03:41 Eurekastreet wrote: "Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
Ravens are better, but the big reason is medivac boost, BL/infestor is just too immobile to deal with bio these days.
On June 27 2013 03:43 Schelim wrote: Apollo's combination of being a fucking badass analyst and his complete confidence in being a fucking badass analyst is so impressive
Obligatory "He's building 4 raxes, he's going mech" quote.
On June 27 2013 03:41 Eurekastreet wrote: "Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
bl+infestor is way too slow against speedvacs, infestors got nerfed, HSM is better, vikings/ravens benefit from ship armor.
On June 27 2013 03:39 packrat386 wrote: I hope shuttle can kill slivko. That guy really just gets on my nerves.
What reason would anyone have to hate on Slivko? o_O
I don't want to stoop to balance whine, but I feel like he sort of just rode the metagame into the success that he actually managed to achieve. I've always found his play to be really boring, and at his height he was like a EU MVP.Sniper.
I've always seen sortof more akin to EU sniper, maybe slivko can be an EU nakseo?
On June 27 2013 03:41 Eurekastreet wrote: "Infestor + broodlords aren't as good as in Wings of Liberty" As a protoss I never cared to bother about it, but why is that ? Except for hellbats - which I don't see playing such a big role in the late game - why would it be so different in Hots ?
bl+infestor is way too slow against speedvacs, infestors got nerfed, HSM is better, vikings/ravens benefit from ship armor.
Yeah, fungal doesn't do bonus to armored any more, so they take forever to kill vikings.
On June 27 2013 03:53 ref4 wrote: zergs should just go mass roach hydra they seemed to work well for tefel yesterday (the 2nd game not the first game vs mvp)
The only problem with mass roach hydra is that there is a timer on it. If you can't gain a big advantage in your first attack you are pretty much playing from behind, but yeah it's worth a try.
On June 27 2013 03:56 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 0 Map is Newkirk
Slivko is at the bot left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly yet
1:00 Supply depot at the ramp to wall in
2:00 hatch first for slivko cc first on the low ground for shuttle quick spawning pool after with no gas
3:00 gas starts after the OL comes in and will see the gas for shuttle
4:00 bunker at the ramp fact coming down for shuttle slivko pulls out of gas
5:00 no third yet for slivko 3rd CC goes down for shuttle now the third is put down for slivko
6:00 roach warren and second gas go down for slivko terran getting marauders stim on the way 4 hellions move out
7:00 4 hellions going to the 3rd no drones there several roaches coming 1 evolution chamber and a bane nest
8:00 hellions are roasting creep no hellbats on the way +1 carapace for the zerg 8 hellions sharking around
9:00 bane and roach speed are started more OLs and roaches on the way one overseer on the way lots of maraders out for shuttle shuttle adding reactors
10:00 Overseer scouts the base of shuttle slivko taking a 4th slivko at 142 supply overseer is killed before scouting again
11:00 72 drones roaches moving out across the map the roaches get to the bunkers at the 3rd but do nothing slivko is making 20 banes
12:00 slivko going for a big flank here it all comes the banelings connect with everything really well all of shuttles stuff is gone the main wall blows SCVs are fighting roaches
On June 27 2013 03:56 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 0 Map is Newkirk
Slivko is at the bot left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly yet
1:00 Supply depot at the ramp to wall in
2:00 hatch first for slivko cc first on the low ground for shuttle quick spawning pool after with no gas
3:00 gas starts after the OL comes in and will see the gas for shuttle
4:00 bunker at the ramp fact coming down for shuttle slivko pulls out of gas
5:00 no third yet for slivko 3rd CC goes down for shuttle now the third is put down for slivko
6:00 roach warren and second gas go down for slivko terran getting marauders stim on the way 4 hellions move out
7:00 4 hellions going to the 3rd no drones there several roaches coming 1 evolution chamber and a bane nest
8:00 hellions are roasting creep no hellbats on the way +1 carapace for the zerg 8 hellions sharking around
9:00 bane and roach speed are started more OLs and roaches on the way one overseer on the way lots of maraders out for shuttle shuttle adding reactors
10:00 Overseer scouts the base of shuttle slivko taking a 4th slivko at 142 supply overseer is killed before scouting again
11:00 72 drones roaches moving out across the map the roaches get to the bunkers at the 3rd but do nothing slivko is making 20 banes
12:00 slivko going for a big flank here it all comes the banelings connect with everything really well all of shuttles stuff is gone the main wall blows SCVs are fighting roaches
13:00 the wall goes down again shuttle is horribly supply blocked drop is killing the 3rd of slivko
14:00 the third hatch goes down... shuttle is trying to camp out in his nat there is a 4th now 3rd for slivko
15:00 the drop in the main gets cleaned up slivko still supply blocked double drop coming slivko goes in again there are so many banes its all in the main base of shuttle
16:00 the SCVs are mostly dead for slivko this game is so over never mind? drop in the main kills the whole thing essentially shuttle has 40 supply though
On June 27 2013 03:56 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 0 Map is Newkirk
Slivko is at the bot left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly yet
1:00 Supply depot at the ramp to wall in
2:00 hatch first for slivko cc first on the low ground for shuttle quick spawning pool after with no gas
3:00 gas starts after the OL comes in and will see the gas for shuttle
4:00 bunker at the ramp fact coming down for shuttle slivko pulls out of gas
5:00 no third yet for slivko 3rd CC goes down for shuttle now the third is put down for slivko
6:00 roach warren and second gas go down for slivko terran getting marauders stim on the way 4 hellions move out
7:00 4 hellions going to the 3rd no drones there several roaches coming 1 evolution chamber and a bane nest
8:00 hellions are roasting creep no hellbats on the way +1 carapace for the zerg 8 hellions sharking around
9:00 bane and roach speed are started more OLs and roaches on the way one overseer on the way lots of maraders out for shuttle shuttle adding reactors
10:00 Overseer scouts the base of shuttle slivko taking a 4th slivko at 142 supply overseer is killed before scouting again
11:00 72 drones roaches moving out across the map the roaches get to the bunkers at the 3rd but do nothing slivko is making 20 banes
12:00 slivko going for a big flank here it all comes the banelings connect with everything really well all of shuttles stuff is gone the main wall blows SCVs are fighting roaches
13:00 the wall goes down again shuttle is horribly supply blocked drop is killing the 3rd of slivko
