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On June 07 2013 15:26 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 15:21 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 15:19 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 15:18 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 15:16 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 15:12 ymir233 wrote:On June 07 2013 15:01 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 14:54 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 14:47 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 14:44 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
You really don't know anything about ZvT do you? Oh yeah sure I mean I guess I just missed all those games where the pros did tank pushes in TvZ after 2010 Yeah, because that was what was wrong with your post... First of all they don't have to blindly build tanks. The second a Terran sees the Zerg committing to Roaches they can go for them knowing that the Zerg is going to be very aggressive. No one builds roaches with the intention of heading to the lategame. Secondly the Terran doesn't have to get all those things at once. That is the greedy play we are talking about. The Zerg forgoes a shitload of tech and economy to do that attack so you don't need super fast ups and lots of bio. What you need are bunkers, tanks, widow mines and marauders. The Zerg forgoes Mutas so drop play is amazingly effective if the push is held off. Also lings don't hard counter tanks, that is a stupid statement. With +1 mechanical tanks destroy lings. 1) See roach warren-build tanks or pray it's for hellion defense. Larva means you don't know an allin is coming until it's done producing. You don't see what eggs are building until it's done, and crossmap distances mean you get one, MAYBE two tanks out by the time the allin hits. 2) If you don't get upgrades+3CC fast, you are going to be on equal ground in the time when terran needs to do damage instead of ahead, which reduces the ability to do damage and in turn reduces chances of victory the longer the game goes on. 3) Building tanks, marauders, mines, and bunkers is also forgoing a shitload of tech and economy, and if you start it when you see the first roach come out you don't know if the zerg is just making a few for defense or if it's actually an allin. Delaying your third until after you have multiple tanks is also dumb because tanks delay tech to mine/medivac really hard and without gasses 5/6 it becomes a massive block. Can't afford medivacs on 2base going mine/marauder/tank/bunker, so drop play isn't actually effective because it happens just as well as mutas do. I don't exactly get why Terrans want tanks AND mines AND medivacs AND bunkers AND a third base all at a reasonable time, but I'm fine with the ZvT matchup becoming 50/50 chance allins until hilarity ensues. Well you need the tanks and bunkers and marauders and mines to defend an allin that you can't scout until you have like 40 seconds until it hits, and you need a third if you don't want to die at 12 minutes instead of 10 What? See more then 10 Roaches and assuming that he isn't going Roach/Hydra you can guarantee that it is a Roach bust. No one builds roaches vs Terrans with lategame intentions Yeah, you see the 10 roaches and the rest are either on the way or done already and you have 40 seconds, a minute at best. How is that hard to grasp? You can't build 35 Roaches in a minute. Bunkers don;t take very long to build, neither do mines. Survival tanks can be added on if the Terran bothers to scan. You can save money and larva just like zerg does every time they are building a specific tech (mutas, infestors, corruptors, ultras, roaches, banelings....) and then mass build them just like zerg does every time they are building a specific tech. Scan doesn't show you what eggs are building (if they do, please show me where you get your hacks). Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 15:20 ymir233 wrote:On June 07 2013 15:16 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 15:12 ymir233 wrote:On June 07 2013 15:01 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 14:54 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 14:47 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 14:44 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 14:43 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 14:38 Dvriel wrote:
[quote]
43 SCVs? You can have 52 SCVs in 10 min with only 2 bases and still make 3rd CC and expand at 12:30 with it landed!!! Just need to remember the Bombers TvZ from Day9s daily. Just got 2-3 Tanks to defend and switch to WM+bio with early upgrades as well. Yeah no. "2-3 Tanks to defend" is also known as shooting yourself in the foot so you can't attack anything, and 52 scv's in 10 minutes is nothing compared to 80 drones on 3 bases with a fourth coming up, 2/2 done, hive and 3/3 on the way. You can't afford mines, tanks, upgrades, and bio at the same time, and tanks mean you can't put pressure on in TvZ because just zerglings hardcounter them so zerg sees the tanks and gets a free pass to do whatever until like 15:00 because the hardest attack that you'll face is like 6 hellions or 