EPT[WCS AM] RO32 Group E Premier Season 1 2013 - Page 12
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govie
9334 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On May 01 2013 09:58 Nebuchad wrote: So you're saying it's standard Nestea gameplay for Nestea to waste what, 7-8000 ressources, just so he could win with mutas despite the hard counter? I mean, I know he did similar in the famous HuK game (where it was obviously BM too), but I never saw him do it any other time. Believe it or not...it actually is standard Nestea ZvP. He's not really quick for fancy mico-management and mulitask like DRG, Life, or Leenock. So he plays to his strenght, macro and decision-making. If you followed Nestea, in ZvP he loves mutas more than any Zerg in that matchup and he wins quite often with them. See his epic game vs PartinG on Whirlwind in Iron Squid. Very similar. | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 01 2013 09:54 Nebuchad wrote: Exactly. That's why it's bm. Just make a composition that's good vs him and kill him already, you don't have to make cost inefficient trades on purpose just to make a point that you're so much better that you can even beat him with mutas vs double stargate... Okay that's enough. Nestea's strategy is actually really intelligent all around and I think it shows a lot of preparation on his part. Excluding the obvious small mistakes he made here and there, the proxy hatch is a legitimate strategy against someone he may know often goes nexus first. It also gets the added bonus of putting the Protoss player on the wrong foot as PvZ tempo advantage is usually given to Protoss early game letting them do pressure with fast zealot stalker msc, but Nestea's open lets him throw them off that rhythm. He then went to spire, but didn't commit to mutas because he thought and confirmed there were double stargates, so he went corruptors. Minigun wasn't sure if it was one or the other and had to get phoenixes, then go double void rays/collossi as it was the fastest tech he could transition to that could actually hit the ground. So the tech to corruptors buys Nestea a huge amount of time to get hundreds of drones and he went to mass ling bane because they are expendable, fast and do well to stop any kind of harassment Minigun may have tried during that time. He banked up money and then went for a bust to trade in his ling/bling corruptors. Money wasn't a problem at that point and all he was doing was trading that army to go mass mutas. At that point the game was over, there was no cannons, not enough phoenixes left and he had neglected blink stalkers. He could either go for a base trade and lose 100% or recall and try to defend Nestea's muta ball, but mutas once they do the initial hit of damage generally snowball out of control and win the game. | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On May 01 2013 09:54 Nebuchad wrote: Exactly. That's why it's bm. Just make a composition that's good vs him and kill him already, you don't have to make cost inefficient trades on purpose just to make a point that you're so much better that you can even beat him with mutas vs double stargate... It wasn't bm. zergs do this on a very frequent basis. Tech switching late game is very good. It wasn't a fuck up bling bust, it went pretty much as much as he could have hoped. Check out a few of the naniwa vs leenock games, and I think leenock did something similar at least one, if not twice. I seriously doubt he would fool around in a tournament of this caliber. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12453 Posts
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:03 stuchiu wrote: Okay that's enough. Nestea's strategy is actually really intelligent all around and I think it shows a lot of preparation on his part. Excluding the obvious small mistakes he made here and there, the proxy hatch is a legitimate strategy against someone he may know often goes nexus first. It also gets the added bonus of putting the Protoss player on the wrong foot as PvZ tempo advantage is usually given to Protoss early game letting them do pressure with fast zealot stalker msc, but Nestea's open lets him throw them off that rhythm. He then went to spire, but didn't commit to mutas because he thought and confirmed there were double stargates, so he went corruptors. Minigun wasn't sure if it was one or the other and had to get phoenixes, then go double void rays/collossi as it was the fastest tech he could transition to that could actually hit the ground. So the tech to corruptors buys Nestea a huge amount of time to get hundreds of drones and he went to mass ling bane because they are expendable, fast and do well to stop any kind of harassment Minigun may have tried during that time. He banked up money and then went for a bust to trade in his ling/bling corruptors. Money wasn't a problem at that point and all he was doing was trading that army to go mass mutas. At that point the game was over, there was no cannons, not enough phoenixes left and he had neglected blink stalkers. He could either go for a base trade and lose 100% or recall and try to defend Nestea's muta ball, but mutas once they do the initial hit of damage generally snowball out of control and win the game. Well said, that is what I was trying to say, just less eloquently lol: On May 01 2013 09:56 onPHYRE wrote: I don't think you are understanding what was happening. He made banelings so he could cost effectively free up supply, so he killed econ instead of saccing roaches for nothing to forcefields. Yea the proxy hatch stuff went worse than last game but it still delayed Mini and clearly NesTea is more comfortable playing from those positions/timings. The toss feels like he needs to go do damage because he made units early to kill the Hatchery, NesTea knows this, produces units to trade cost effectively and then knows the toss can no longer move out for a while so he drones like a mad man. Pretty genius if your opponent is predictable enough. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On May 01 2013 09:50 Emzeeshady wrote: You are joking right? Is this some sort of stupid balance whine against Mutas? I'm just saying even a friggin diamond could do what nestea did if a protoss didn't attack for 20 minutes and let the zerg get up to 115 drones and even after that wasn't the one to attack and only built like 6 phoenixes | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:08 SeaSmoke wrote: Why can't they have the harvester count thing on the bottom...is this different from the other ui? It's different, the icons on the top left are also more squished together. I like the one wcs kr uses more. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12453 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:04 ROOTMinigun wrote: I seriously doubt he would fool around in a tournament of this caliber. He did it in GSL vs Huk, so your doubt is invalid =) I mean I'm against everyone so obv I'm wrong and it's just his way to do his stuff. Still don't think that's the best way he could go about it, especially after the great advantage he took from perfect early game, just like stuchiu pointed out, but then again I don't play zerg. Gl for the next match. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:10 GTPGlitch wrote: I'm just saying even a friggin diamond could do what nestea did if a protoss didn't attack for 20 minutes and let the zerg get up to 115 drones and even after that wasn't the one to attack and only built like 6 phoenixes haha no, definitely not. even masters players are terrible compared to what nestea displayed there. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:04 ROOTMinigun wrote: It wasn't bm. zergs do this on a very frequent basis. Tech switching late game is very good. It wasn't a fuck up bling bust, it went pretty much as much as he could have hoped. Check out a few of the naniwa vs leenock games, and I think leenock did something similar at least one, if not twice. I seriously doubt he would fool around in a tournament of this caliber. gl in your next match  | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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