14:00 the third hatch goes down... shuttle is trying to camp out in his nat there is a 4th now 3rd for slivko
15:00 the drop in the main gets cleaned up slivko still supply blocked double drop coming slivko goes in again there are so many banes its all in the main base of shuttle
16:00 the SCVs are mostly dead for slivko this game is so over never mind? drop in the main kills the whole thing essentially shuttle has 40 supply though
17:00 shuttle on 5 SCVs slivko has a lot of lings but lost the bane nest
18:00 slivko is expanding quite a bit the spawning pool is bleeing out slivko has about a 100 supply lead
On June 27 2013 03:56 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 0 Map is Newkirk
Slivko is at the bot left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly yet
1:00 Supply depot at the ramp to wall in
2:00 hatch first for slivko cc first on the low ground for shuttle quick spawning pool after with no gas
3:00 gas starts after the OL comes in and will see the gas for shuttle
4:00 bunker at the ramp fact coming down for shuttle slivko pulls out of gas
5:00 no third yet for slivko 3rd CC goes down for shuttle now the third is put down for slivko
6:00 roach warren and second gas go down for slivko terran getting marauders stim on the way 4 hellions move out
7:00 4 hellions going to the 3rd no drones there several roaches coming 1 evolution chamber and a bane nest
8:00 hellions are roasting creep no hellbats on the way +1 carapace for the zerg 8 hellions sharking around
9:00 bane and roach speed are started more OLs and roaches on the way one overseer on the way lots of maraders out for shuttle shuttle adding reactors
10:00 Overseer scouts the base of shuttle slivko taking a 4th slivko at 142 supply overseer is killed before scouting again
11:00 72 drones roaches moving out across the map the roaches get to the bunkers at the 3rd but do nothing slivko is making 20 banes
12:00 slivko going for a big flank here it all comes the banelings connect with everything really well all of shuttles stuff is gone the main wall blows SCVs are fighting roaches
13:00 the wall goes down again shuttle is horribly supply blocked drop is killing the 3rd of slivko
14:00 the third hatch goes down... shuttle is trying to camp out in his nat there is a 4th now 3rd for slivko
15:00 the drop in the main gets cleaned up slivko still supply blocked double drop coming slivko goes in again there are so many banes its all in the main base of shuttle
16:00 the SCVs are mostly dead for slivko this game is so over never mind? drop in the main kills the whole thing essentially shuttle has 40 supply though
17:00 shuttle on 5 SCVs slivko has a lot of lings but lost the bane nest
18:00 slivko is expanding quite a bit the spawning pool is bleeing out slivko has about a 100 supply lead
stream is dead.... (so is shuttle)
21:00 And we're back slivko is supply blocked shuttle now has 70 supply and is still in the game hes moving across the map there is a tank out 30 banelings are out though
22 banes morphing. slivko takes a shitty fight. shuttle might be able to do something. sets up a siege position where newkirk city would have the xel naga tower and shit happens and terran loses :D
On June 27 2013 03:56 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 0 Map is Newkirk
Slivko is at the bot left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly yet
1:00 Supply depot at the ramp to wall in
2:00 hatch first for slivko cc first on the low ground for shuttle quick spawning pool after with no gas
3:00 gas starts after the OL comes in and will see the gas for shuttle
4:00 bunker at the ramp fact coming down for shuttle slivko pulls out of gas
5:00 no third yet for slivko 3rd CC goes down for shuttle now the third is put down for slivko
6:00 roach warren and second gas go down for slivko terran getting marauders stim on the way 4 hellions move out
7:00 4 hellions going to the 3rd no drones there several roaches coming 1 evolution chamber and a bane nest
8:00 hellions are roasting creep no hellbats on the way +1 carapace for the zerg 8 hellions sharking around
9:00 bane and roach speed are started more OLs and roaches on the way one overseer on the way lots of maraders out for shuttle shuttle adding reactors
10:00 Overseer scouts the base of shuttle slivko taking a 4th slivko at 142 supply overseer is killed before scouting again
11:00 72 drones roaches moving out across the map the roaches get to the bunkers at the 3rd but do nothing slivko is making 20 banes
12:00 slivko going for a big flank here it all comes the banelings connect with everything really well all of shuttles stuff is gone the main wall blows SCVs are fighting roaches
13:00 the wall goes down again shuttle is horribly supply blocked drop is killing the 3rd of slivko
14:00 the third hatch goes down... shuttle is trying to camp out in his nat there is a 4th now 3rd for slivko
15:00 the drop in the main gets cleaned up slivko still supply blocked double drop coming slivko goes in again there are so many banes its all in the main base of shuttle
16:00 the SCVs are mostly dead for slivko this game is so over never mind? drop in the main kills the whole thing essentially shuttle has 40 supply though
17:00 shuttle on 5 SCVs slivko has a lot of lings but lost the bane nest
18:00 slivko is expanding quite a bit the spawning pool is bleeing out slivko has about a 100 supply lead
stream is dead.... (so is shuttle)
21:00 And we're back slivko is supply blocked shuttle now has 70 supply and is still in the game hes moving across the map there is a tank out 30 banelings are out though
22:00 slivko goes for a huge flank everything dies finally gg
On June 27 2013 04:10 Sewi wrote: 3 SCVs vs 3 base Zerg. Fantasy-GG-timing ?
Watch Mvp vs. Tefel and judge again.
just joking. Actually I think it's totally cool when players stay in the game and try everything they can. The most awesome comebacks wouldn't be possible without this mentality! And also, some people start playing really bad, not knowing how o finish a heavy turteling player, so it's worth a try at least
On June 27 2013 04:12 Heavenlee wrote: should've just massed more mines and marines, no joke. What does one tank do that 2 widow mines wouldn't have?
Its a lot more of an anchor vs banes.
How so? It probably got in one shot, at least widow mines could've gotten in two.
The banes can't afford to hit the tank since it takes so many to kill them. Also it can hit from a far longer range keeping the opponents army back.
I meant in the sense that he had one tank and pushing out instead of making mines. One tank is not going to keep 180 supply of zerg back, and even if it can shoot from a further distance it still got about one shot in.
On June 27 2013 04:12 Heavenlee wrote: should've just massed more mines and marines, no joke. What does one tank do that 2 widow mines wouldn't have?
Its a lot more of an anchor vs banes.
How so? It probably got in one shot, at least widow mines could've gotten in two.
The banes can't afford to hit the tank since it takes so many to kill them. Also it can hit from a far longer range keeping the opponents army back.
