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[SPL] KT Rolster vs STX Soul R4 - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:10:33
April 08 2013 09:09 GMT
#181
On April 08 2013 18:08 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 18:07 Yello wrote:
On April 08 2013 18:04 Megiddosc wrote:
On April 08 2013 18:00 pwnz0r wrote:
On April 08 2013 17:58 greatZERG wrote:
Am I the only person who didn't see this game as being close at all? Action was -30 supply the whole game but the commentators were acting like it was dead even. 40+ SCV kills and still didn't get near his supply.


I feel exactly the same way. The commentators aren't calling these games well at all. Whiplash keeps talking about the "high level" of play in this game, but it was really just Innovation taking apart Action left and right. Cute stuff from action, but this game was never close.

Did you miss Bogus losing 40+ scvs? Granted he's terran, and his units are insanely cost effective so it doesn't really matter, but yeah, Action did MAJOR damage with the baneling drop. It's just that terran doesn't need scvs nearly as much as the other races need their harvesters.


he killed 40 SCVs when Bogus was actually ahead on workers. Bogus was at 70 workers to Actions ~55 and normally Zerg needs to be ahead. Action did merely catch up in workers with the drops and he didn't do anything to Bogus army at all.

Bogus had the huge army lead afterwards (because of better macro) and then attacked with superior micro and good multitasking with drops.

70 drones vs 48 scvs. But with 3/4 CCs that is obviously not very much of a difference at all.


yeah, after the drops it was 70 drones to 48 SCVs. Before them (and Action droning) Bogus was ahead

and Bogus still had the better and bigger army and could damage Action
Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 08 2013 09:09 GMT
#182
On April 08 2013 18:09 Ysellian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 18:07 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 08 2013 18:06 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
Hopefully Swarm Host builds will keep losing until Blizzard just does away with them. The bastard child of Lurkers and Brood Lords, I have never seen them do anything interesting. With the decreased role of Fungal Growth, maybe we could see the root removed from that, too...


Swarm Hosts are actually really good when used offensively but as for a defensive unit they are not very powerful.

The unit is going to take some time to really figure out but trust me, once the pros do people will change their minds about it.


Seriously hope they don't remove swarm hosts. I"m actually having more fun playing with them online than I did with lurkers.

Well, they didn't remove Carriers, so there is hope yet.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
silentsaint
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany540 Posts
April 08 2013 09:09 GMT
#183
On April 08 2013 18:07 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 18:01 PredY wrote:
think he made too many SHs in the end, they are OKish vs mines but ultimately useless vs mass bio, especially when used just to defend. would love to see him save up that gas for more ultras


in panic mode, Action thought those little mushroom could shoot spikes from underground....

ok I wont brought up this discussion again but it's pretty frustrated to see a band of bio run into zerg's expo with like five SHs worth of resource and kill everything with ease


but wouldn't the same thing happen if there were 5 Broodlords in the base "guarding" it?
Alone they just aren't that effective.
It really tied the room together.
Boundz(DarKo)
Profile Joined March 2009
5311 Posts
April 08 2013 09:10 GMT
#184
I really want to see Flash play today. My body needs it.
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:12:27
April 08 2013 09:10 GMT
#185
On April 08 2013 18:06 m0ck wrote:
I would really like if zerg harassing would be somewhat effective, the reaction time from bogus was pretty appalling - Ts are used to simply being safe. And this game is a pretty good demonstration of why.


Yeah, definitely true. Baneling drops can be very potent against terran as well as protoss but fast reactions (and the right reaction) makes a huge difference and Innovation just let Action eat up his SCVs with too little consequence.
I think buffed Nydus Worms (more hp probably) and possibly some further increased overlord speed (Maybe??) would help to make harassment including small drops here and there more effective.
I don't see either change happening in a hurry, sadly.

EDIT:
On April 08 2013 18:09 silentsaint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 18:07 Arceus wrote:
On April 08 2013 18:01 PredY wrote:
think he made too many SHs in the end, they are OKish vs mines but ultimately useless vs mass bio, especially when used just to defend. would love to see him save up that gas for more ultras


in panic mode, Action thought those little mushroom could shoot spikes from underground....

ok I wont brought up this discussion again but it's pretty frustrated to see a band of bio run into zerg's expo with like five SHs worth of resource and kill everything with ease


but wouldn't the same thing happen if there were 5 Broodlords in the base "guarding" it?
Alone they just aren't that effective.

Yeah, SHs seem far more suited to offence than defence because in defence at least, they seem quite poor in small numbers or without support.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
SayTT
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2158 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:12:05
April 08 2013 09:10 GMT
#186
Mind was a freaking best in TvP in BW, he had amazing map control and zoning with tanks. HE could take games from Flash in TvT too just because he had such damn good tank placement.
-,-
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 08 2013 09:11 GMT
#187
I miss Mind's chin.

I also miss Stats's chin.

Dammit, I want my chins back.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:11:56
April 08 2013 09:11 GMT
#188
On April 08 2013 18:10 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 18:06 m0ck wrote:
I would really like if zerg harassing would be somewhat effective, the reaction time from bogus was pretty appalling - Ts are used to simply being safe. And this game is a pretty good demonstration of why.


Yeah, definitely true. Baneling drops can be very potent against terran as well as protoss but fast reactions (and the right reaction) makes a huge difference and Innovation just let Action eat up his SCVs with too little consequence.
I think buffed Nydus Worms (more hp probably) and possibly some further increased overlord speed (Maybe??) would help to make harassment including small drops here and there more effective.
I don't see either change happening in a hurry, sadly.


