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The usual: Don't flame casters or players. Don't discuss balance in this or any LR thread. Don't call your fellow posters idiots. Be excited, happy and entertained. |
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 18 2013 15:06 tronix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:27 Stratos_speAr wrote:
As a side note, was anyone concerned with the fact that we really saw nothing new from Zerg? We saw a ton of Mothership Core + Oracle as well as Hellbats + Widow Mines + Medivac boosts, but we saw a little bit of the Viper and really none of the Swarm Host (to my recollection). The only difference I noticed was that we saw more Hydra Roach, since Hydras get that speed upgrade now. Granted, I didn't watch everything this weekend, but still. Leenock showcased a few games that highlighted the strengths and weaknesses of the swarm host. Check out the series against BabyKnight. HoTS zerg might not have new units until around hive tech, but there is still the option of getting earlier burrow + ovie speed. Also, buffed hydras and mutas give a lot more options for the mid game. Not necessarily new units, but the buffed hydras might as well be considering how little people used them in WoL. All in all, i think if Flash was playing at his peak (assuming Life was playing at his peak), then I think Flash could have taken the finals. His lack of experience in HoTS builds really became clear once he was up against an opponent of Life's caliber. Defaulting to the same reactor hellion -> bio mine, and consistently moving out at very bad times. Very little use of speed vacs with success, and almost no incorporation of hellbats into his builds. I feel like he was just using bio/mine as a template because it is popular in the metagame (if you can even call it that). The only other notable series against zerg (ro16?), it was clear he won with better mechanics and late game expo management. Also, that series against Innovation was very close, and I honestly think that Innovation might have had a better chance at beating Life's playstyle. Unfortunately for him, he had to play Flash, who clearly had better late game mechanics + tactics.
agree with this, he stuck to the same playstyle and composition even though Life was winning him with it over and over again lol. I do wonder what Innovation vs. Life would've been like. I do get the feeling that Innovation would've made Life fight more for the win than Flash did with all the drops and such but who knows.
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For the most part Life won with WoL strategies and units despite Terran and Protoss have seemingly stronger new units to compliment their play. He showed why Zerg (at the top levels of play -- and that is what we are concerned with) need no buff or nerf.
He did play like Mozart though - and that is outside the scope of 99.8% of SC2 players.
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On March 18 2013 15:15 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 15:06 tronix wrote:On March 18 2013 13:27 Stratos_speAr wrote:
As a side note, was anyone concerned with the fact that we really saw nothing new from Zerg? We saw a ton of Mothership Core + Oracle as well as Hellbats + Widow Mines + Medivac boosts, but we saw a little bit of the Viper and really none of the Swarm Host (to my recollection). The only difference I noticed was that we saw more Hydra Roach, since Hydras get that speed upgrade now. Granted, I didn't watch everything this weekend, but still. Leenock showcased a few games that highlighted the strengths and weaknesses of the swarm host. Check out the series against BabyKnight. HoTS zerg might not have new units until around hive tech, but there is still the option of getting earlier burrow + ovie speed. Also, buffed hydras and mutas give a lot more options for the mid game. Not necessarily new units, but the buffed hydras might as well be considering how little people used them in WoL. All in all, i think if Flash was playing at his peak (assuming Life was playing at his peak), then I think Flash could have taken the finals. His lack of experience in HoTS builds really became clear once he was up against an opponent of Life's caliber. Defaulting to the same reactor hellion -> bio mine, and consistently moving out at very bad times. Very little use of speed vacs with success, and almost no incorporation of hellbats into his builds. I feel like he was just using bio/mine as a template because it is popular in the metagame (if you can even call it that). The only other notable series against zerg (ro16?), it was clear he won with better mechanics and late game expo management. Also, that series against Innovation was very close, and I honestly think that Innovation might have had a better chance at beating Life's playstyle. Unfortunately for him, he had to play Flash, who clearly had better late game mechanics + tactics. agree with this, he stuck to the same playstyle and composition even though Life was winning him with it over and over again lol. I do wonder what Innovation vs. Life would've been like. I do get the feeling that Innovation would've made Life fight more for the win than Flash did with all the drops and such but who knows.
Flash also does the multi-drop harass-type of play against both Protoss and Zerg, but he couldn't get a foothold on his third base most of the time which is a requirement for him to macro like a monster with the medivacs and bio. Basically, Life didn't allow him the opportunity to do so.
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Flash vs Parting series good? or just skip it to watch Flash vs Inno?