I meant in the sense that he had one tank and pushing out instead of making mines. One tank is not going to keep 180 supply of zerg back, and even if it can shoot from a further distance it still got about one shot in.
He was dead at this point anyway, the Tanks were needed much earlier to hold the first wave capitalizing on the fact the main overhangs the natural and the third.
On June 27 2013 04:12 Heavenlee wrote: should've just massed more mines and marines, no joke. What does one tank do that 2 widow mines wouldn't have?
Its a lot more of an anchor vs banes.
How so? It probably got in one shot, at least widow mines could've gotten in two.
The banes can't afford to hit the tank since it takes so many to kill them. Also it can hit from a far longer range keeping the opponents army back.
I meant in the sense that he had one tank and pushing out instead of making mines. One tank is not going to keep 180 supply of zerg back, and even if it can shoot from a further distance it still got about one shot in.
He was dead at this point anyway, the Tanks were needed much earlier to hold the first wave capitalizing on the fact the main overhangs the natural and the third.
I know...I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not talking about what he should've done earlier. Just a little comment where I was baffled by the thought process of putting your factory onto a tech lab and making one tank before pushing out.
On June 27 2013 04:12 Heavenlee wrote: should've just massed more mines and marines, no joke. What does one tank do that 2 widow mines wouldn't have?
Its a lot more of an anchor vs banes.
How so? It probably got in one shot, at least widow mines could've gotten in two.
The banes can't afford to hit the tank since it takes so many to kill them. Also it can hit from a far longer range keeping the opponents army back.
I meant in the sense that he had one tank and pushing out instead of making mines. One tank is not going to keep 180 supply of zerg back, and even if it can shoot from a further distance it still got about one shot in.
He was dead at this point anyway, the Tanks were needed much earlier to hold the first wave capitalizing on the fact the main overhangs the natural and the third.
I know...I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not talking about what he should've done earlier. Just a little comment where I was baffled by the thought process of putting your factory onto a tech lab and making one tank before pushing out.
On June 27 2013 04:12 Heavenlee wrote: should've just massed more mines and marines, no joke. What does one tank do that 2 widow mines wouldn't have?
Do something if the zerg player sends a roach alone, like Slivko did again and again.
Seriously, there was no way Mvp would have been that cost efficient yesterday if he had mines instead of tanks.
Do something with a single tank if a zerg player sends a roach alone ahead of his army before the engagement. You could put your window mine behind your army and pull back when the zerg fully engages, at least.
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
17:00 drops come out trying to do damage but both get shut down both players approaching max +3 attack, drilling claws, and concussive shells shuttle going for a fake drop? corrupters on the way
On June 27 2013 04:30 garbanzo wrote: "scv"? What does he mean by that?
Probably "sec"?
LOL that would be a funny typo. i was so confused there. i was actually wondering if he was trying to tell Shuttle some of his SCVs weren't mining or something.
maybe Slivko's house is burning down, i remember that happened during a war3 tournament match a long time ago. i forgot who it was though. pretty legit reason to postpone your match.
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
17:00 drops come out trying to do damage but both get shut down both players approaching max +3 attack, drilling claws, and concussive shells shuttle going for a fake drop? corrupters on the way
big problem for slivko I guess
18:00 both maxed, shuttle moving out 4 BLs morphing the 4th is being besiege 2x drop in the main and 3rd
19:00 roaches are killing a lot he sees the BLS and starts 3 SP's drop in the nat is killing a fair amount of stuff
20:00 slivko is still on 1-1 the potential 5th for slivko is killed
21:00 so many drops the third goes down and bio heading at the 4th shuttle is maxed some bio goes down outside the 4th
22:00 the main is about to get double dropped shuttle is still maxed triple drop to kill the drones at the third shuttle dropes the main again
Slivko just playing this exactly like he played WoL. Sitting back, getting picked apart by harassment but he doesn't care as long as he keeps adding on Brood Lords, even forgetting upgrades, playing like shit and just hoping he can win it purely through unit composition.
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
17:00 drops come out trying to do damage but both get shut down both players approaching max +3 attack, drilling claws, and concussive shells shuttle going for a fake drop? corrupters on the way
big problem for slivko I guess
18:00 both maxed, shuttle moving out 4 BLs morphing the 4th is being besiege 2x drop in the main and 3rd
19:00 roaches are killing a lot he sees the BLS and starts 3 SP's drop in the nat is killing a fair amount of stuff
20:00 slivko is still on 1-1 the potential 5th for slivko is killed
21:00 so many drops the third goes down and bio heading at the 4th shuttle is maxed some bio goes down outside the 4th
22:00 the main is about to get double dropped shuttle is still maxed triple drop to kill the drones at the third shuttle dropes the main again
23:00 a lot of bio goes down in the main the SCVs are being sacced shuttle is down in supply a bit
24:00 shuttle is getting a 5th base as well bio is all over the map trying to keep the BLs back tons of broods out now only 3 festors
25:00 19 corrupters are out 15 vikings and 2 ravens bio goes in ot the heavily saturated fifth but doesn't kill it all
26:00 shuttle is down at 189 but slivko has to stay back shuttle is basically just buidling only viking and suicide squads of bio
27:00 both players maxed 2 small bio armies look like they want to go for a flank raven upgrades otw bio army kills the 5th again
On June 27 2013 04:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Broodlords make widowmines so risky. Broodling nibbling at your marines followed by a mine to the face.
As Tanks say, "Collateral is my favorite kind of damage."