8 marine drop. You really don't know anything about ZvT do you? Oh yeah sure I mean I guess I just missed all those games where the pros did tank pushes in TvZ after 2010 Yeah, because that was what was wrong with your post... First of all they don't have to blindly build tanks. The second a Terran sees the Zerg committing to Roaches they can go for them knowing that the Zerg is going to be very aggressive. No one builds roaches with the intention of heading to the lategame. Secondly the Terran doesn't have to get all those things at once. That is the greedy play we are talking about. The Zerg forgoes a shitload of tech and economy to do that attack so you don't need super fast ups and lots of bio. What you need are bunkers, tanks, widow mines and marauders. The Zerg forgoes Mutas so drop play is amazingly effective if the push is held off. Also lings don't hard counter tanks, that is a stupid statement. With +1 mechanical tanks destroy lings. 1) See roach warren-build tanks or pray it's for hellion defense. Larva means you don't know an allin is coming until it's done producing. You don't see what eggs are building until it's done, and crossmap distances mean you get one, MAYBE two tanks out by the time the allin hits. 2) If you don't get upgrades+3CC fast, you are going to be on equal ground in the time when terran needs to do damage instead of ahead, which reduces the ability to do damage and in turn reduces chances of victory the longer the game goes on. 3) Building tanks, marauders, mines, and bunkers is also forgoing a shitload of tech and economy, and if you start it when you see the first roach come out you don't know if the zerg is just making a few for defense or if it's actually an allin. Delaying your third until after you have multiple tanks is also dumb because tanks delay tech to mine/medivac really hard and without gasses 5/6 it becomes a massive block. Can't afford medivacs on 2base going mine/marauder/tank/bunker, so drop play isn't actually effective because it happens just as well as mutas do. I don't exactly get why Terrans want tanks AND mines AND medivacs AND bunkers AND a third base all at a reasonable time, but I'm fine with the ZvT matchup becoming 50/50 chance allins until hilarity ensues. Well you need the tanks and bunkers and marauders and mines to defend an allin that you can't scout until you have like 40 seconds until it hits, and you need a third if you don't want to die at 12 minutes instead of 10 Because scanning, constant units near the opponent's front, counting queens, counting gas, gas timings, and third hatchery timings never work. gj gj playing smart Okay, i can see eggs. What now? Okay, i see two or three queens laying creep. What now? Okay, i see a queen at every base. This isn't standard? Counting gas and gas timings are possible until zerg has units (of course, you could use every scan on zerg bases every time you have a scan available, and then you have even less money for the defense you may or may not need). Okay, they took a third base a minute late. Are they playing extra safe or extra aggressive? Are they getting the third late because they took a fast lair and went for mutas? Are they getting the third late because they took a fast lair and went for nydus? Are they getting the third late because they took a fast lair and went for roach/baneling?
I thought the argument went nicely until you posted this lol post
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Uh....what just happened, did his hotkeys just mess up?
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Go go go, Time Attack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Forgg might be the terran hope, this worries me.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:35 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 15:35 GolemMadness wrote:On June 07 2013 15:34 Caihead wrote:
why is every writer making the "but he made tanks" joke. Is this some in-joke from the contributors forums I'm not aware of. When Innovation lost to all ins from Soulkey, everyone was raging about how he should have just made some tanks and he'd be fine. And TL writers think they're funny but they're not ;D
=(
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Yes FORGG!!!
also beating squirtle in this millenium tourney, oh you what would have happened if not that widow mine hit against stephano. but now you are here to make it through to the final!
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Jürgen please win! 
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Austria24422 Posts
That looked like HerO vs Revival game 2. Don't watch your stuff, get killed. Come on, get your shit together
Like... something must've fucked up there. He didn't move anything at all
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United States23455 Posts
ForGG just stimmed some girl in the crowd.
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best strategy: just go fucking kill him.
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United States30730 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:35 Emzeeshady wrote:
Losira's ZvZ is actually very good right now. f he wins this series he has a serious chance of beating Soulkey.