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I didn't really mind DJ Wheat's commentary. He doesn't know much but he at least knows that he doesn't know much so he only says obvious things and uses some decent logic. In my opinion, Day9 (who also doesn't know much) trying to analyse all the time and almost always being incorrect(That game 1 analysis...) is a much larger offender.
Overall, Flash didn't really scout enough. He scouted the banelings late, Brood lords late, extra bases late, and so on. His micro also felt quite weak. I think that Last played better. If Last had been on the other side of the bracket, Life vs Last would likely have been a better finals. Even so, Life definitely shows that Zerg can hold its own in HotS at least at the highest level.
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On March 18 2013 15:20 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 15:15 BigFan wrote:On March 18 2013 15:06 tronix wrote:On March 18 2013 13:27 Stratos_speAr wrote:
As a side note, was anyone concerned with the fact that we really saw nothing new from Zerg? We saw a ton of Mothership Core + Oracle as well as Hellbats + Widow Mines + Medivac boosts, but we saw a little bit of the Viper and really none of the Swarm Host (to my recollection). The only difference I noticed was that we saw more Hydra Roach, since Hydras get that speed upgrade now. Granted, I didn't watch everything this weekend, but still. Leenock showcased a few games that highlighted the strengths and weaknesses of the swarm host. Check out the series against BabyKnight. HoTS zerg might not have new units until around hive tech, but there is still the option of getting earlier burrow + ovie speed. Also, buffed hydras and mutas give a lot more options for the mid game. Not necessarily new units, but the buffed hydras might as well be considering how little people used them in WoL. All in all, i think if Flash was playing at his peak (assuming Life was playing at his peak), then I think Flash could have taken the finals. His lack of experience in HoTS builds really became clear once he was up against an opponent of Life's caliber. Defaulting to the same reactor hellion -> bio mine, and consistently moving out at very bad times. Very little use of speed vacs with success, and almost no incorporation of hellbats into his builds. I feel like he was just using bio/mine as a template because it is popular in the metagame (if you can even call it that). The only other notable series against zerg (ro16?), it was clear he won with better mechanics and late game expo management. Also, that series against Innovation was very close, and I honestly think that Innovation might have had a better chance at beating Life's playstyle. Unfortunately for him, he had to play Flash, who clearly had better late game mechanics + tactics. agree with this, he stuck to the same playstyle and composition even though Life was winning him with it over and over again lol. I do wonder what Innovation vs. Life would've been like. I do get the feeling that Innovation would've made Life fight more for the win than Flash did with all the drops and such but who knows. Flash also does the multi-drop harass-type of play against both Protoss and Zerg, but he couldn't get a foothold on his third base most of the time which is a requirement for him to macro like a monster with the medivacs and bio. Basically, Life didn't allow him the opportunity to do so.
The thing is that once Flash sorts out his early game, hes going to be unstoppable. Flash's multitasking, decision making and macro is impeccable as the game goes.
So, we'll have to see and it will be the first HOTS GSL that this will be put into the test. Loving this sort of unintended rivalry going on.
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Amazing tournament, Flash and Life are both badasses but Life was just unstoppable. No zerg comes close presently and all the zerg pros who were crying that there would be no zerg in ro8 (like stephano) need to just study his play.
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On March 18 2013 15:23 YyapSsap wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 15:20 KanoCoke wrote:On March 18 2013 15:15 BigFan wrote:On March 18 2013 15:06 tronix wrote:On March 18 2013 13:27 Stratos_speAr wrote:
As a side note, was anyone concerned with the fact that we really saw nothing new from Zerg? We saw a ton of Mothership Core + Oracle as well as Hellbats + Widow Mines + Medivac boosts, but we saw a little bit of the Viper and really none of the Swarm Host (to my recollection). The only difference I noticed was that we saw more Hydra Roach, since Hydras get that speed upgrade now. Granted, I didn't watch everything this weekend, but still. Leenock showcased a few games that highlighted the strengths and weaknesses of the swarm host. Check out the series against BabyKnight. HoTS zerg might not have new units until around hive tech, but there is still the option of getting earlier burrow + ovie speed. Also, buffed hydras and mutas give a lot more options for the mid game. Not necessarily new units, but the buffed hydras might as well be considering how little people used them in WoL. All in all, i think if Flash was playing at his peak (assuming Life was playing at his peak), then I think Flash could have taken the finals. His lack of experience in HoTS builds really became clear once he was up against an opponent of Life's caliber. Defaulting to the same reactor hellion -> bio mine, and consistently moving out at very bad times. Very little use of speed vacs with success, and almost no incorporation of hellbats into his builds. I feel like he was just using bio/mine as a template because it is popular in the metagame (if you can even call it that). The only other notable series against zerg (ro16?), it was clear he won with better mechanics and late game expo management. Also, that series against Innovation was very close, and I honestly think that Innovation might have had a better chance at beating Life's playstyle. Unfortunately for him, he had to play Flash, who clearly had better late game mechanics + tactics. agree with this, he stuck to the same playstyle and composition even though Life was winning him with it over and over again lol. I do wonder what Innovation vs. Life would've been like. I do get the feeling that Innovation would've made Life fight more for the win than Flash did with all the drops and such but who knows. Flash also does the multi-drop harass-type of play against both Protoss and Zerg, but he couldn't get a foothold on his third base most of the time which is a requirement for him to macro like a monster with the medivacs and bio. Basically, Life didn't allow him the opportunity to do so. The thing is that once Flash sorts out his early game, hes going to be unstoppable. Flash's multitasking, decision making and macro is impeccable as the game goes. So, we'll have to see and it will be the first HOTS GSL that this will be put into the test. Loving this sort of unintended rivalry going on.