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
17:00 drops come out trying to do damage but both get shut down both players approaching max +3 attack, drilling claws, and concussive shells shuttle going for a fake drop? corrupters on the way
big problem for slivko I guess
18:00 both maxed, shuttle moving out 4 BLs morphing the 4th is being besiege 2x drop in the main and 3rd
19:00 roaches are killing a lot he sees the BLS and starts 3 SP's drop in the nat is killing a fair amount of stuff
20:00 slivko is still on 1-1 the potential 5th for slivko is killed
21:00 so many drops the third goes down and bio heading at the 4th shuttle is maxed some bio goes down outside the 4th
22:00 the main is about to get double dropped shuttle is still maxed triple drop to kill the drones at the third shuttle dropes the main again
23:00 a lot of bio goes down in the main the SCVs are being sacced shuttle is down in supply a bit
24:00 shuttle is getting a 5th base as well bio is all over the map trying to keep the BLs back tons of broods out now only 3 festors
25:00 19 corrupters are out 15 vikings and 2 ravens bio goes in ot the heavily saturated fifth but doesn't kill it all
26:00 shuttle is down at 189 but slivko has to stay back shuttle is basically just buidling only viking and suicide squads of bio
27:00 both players maxed 2 small bio armies look like they want to go for a flank raven upgrades otw bio army kills the 5th again
28:00 +3 air attack is up fusion core is coming down 3 CCs are coming for shuttle both still maxed
29:00 shuttle scanning the army big fight hunter seekers do a lot of damage vikings are trying to fight too many corrupters it seems queens with transfuse do a lot of damage
30:00 10 corrupters and 15 infestors on the way slivko is maxed now shuttle at 160 supply ghosts coming out now
31:00 slivko is pushing now hes coming in trying to get to the terran production
32:00 bio is killing bases but the BL festor is staying looks like a bizzare base race shuttle is sitting in his main trying to wait and build up slivko is losing a ton CCs are floating away for shuttle slivko is killing the nat, the 43d and 4th are down
You know, the comp might be the same, but Slivko is actually controlling this BL/Queen/Infestor army pretty well. I'm sure it'll still generate the same amount of hate, but this is at least a lot different from the days of chain fungal + a move.
Damn. What can you do against that zerg army? With old snipe broodlords would be threatened so they couldn't just protect infestors and queens. Now they can and ghosts cant even get close enough to emp all casters.... Even with solid seekers, it is not enough
On June 27 2013 04:47 ssxsilver wrote: You know, the comp might be the same, but Slivko is actually controlling this BL/Queen/Infestor army pretty well. I'm sure it'll still generate the same amount of hate, but this is at least a lot different from the days of chain fungal + a move.
Yes, not losing any unit to inoffensive burning buildings is very impressive indeed.
On June 27 2013 04:17 packrat386 wrote: Shuttle vs Slivko 1 - 1 Map is Star Station
Slivko is at the top left Shuttle is at the bot right
0:00 nothing silly happening yet
1:00 supply depot walling off drones and SCVs
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
17:00 drops come out trying to do damage but both get shut down both players approaching max +3 attack, drilling claws, and concussive shells shuttle going for a fake drop? corrupters on the way
big problem for slivko I guess
18:00 both maxed, shuttle moving out 4 BLs morphing the 4th is being besiege 2x drop in the main and 3rd
19:00 roaches are killing a lot he sees the BLS and starts 3 SP's drop in the nat is killing a fair amount of stuff
20:00 slivko is still on 1-1 the potential 5th for slivko is killed
21:00 so many drops the third goes down and bio heading at the 4th shuttle is maxed some bio goes down outside the 4th
22:00 the main is about to get double dropped shuttle is still maxed triple drop to kill the drones at the third shuttle dropes the main again
23:00 a lot of bio goes down in the main the SCVs are being sacced shuttle is down in supply a bit
24:00 shuttle is getting a 5th base as well bio is all over the map trying to keep the BLs back tons of broods out now only 3 festors
25:00 19 corrupters are out 15 vikings and 2 ravens bio goes in ot the heavily saturated fifth but doesn't kill it all
26:00 shuttle is down at 189 but slivko has to stay back shuttle is basically just buidling only viking and suicide squads of bio
27:00 both players maxed 2 small bio armies look like they want to go for a flank raven upgrades otw bio army kills the 5th again
28:00 +3 air attack is up fusion core is coming down 3 CCs are coming for shuttle both still maxed
29:00 shuttle scanning the army big fight hunter seekers do a lot of damage vikings are trying to fight too many corrupters it seems queens with transfuse do a lot of damage
30:00 10 corrupters and 15 infestors on the way slivko is maxed now shuttle at 160 supply ghosts coming out now
31:00 slivko is pushing now hes coming in trying to get to the terran production
32:00 bio is killing bases but the BL festor is staying looks like a bizzare base race shuttle is sitting in his main trying to wait and build up slivko is losing a ton CCs are floating away for shuttle slivko is killing the nat, the 43d and 4th are down
33:00 the army is now getting the main of shuttle slivko has nothing left really at home the army is so stron emps hit a lot of festors seeker missiles kill a lot of stuff
34:00 slivko is now in the main of shuttle the production is being seiged by slivko the seige of the main of slivko has stopped because all of his bio is dead
35:00 vikings and ravens escape lots of bases out on the map for shuttle slivko is killing the entire main slivko now has the 3:00 base
36:00 shuttle is at 100 supply to 142 lings kill a hidden base of shuttle slivko is making a lot of lings to kill the last stuff
37:00 shuttles buildings are buring down he's building marines the BLs are finding everything so many lings
38:00 shuttle is losing his last base stuff the are both very supply blocked now marines trying to kill the hatches at home marines are doing decent damage slivko finds the main base of shuttle
39:00 BLs are killing just about everything
40:00 so little supply for shuttle slivko is getting un supply blocked
41:00 shuttle is now trapped with his last buildings he tries to land a cc at the other side again no SCVs for shuttle
Props to Shuttle for trying ghosts though. Most everybody is too stubborn and would rather die horribly. If Shuttle's control was a bit better and wasn't in such a choked position (funneled behind 15 rax) he could have done it
I feel shuttle really should have been using his air army to harass slivko's air army. Several times the broods were quite a bit out of position. It would at least have been a shot, better than keeping your air army in the back and not doing anything with it.
On June 27 2013 04:47 Qwerty85 wrote: Damn. What can you do against that zerg army? With old snipe broodlords would be threatened so they couldn't just protect infestors and queens. Now they can and ghosts cant even get close enough to emp all casters.... Even with solid seekers, it is not enough
You get mass raven with viking. Honestly Shuttle never got a ton of ravens, his seeker missiles weren't as good as they could be. There was a lot he could have done. He also could have killed slivko before bl tech as well, but was too passive.
On June 27 2013 04:50 Sissors wrote: I feel shuttle really should have been using his air army to harass slivko's air army. Several times the broods were quite a bit out of position. It would at least have been a shot, better than keeping your air army in the back and not doing anything with it.
Probably afraid of being hit by a Fungal, especially with the delay.
On June 27 2013 04:47 ssxsilver wrote: You know, the comp might be the same, but Slivko is actually controlling this BL/Queen/Infestor army pretty well. I'm sure it'll still generate the same amount of hate, but this is at least a lot different from the days of chain fungal + a move.