Yeah, I can't say it with full confidence yet because he hasn't played enough but ZvZ does seem to be the only matchup he doesn't completely derp in. Where his strong mechanics can fully shine through
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On June 07 2013 15:33 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 15:27 Gauje wrote:On June 07 2013 15:21 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 15:19 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 15:18 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 15:16 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 15:12 ymir233 wrote:On June 07 2013 15:01 GTPGlitch wrote:On June 07 2013 14:54 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 07 2013 14:47 GTPGlitch wrote:
[quote]
Oh yeah sure I mean I guess I just missed all those games where the pros did tank pushes in TvZ after 2010 Yeah, because that was what was wrong with your post... First of all they don't have to blindly build tanks. The second a Terran sees the Zerg committing to Roaches they can go for them knowing that the Zerg is going to be very aggressive. No one builds roaches with the intention of heading to the lategame. Secondly the Terran doesn't have to get all those things at once. That is the greedy play we are talking about. The Zerg forgoes a shitload of tech and economy to do that attack so you don't need super fast ups and lots of bio. What you need are bunkers, tanks, widow mines and marauders. The Zerg forgoes Mutas so drop play is amazingly effective if the push is held off. Also lings don't hard counter tanks, that is a stupid statement. With +1 mechanical tanks destroy lings. 1) See roach warren-build tanks or pray it's for hellion defense. Larva means you don't know an allin is coming until it's done producing. You don't see what eggs are building until it's done, and crossmap distances mean you get one, MAYBE two tanks out by the time the allin hits. 2) If you don't get upgrades+3CC fast, you are going to be on equal ground in the time when terran needs to do damage instead of ahead, which reduces the ability to do damage and in turn reduces chances of victory the longer the game goes on. 3) Building tanks, marauders, mines, and bunkers is also forgoing a shitload of tech and economy, and if you start it when you see the first roach come out you don't know if the zerg is just making a few for defense or if it's actually an allin. Delaying your third until after you have multiple tanks is also dumb because tanks delay tech to mine/medivac really hard and without gasses 5/6 it becomes a massive block. Can't afford medivacs on 2base going mine/marauder/tank/bunker, so drop play isn't actually effective because it happens just as well as mutas do. I don't exactly get why Terrans want tanks AND mines AND medivacs AND bunkers AND a third base all at a reasonable time, but I'm fine with the ZvT matchup becoming 50/50 chance allins until hilarity ensues. Well you need the tanks and bunkers and marauders and mines to defend an allin that you can't scout until you have like 40 seconds until it hits, and you need a third if you don't want to die at 12 minutes instead of 10 What? See more then 10 Roaches and assuming that he isn't going Roach/Hydra you can guarantee that it is a Roach bust. No one builds roaches vs Terrans with lategame intentions Yeah, you see the 10 roaches and the rest are either on the way or done already and you have 40 seconds, a minute at best. How is that hard to grasp? You can't build 35 Roaches in a minute. Bunkers don;t take very long to build, neither do mines. Survival tanks can be added on if the Terran bothers to scan. Yeah man, you know how to play terran better than every pro terran in Korea. Thanks for the insight chief. They know they need to do this but there is always more in these matches then we know. For example in the 2012 GSL 4 final Mvp did a BFH attack almost every game devastating Life's economy. The right response to this attack is lots of roaches plus queens. Life obviously knew this but after the series he said he was overconfident in his ability to defend without adapting to the build.
This isn't one BoX that we're talking about here. We just saw GSL won with roach bane, everyone knew this was coming. It's not as easy to defend as 'just pushing out a couple tanks' like you seem to like to flippantly suggest.
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On June 07 2013 15:33 BigFan wrote:
Come on mvp! He's not playing as well as I thought ><
Code B Player vs Code S Quarter-finalist.
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I don't know why anyone would even think all Losira knows is to do busts.
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On June 07 2013 15:35 stuchiu wrote:
Wow ForGG crushed Hero. Artosis curse.
EU > AM
hehe. just kidding.
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EPT