Just cut gas cost for both Nydus worms and drop tech. It's just too expensive at the moment. (says the horribly biased Zerg )
centergoliath4
Profile Joined March 2013
37 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:12:05
April 08 2013 09:11 GMT
#189
zerg is put into a situation where they need to defend every area at once. put army in one area, terran drops other area, your screwed

only true solution to this is mutalisks, as life probably figured out. nydus is too expensive to really get the job done in the time needed to defend every area properly. but if you got 20 mutalisks with overlord spread you can prevent all the drops (and vikings cant beat the mutas) then work your way towards ultra/ling/bane with some infestors for fungal



swarm hosts are strong units. the problem is the swarm hosts just arent good in doing what zerg NEEDS against terran, and that is defending against drops and dealing with them effectively. Swarmhosts cannot do that, and since terrans will be dropping every game you need mutas every game.

swarmhosts are good in a straight up fight but thats not what terran will be doing. swarmhosts do not provide what zerg needs against terran, soon good zergs will be going muta every game against terran until some other option is made to exist.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
April 08 2013 09:11 GMT
#190
On April 08 2013 18:11 eviltomahawk wrote:
I miss Mind's chin.

I also miss Stats's chin.

Dammit, I want my chins back.

well Classic plays later
vol_
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1608 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:16:31
April 08 2013 09:13 GMT
#191
oh nice they changed the health bars and game sounds plus some music, nice!
Jaedong gives me a deep resonance.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 08 2013 09:14 GMT
#192
Swarm Hosts should get the upgrade from campaign where they can instantly teleport around the map. That should solve some defensive woes.

Better give Terrans aoe Banshees to compensate.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
April 08 2013 09:14 GMT
#193
haven't seen mind for a long time
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24420 Posts
April 08 2013 09:15 GMT
#194
On April 08 2013 18:14 eviltomahawk wrote:
Swarm Hosts should get the upgrade from campaign where they can instantly teleport around the map. That should solve some defensive woes.

Better give Terrans aoe Banshees to compensate.


And screw protoss!
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Tobblish
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden6404 Posts
April 08 2013 09:15 GMT
#195
They should scrap normal Newkirk and take this one instead, much better imo.

You pretty much can't split the map in half without opening for the opponent to have a go at your bases.
The curse is real
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:16:45
April 08 2013 09:15 GMT
#196
On April 08 2013 18:11 centergoliath4 wrote:
zerg is put into a situation where they need to defend every area at once. put army in one area, terran drops other area, your screwed

only true solution to this is mutalisks, as life probably figured out. nydus is too expensive to really get the job done in the time needed to defend every area properly. but if you got 20 mutalisks with overlord spread you can prevent all the drops (and vikings cant beat the mutas) then work your way towards ultra/ling/bane with some infestors for fungal



swarm hosts are strong units. the problem is the swarm hosts just arent good in doing what zerg NEEDS against terran, and that is defending against drops and dealing with them effectively. Swarmhosts cannot do that, and since terrans will be dropping every game you need mutas every game.

swarmhosts are good in a straight up fight but thats not what terran will be doing. swarmhosts do not provide what zerg needs against terran, soon good zergs will be going muta every game against terran until some other option is made to exist.

It's pretty much the development stephano has gone through in the last week, now opening bling->muta every game against T. But it's very easy to lose those mutas on the way to infestor-BL and once/if they're gone, the game is close to being over.

*due to inability of infestor/BL to handle drops, I mean
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
April 08 2013 09:16 GMT
#197
On April 08 2013 18:10 SayTT wrote:
Mind was a freaking best in TvP in BW, he had amazing map control and zoning with tanks. HE could take games from Flash in TvT too just because he had such damn good tank placement.

You're out of your mind...(npi) Mind was absolutely amazing at getting up to 3 bases then dying to arbiters/carriers almost every game. He was an absolute mental cripple in the mu. No clue why you're calling him a TvP beast, he was more of a punching bag.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Giriath
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden2412 Posts
April 08 2013 09:16 GMT
#198
On April 08 2013 18:11 centergoliath4 wrote:
zerg is put into a situation where they need to defend every area at once. put army in one area, terran drops other area, your screwed

only true solution to this is mutalisks, as life probably figured out. nydus is too expensive to really get the job done in the time needed to defend every area properly. but if you got 20 mutalisks with overlord spread you can prevent all the drops (and vikings cant beat the mutas) then work your way towards ultra/ling/bane with some infestors for fungal



swarm hosts are strong units. the problem is the swarm hosts just arent good in doing what zerg NEEDS against terran, and that is defending against drops and dealing with them effectively. Swarmhosts cannot do that, and since terrans will be dropping every game you need mutas every game.

swarmhosts are good in a straight up fight but thats not what terran will be doing. swarmhosts do not provide what zerg needs against terran, soon good zergs will be going muta every game against terran until some other option is made to exist.


Yes, heavy ling bling muta is still the way to go for zerg mid-game. Life knows this, has always done it and continues to do it.
Education should be our seniors guiding us to be "who" we want to be, not "what" we want to be.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 09:16:55
April 08 2013 09:16 GMT
#199
On April 08 2013 18:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 18:14 eviltomahawk wrote:
Swarm Hosts should get the upgrade from campaign where they can instantly teleport around the map. That should solve some defensive woes.

Better give Terrans aoe Banshees to compensate.


And screw protoss!

You can have Zeratul.

He'll be a fast, stealthy assassin hero unit that depends on RNG for critical hits. Oh wait...
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
April 08 2013 09:17 GMT
#200
On April 08 2013 18:14 ne4aJIb wrote:
haven't seen mind for a long time


last time i saw him he was wearing wemade fox uniform :p
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