Yes, not losing any unit to inoffensive burning buildings is very impressive indeed.
I mean the splits from HSM, the transfuses, and the HOTS fungal. Don't get me wrong, I hated this comp in WOL just as much as the next person, but it's not the same lackadaisical control I'm used to dreading.
On June 27 2013 04:47 stuchiu wrote: Do you believe in WOL?????
Do you believe that its best unit composition suddenly went to shit just because the other races got some new toys?
Protoss runs down this unit comp pretty easily. You can surprise Terran, but if they see it coming, a lot of ravens and vikings shut this down pretty decently.
Shuttle should have fought with his air army sooner; kill off broodlords, then clean up with his bio + landed vikings. But he lost all his bio already and it's too late.
On June 27 2013 04:50 Sissors wrote: I feel shuttle really should have been using his air army to harass slivko's air army. Several times the broods were quite a bit out of position. It would at least have been a shot, better than keeping your air army in the back and not doing anything with it.
Probably afraid of being hit by a Fungal, especially with the delay.
Yeah that is his reason. But staying back doesn't improve that situation. Look at the result of that fight he finally just had, it went fairly well for him. If he had done that before all his bases were destroyed it might have ended different.
2:00 hatch first for slivko CC first on the high ground spawning pool before gas rax forms a wall on the high ground
3:00 gas comes after for slivko shuttle also getting gas
4:00 bunker on the low ground factory going down speed on the way 1 drone only in the extractor
5:00 the lings try to runby but are stopped by the bunker armory and reactor on the way for shuttle lag....
6:00 we're back the 3rd blocked briefly by a bunker 3rd goes down for slivko hellions out on the map they get surrounded and one dies roach warren on the way for slivko more gas as well
7:00 more gas for slivko the first 2 medivacs are coming out hellbatzzz single evo and a bane nest coming down for slivko
8:00 4 hellbats otw to the main marauders coming out 3rd CC now for shuttle stim is on the way
9:00 hellbats kill 5 drones he loses a medivac though 6 OLs at once macro for slivko shuttle trying to do tri-prong hellbats OL chased away by viking
10:00 17 roaches otw hellbats drop in the nat they do almost nothing 2 hellbats walk into the third, but do very little
11:00 drops do a bit of damage in the main viking is hunting overlords lots of roaches headed for the third 80 army supply to 50, slivko leads
12:00 solid defense setup for shuttle slivkos banes kill several bunkers roaches are in the nat, but the bio is up the ramp roaches pushing up the main 16 SCVs go down slivko detonates on a lot of empty bunkers
13:00 shuttle pushes it all back 130 to 104 in slivko's favor 4th goes down for slivko
14:00 2-2 much fast for shuttle 2x drop coming to the main 3rd is up for shuttle 2nd fact is on the way for shuttle
15:00 pathogen glands otw engagement outside the 4th of slivko ends with a lot of mines going down main hatch for slivko gets killed by a drop 153 to 145 in slivkos favor
16:00 several banes morphing for slivko mutas coming out for slivko hes getting greater spire as well
17:00 drops come out trying to do damage but both get shut down both players approaching max +3 attack, drilling claws, and concussive shells shuttle going for a fake drop? corrupters on the way
big problem for slivko I guess
18:00 both maxed, shuttle moving out 4 BLs morphing the 4th is being besiege 2x drop in the main and 3rd
19:00 roaches are killing a lot he sees the BLS and starts 3 SP's drop in the nat is killing a fair amount of stuff
20:00 slivko is still on 1-1 the potential 5th for slivko is killed
21:00 so many drops the third goes down and bio heading at the 4th shuttle is maxed some bio goes down outside the 4th
22:00 the main is about to get double dropped shuttle is still maxed triple drop to kill the drones at the third shuttle dropes the main again
23:00 a lot of bio goes down in the main the SCVs are being sacced shuttle is down in supply a bit
24:00 shuttle is getting a 5th base as well bio is all over the map trying to keep the BLs back tons of broods out now only 3 festors
25:00 19 corrupters are out 15 vikings and 2 ravens bio goes in ot the heavily saturated fifth but doesn't kill it all
26:00 shuttle is down at 189 but slivko has to stay back shuttle is basically just buidling only viking and suicide squads of bio
27:00 both players maxed 2 small bio armies look like they want to go for a flank raven upgrades otw bio army kills the 5th again
28:00 +3 air attack is up fusion core is coming down 3 CCs are coming for shuttle both still maxed
29:00 shuttle scanning the army big fight hunter seekers do a lot of damage vikings are trying to fight too many corrupters it seems queens with transfuse do a lot of damage
30:00 10 corrupters and 15 infestors on the way slivko is maxed now shuttle at 160 supply ghosts coming out now
31:00 slivko is pushing now hes coming in trying to get to the terran production
32:00 bio is killing bases but the BL festor is staying looks like a bizzare base race shuttle is sitting in his main trying to wait and build up slivko is losing a ton CCs are floating away for shuttle slivko is killing the nat, the 43d and 4th are down
33:00 the army is now getting the main of shuttle slivko has nothing left really at home the army is so stron emps hit a lot of festors seeker missiles kill a lot of stuff
34:00 slivko is now in the main of shuttle the production is being seiged by slivko the seige of the main of slivko has stopped because all of his bio is dead
35:00 vikings and ravens escape lots of bases out on the map for shuttle slivko is killing the entire main slivko now has the 3:00 base
36:00 shuttle is at 100 supply to 142 lings kill a hidden base of shuttle slivko is making a lot of lings to kill the last stuff
37:00 shuttles buildings are buring down he's building marines the BLs are finding everything so many lings
38:00 shuttle is losing his last base stuff the are both very supply blocked now marines trying to kill the hatches at home marines are doing decent damage slivko finds the main base of shuttle
39:00 BLs are killing just about everything
40:00 so little supply for shuttle slivko is getting un supply blocked
41:00 shuttle is now trapped with his last buildings he tries to land a cc at the other side again no SCVs for shuttle
42:00 this is just silly guys
44:00 BLs are just moving around the map trying to kill stuff there are a few buildings left for shuttle shuttle still has many vikings
45:00 engagement, slivko runs from the pdds he gets some good fungals slivko is running out of corrupters shuttle still has a few vikings.
46:00 slivko is making lings hes killing some of the last buildings of shuttle the last CC is found
47:00 vikings land and try to kill the last drones they're dying to spines infestors coming in for the fungals shuttle has 15 supply gg
Wow! I actually turned off the stream cause I was too sure sLivko had lost. Then I returned to this thread and saw that the games weren't actually over and I had to go check... I still have no clue how that happened :p
On June 27 2013 04:53 plogamer wrote: Shuttle should have fought with his air army sooner; kill off broodlords, then clean up with his bio + landed vikings. But he lost all his bio already and it's too late.
Yeah he focused too much on the corruptors in fights imo. If he had targeted the broodlords he would have much more time as corruptors can't kill a base.
On June 27 2013 04:53 plogamer wrote: Shuttle should have fought with his air army sooner; kill off broodlords, then clean up with his bio + landed vikings. But he lost all his bio already and it's too late.
Yeah he focused too much on the corruptors in fights imo. If he had targeted the broodlords he would have much more time as corruptors can't kill a base.
Yes but they can morph to new broodlords and Slivko could also make 15 corruptors at once (which he did). I think he made the right decision of first trying to remove anti air and only then go for broodlords, especially since first fight was not on top of his production.
On June 27 2013 04:57 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: To be fair in WoL corruptors were hardly needed. Insta fungal + IT was more than enough AA usually.
That really depends on the situation. Corruptors are good at tanking damage and forces the Terran to micro their vikings instead of just his ground army.
On June 27 2013 05:07 StarVe wrote: SLivko emerges from the icy depths of Challenger League to face SK.MC in a fight to the death! Rebirth in the Spawning Pool of Mother Russia!
0:00 MC spawns in the bottom right sLivko spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for sLivko Forge for MC hatch for sLivko
3:00 Nexus for MC cannon for MC gateway for MC double gas for MC
4:00 3rd base for sLivko cybernetics core for MC zealot for MC
5:00 double gas for sLivko Stargate for MC
6:00 Roach warren for sLivko 3 more gates for MC Lair for sLivko
7:00 void ray for MC spine at the 3rd base for sLivko ling speed for sLivko mothership core for MC 3rd gas for sLivko
8:00 2nd void ray for MC forward pylon of MC is picked off by lings Roaches coming out for sLivko another pylon going up for MC MC starting to send his units across the map spores started for sLivko after seeing the void ray hydra den for sLivko MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko
9:00 75 vs 103 (sorry I forgot to start the supply a little earlier than this) MC sees the number of units sLivko has waiting at his 3rd and backs off another spine for sLivko robo for MC +1 attack for MC void rays and mothership core move intot he main and start harassing hte drone line evo chamber for sLivko hydras coming out for sLivko
10:00 89 vs 113 hydras force a recall from MC to save his MSC and void rays +1 range attack for sLivko Robo bay for MC 4th base for sLivko hydra speed for sLivko 2 more gates for MC observers for MC sof ar from his robo
On June 27 2013 05:13 Derez wrote: Kaelaris and Apollo doing MC's obituary already.
Yeah they seem like real downers today
I don't even think they're right either. I mean if he hypothetically won season 3 and just showed up to the season finals thats 2000 points, which should be at least close, assuming the ro8's of each WCS season are approximately the same every season (meaning provided each season doesn't have an entirely new ro8)
0:00 MC spawns in the bottom right sLivko spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for sLivko Forge for MC hatch for sLivko
3:00 Nexus for MC cannon for MC gateway for MC double gas for MC
4:00 3rd base for sLivko cybernetics core for MC zealot for MC
5:00 double gas for sLivko Stargate for MC
6:00 Roach warren for sLivko 3 more gates for MC Lair for sLivko
7:00 void ray for MC spine at the 3rd base for sLivko ling speed for sLivko mothership core for MC 3rd gas for sLivko
8:00 2nd void ray for MC forward pylon of MC is picked off by lings Roaches coming out for sLivko another pylon going up for MC MC starting to send his units across the map spores started for sLivko after seeing the void ray hydra den for sLivko MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko
9:00 75 vs 103 (sorry I forgot to start the supply a little earlier than this) MC sees the number of units sLivko has waiting at his 3rd and backs off another spine for sLivko robo for MC +1 attack for MC void rays and mothership core move intot he main and start harassing hte drone line evo chamber for sLivko hydras coming out for sLivko
10:00 89 vs 113 hydras force a recall from MC to save his MSC and void rays +1 range attack for sLivko Robo bay for MC 4th base for sLivko hydra speed for sLivko 2 more gates for MC observers for MC sof ar from his robo
11:00 101 vs 133 Extended thermal lance research started for MC colossus production started for MC Roach speed for sLivko infestation pit for sLivko twilight council for MC
12:00 115 vs 167 3rd base for MC hydra range for sLivko MC using hallucinated phoenixes to scout and sees the 4th
13:00 123 vs 194 Blink research started for MC +2 range attack started for sLivko MC picks off a few units of sLivko trapping them with forcefields near MC's 3rd Hive for sLivko +2 attack started for MC
14:00 149 vs 197 spines started for sLivko 2 more evos for sLivko for vipers 8 spines building now
15:00 167 vs 191 MC starting to push out on the map now vipers started for sLivko MC attacking the spines at the 3rd of sLivko spines are starting to fall sLivko flanks with half of his army and there is a big engagemnet 2 colossi fall right away to the flank
0:00 MC spawns in the bottom right sLivko spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for sLivko Forge for MC hatch for sLivko
3:00 Nexus for MC cannon for MC gateway for MC double gas for MC
4:00 3rd base for sLivko cybernetics core for MC zealot for MC
5:00 double gas for sLivko Stargate for MC
6:00 Roach warren for sLivko 3 more gates for MC Lair for sLivko
7:00 void ray for MC spine at the 3rd base for sLivko ling speed for sLivko mothership core for MC 3rd gas for sLivko
8:00 2nd void ray for MC forward pylon of MC is picked off by lings Roaches coming out for sLivko another pylon going up for MC MC starting to send his units across the map spores started for sLivko after seeing the void ray hydra den for sLivko MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko
9:00 75 vs 103 (sorry I forgot to start the supply a little earlier than this) MC sees the number of units sLivko has waiting at his 3rd and backs off another spine for sLivko robo for MC +1 attack for MC void rays and mothership core move intot he main and start harassing hte drone line evo chamber for sLivko hydras coming out for sLivko
10:00 89 vs 113 hydras force a recall from MC to save his MSC and void rays +1 range attack for sLivko Robo bay for MC 4th base for sLivko hydra speed for sLivko 2 more gates for MC observers for MC sof ar from his robo
11:00 101 vs 133 Extended thermal lance research started for MC colossus production started for MC Roach speed for sLivko infestation pit for sLivko twilight council for MC
12:00 115 vs 167 3rd base for MC hydra range for sLivko MC using hallucinated phoenixes to scout and sees the 4th
13:00 123 vs 194 Blink research started for MC +2 range attack started for sLivko MC picks off a few units of sLivko trapping them with forcefields near MC's 3rd Hive for sLivko +2 attack started for MC
14:00 149 vs 197 spines started for sLivko 2 more evos for sLivko for vipers 8 spines building now
15:00 167 vs 191 MC starting to push out on the map now vipers started for sLivko MC attacking the spines at the 3rd of sLivko spines are starting to fall sLivko flanks with half of his army and there is a big engagemnet 2 colossi fall right away to the flank
Man, your LR is sick (Packrat too, but yours has pretty icons). Totally getting me through the workday when I can't stream <3
0:00 MC spawns in the bottom right sLivko spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for sLivko Forge for MC hatch for sLivko
3:00 Nexus for MC cannon for MC gateway for MC double gas for MC
4:00 3rd base for sLivko cybernetics core for MC zealot for MC
5:00 double gas for sLivko Stargate for MC
6:00 Roach warren for sLivko 3 more gates for MC Lair for sLivko
7:00 void ray for MC spine at the 3rd base for sLivko ling speed for sLivko mothership core for MC 3rd gas for sLivko
8:00 2nd void ray for MC forward pylon of MC is picked off by lings Roaches coming out for sLivko another pylon going up for MC MC starting to send his units across the map spores started for sLivko after seeing the void ray hydra den for sLivko MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko
9:00 75 vs 103 (sorry I forgot to start the supply a little earlier than this) MC sees the number of units sLivko has waiting at his 3rd and backs off another spine for sLivko robo for MC +1 attack for MC void rays and mothership core move intot he main and start harassing hte drone line evo chamber for sLivko hydras coming out for sLivko
10:00 89 vs 113 hydras force a recall from MC to save his MSC and void rays +1 range attack for sLivko Robo bay for MC 4th base for sLivko hydra speed for sLivko 2 more gates for MC observers for MC sof ar from his robo
11:00 101 vs 133 Extended thermal lance research started for MC colossus production started for MC Roach speed for sLivko infestation pit for sLivko twilight council for MC
12:00 115 vs 167 3rd base for MC hydra range for sLivko MC using hallucinated phoenixes to scout and sees the 4th
13:00 123 vs 194 Blink research started for MC +2 range attack started for sLivko MC picks off a few units of sLivko trapping them with forcefields near MC's 3rd Hive for sLivko +2 attack started for MC
14:00 149 vs 197 spines started for sLivko 2 more evos for sLivko for vipers 8 spines building now
15:00 167 vs 191 MC starting to push out on the map now vipers started for sLivko MC attacking the spines at the 3rd of sLivko spines are starting to fall sLivko flanks with half of his army and there is a big engagemnet 2 colossi fall right away to the flank
16:00 126 vs 187 MC starting to break through at the 3rd 1 colossus and 2 void rays are still alive sLivko pumping out more roaches and hydras vipers enter the battle and abduct the last colossus to help kill it blinding cloud on the stalkers but htey blink out of it blink stalkers pushing back the roaches and hydras that are left
17:00 110 vs 159 3rd of sLivko is killed and MC blinks away colossus count rebuilding at home for MC +3 attack started for MC 3 more gates for MC 5th base started for sLivko 3rd base rebuilding for sLivko Templar archives for MC
18:00 140 vs 199 stalkers picking off pieces of sLivko's army and blinding away as sLivko moves across the map +3 range attack started for sLivko sLivko moving into the 3rd of MC 2 colossi are out for MC now stalkers blink forward and pick off the high energy viper HTs are out for MC now
19:00 172 vs 195 storm research started for MC sLivko making more vipers 4th base started for MC sLivko making another evo to drain
20:00 189 vs 200 enduring locusts started for sLivko swarm hosts building for sLivko more spines and spores for sLivko charge research for MC +1 armor for MC zealots heading for the 5th are caught by sLivko's army
0:00 MC spawns in the bottom right sLivko spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for sLivko Forge for MC hatch for sLivko
3:00 Nexus for MC cannon for MC gateway for MC double gas for MC
4:00 3rd base for sLivko cybernetics core for MC zealot for MC
5:00 double gas for sLivko Stargate for MC
6:00 Roach warren for sLivko 3 more gates for MC Lair for sLivko
7:00 void ray for MC spine at the 3rd base for sLivko ling speed for sLivko mothership core for MC 3rd gas for sLivko
8:00 2nd void ray for MC forward pylon of MC is picked off by lings Roaches coming out for sLivko another pylon going up for MC MC starting to send his units across the map spores started for sLivko after seeing the void ray hydra den for sLivko MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko
9:00 75 vs 103 (sorry I forgot to start the supply a little earlier than this) MC sees the number of units sLivko has waiting at his 3rd and backs off another spine for sLivko robo for MC +1 attack for MC void rays and mothership core move intot he main and start harassing hte drone line evo chamber for sLivko hydras coming out for sLivko
10:00 89 vs 113 hydras force a recall from MC to save his MSC and void rays +1 range attack for sLivko Robo bay for MC 4th base for sLivko hydra speed for sLivko 2 more gates for MC observers for MC sof ar from his robo
11:00 101 vs 133 Extended thermal lance research started for MC colossus production started for MC Roach speed for sLivko infestation pit for sLivko twilight council for MC
12:00 115 vs 167 3rd base for MC hydra range for sLivko MC using hallucinated phoenixes to scout and sees the 4th
13:00 123 vs 194 Blink research started for MC +2 range attack started for sLivko MC picks off a few units of sLivko trapping them with forcefields near MC's 3rd Hive for sLivko +2 attack started for MC
14:00 149 vs 197 spines started for sLivko 2 more evos for sLivko for vipers 8 spines building now
15:00 167 vs 191 MC starting to push out on the map now vipers started for sLivko MC attacking the spines at the 3rd of sLivko spines are starting to fall sLivko flanks with half of his army and there is a big engagemnet 2 colossi fall right away to the flank
16:00 126 vs 187 MC starting to break through at the 3rd 1 colossus and 2 void rays are still alive sLivko pumping out more roaches and hydras vipers enter the battle and abduct the last colossus to help kill it blinding cloud on the stalkers but htey blink out of it blink stalkers pushing back the roaches and hydras that are left
17:00 110 vs 159 3rd of sLivko is killed and MC blinks away colossus count rebuilding at home for MC +3 attack started for MC 3 more gates for MC 5th base started for sLivko 3rd base rebuilding for sLivko Templar archives for MC
18:00 140 vs 199 stalkers picking off pieces of sLivko's army and blinding away as sLivko moves across the map +3 range attack started for sLivko sLivko moving into the 3rd of MC 2 colossi are out for MC now stalkers blink forward and pick off the high energy viper HTs are out for MC now
19:00 172 vs 195 storm research started for MC sLivko making more vipers 4th base started for MC sLivko making another evo to drain
20:00 189 vs 200 enduring locusts started for sLivko swarm hosts building for sLivko more spines and spores for sLivko charge research for MC +1 armor for MC zealots heading for the 5th are caught by sLivko's army
21:00 199 vs 200 MC poking at the 3rd of sLivko and sees the swarm hosts zealot runby to the 5th of sLivko storm on the army of sLivko engagement on the low ground between sLivko's bases zealots kill all of the drones at the 5th of sLivko
22:00 177 vs 172 13 swarm hosts coming out for sLivko 5th base of sLivko is killed MC attacking into the 3rd of sLivko again storm on the swarm hosts
23:00 199 vs 139 3rd base of sLivko is killed MC pushing into the swarm hosts and killing them off storm on the army of sLivko stalkers blink on all of the swarm hosts sLivko ggs! MC wins game 1!
One thing I wish MC would do is upgrade armor/shields. I mean, I understand his old comment about "my units never die so why upgrade armor" but it seems his blink micro isn't as good as it used to be.
0:00 MC spawns in the top left sLivko spawns in the bottom right
1:40 gateway first for MC gas for MC
2:00 hatch first for sLivko pool for sLivko gas for sLivko cybernetics core for MC
3:00 overlord scouts no fast nexus zealot for MC Nexus for MC 2nd gas for MC mothership core for MC
4:00 ling speed for sLivko probe scouts the main of sLivko 2 more gates for MC
5:00 overlord speed for sLivko 4th gate for MC
6:00 3rd base for sLivko overlord scouts everything in MC's base and sees the 4 gates another gas for sLivko Roach warren for sLivko 2 more gas for MC
7:00 52 vs 55 MC has a bunch of sentries and a zealot Lair for sLivko MC moving across the map speed overlord sees MC walking across Roaches started for sLivko lings try to bait out forcefields but MC doesnt bite lings find the forward pylon of MC but MC saves it with forcefields
8:00 73 vs 83 MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko spine started at the 3rd of sLivko roaches are out MC forcefields a bunch of roaches timewarp on the roaches stalkers being warped in queens try to target the MSC but MC saves it 30 more lings on the way for sLivko
9:00 75 vs 91 MC retreats back to his pylon roach speed for sLivko sLivko repositions his spine MC starts to attack back into the 3rd but sLivko has too many units for MC to attack forge for MC sLivko droning up again MC warps in more units and attacks again Robo for MC
10:00 85 vs 93 MC breaking through he army of sLivko sLivko trying to make more units another spine for sLivko +1 attack started for MC MC retreats MC is ahead by 2 workers
Wait what? He just packs up and goes home? He was about to bust through, and backing away without hurting econ too much is eh. Actually wow, worker counts are very close.
0:00 MC spawns in the top left sLivko spawns in the bottom right
1:40 gateway first for MC gas for MC
2:00 hatch first for sLivko pool for sLivko gas for sLivko cybernetics core for MC
3:00 overlord scouts no fast nexus zealot for MC Nexus for MC 2nd gas for MC mothership core for MC
4:00 ling speed for sLivko probe scouts the main of sLivko 2 more gates for MC
5:00 overlord speed for sLivko 4th gate for MC
6:00 3rd base for sLivko overlord scouts everything in MC's base and sees the 4 gates another gas for sLivko Roach warren for sLivko 2 more gas for MC
7:00 52 vs 55 MC has a bunch of sentries and a zealot Lair for sLivko MC moving across the map speed overlord sees MC walking across Roaches started for sLivko lings try to bait out forcefields but MC doesnt bite lings find the forward pylon of MC but MC saves it with forcefields
8:00 73 vs 83 MC attacking at the 3rd of sLivko spine started at the 3rd of sLivko roaches are out MC forcefields a bunch of roaches timewarp on the roaches stalkers being warped in queens try to target the MSC but MC saves it 30 more lings on the way for sLivko
9:00 75 vs 91 MC retreats back to his pylon roach speed for sLivko sLivko repositions his spine MC starts to attack back into the 3rd but sLivko has too many units for MC to attack forge for MC sLivko droning up again MC warps in more units and attacks again Robo for MC
10:00 85 vs 93 MC breaking through he army of sLivko sLivko trying to make more units another spine for sLivko +1 attack started for MC MC retreats MC is ahead by 2 workers
11:00 91 vs 109 immortals started for MC 3 more gates for MC overlord creep blocking MC's potential 3rd macro hatch for sLivko
12:00 103 vs 126 burrow research started for sLivko warp prism for MC after his 2nd immortal tunneling claws for sLivko observer for MC
13:00 122 vs 163 sLivko sees the attack coming and starts making more lings and roaches MC attacking up the ramp between the natural and 3rd overlords fly over the army of MC MC forcefields away the roach flank 1 immortal falls MC breaking through the front but the forcefields are gone for the flank now
14:00 118 vs 120 sLivko making more and more roaches MC starting to kill the overlords more stalkers being warped in by the warp prism MC attacking into the natural now drones in the natural are being pulled sLivko has lost too many overlords and is in the red now
15:00 100 vs 87 sLivko has to gg! MC wins and advances into the Ro16!
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/wcs/wcs_eu_lr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/30/Writers_Icon.png/15px-Writers_Icon.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/3o4yv.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/3o5nJ.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/4/4b/Fr.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
Stephano vs. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/f/fb/Ru.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Kr.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png)
Shuttle vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png)
MC![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/3o5NQ.png)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/3o6Au.png)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/3o79H.png)
gogo MC!
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BA9aRcXCIAAHM6o.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/4/4f/Sklogo_std.png)
MC spawns in the bottom right
sLivko spawns in the bottom left