It would suck if they met each other too early though. Needs to be at least on the round of 8 or we'll probably end up with Flash dying to two timing attacks in a row after winning the first set.
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So, does anybody know why Flash never used hellbats? Wouldnt battle hellbat/marine completely destroy mutaling bling, in particular life's style of just ling/bling until 11+ minutes?
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I apologize for asking something that I`m sure has already been discussed, but what was peak viewership numbers?
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Peak viewership for the final?
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On March 18 2013 15:43 Hellfury wrote:
I apologize for asking something that I`m sure has already been discussed, but what was peak viewership numbers?
The final had 153k+ at one point, it had 144k on the red stream and another ~9k in the blue stream (for the same game)
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On March 18 2013 15:43 Hellfury wrote:
I apologize for asking something that I`m sure has already been discussed, but what was peak viewership numbers?
I wrote down the highest I saw on the main stream and it was 134,620 viewers, might have gone slightly higher but this is the number I got during flash vs life.
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Recommended games in Life vs Flash?
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On March 18 2013 15:41 TheRabidDeer wrote:
So, does anybody know why Flash never used hellbats? Wouldnt battle hellbat/marine completely destroy mutaling bling, in particular life's style of just ling/bling until 11+ minutes?
Once he begins to understand the game (its only been out for a week!), we'll see his own style. Thats why alot of players have been playing WoL-esque.
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On March 18 2013 15:41 TheRabidDeer wrote:
So, does anybody know why Flash never used hellbats? Wouldnt battle hellbat/marine completely destroy mutaling bling, in particular life's style of just ling/bling until 11+ minutes?
maybe he hasn't had experience in transitioning into it, on another note, widow mines are extremely fun to watch, they have an "OH SHIT" factor to them like spidermines, reavers, storm, ensnare and stop lurkers from broodwar.
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On March 18 2013 15:52 YyapSsap wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 15:41 TheRabidDeer wrote:
So, does anybody know why Flash never used hellbats? Wouldnt battle hellbat/marine completely destroy mutaling bling, in particular life's style of just ling/bling until 11+ minutes? Once he begins to understand the game (its only been out for a week!), we'll see his own style. Thats why alot of players have been playing WoL-esque.
He already had the hellions, why not just research hellbat mode? It almost felt like he didnt think that hellbats wouldve been good. Had Life only done that ling heavy style in one or two games, I could understand. But Life did it like every game, Flash had time to think about things between games.
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By the way, comparing Flash's 2rax in the middle of the map cheese to Life's baneling bust "cheese" is ridiculous, Life's attack was off 3 bases/drones and really early 1-1 upgrades and over 50 drones, he'd need to lose everything without dealing any damage for him to be out of the game. It's just a pressure build.
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On March 18 2013 16:03 Shikyo wrote:
By the way, comparing Flash's 2rax in the middle of the map cheese to Life's baneling bust "cheese" is ridiculous, Life's attack was off 3 bases/drones and really early 1-1 upgrades and over 50 drones, he'd need to lose everything without dealing any damage for him to be out of the game. It's just a pressure build.
I don't think I've ever heard of a 3 base baneling bust "pressure".
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On March 18 2013 16:03 Shikyo wrote:
By the way, comparing Flash's 2rax in the middle of the map cheese to Life's baneling bust "cheese" is ridiculous, Life's attack was off 3 bases/drones and really early 1-1 upgrades and over 50 drones, he'd need to lose everything without dealing any damage for him to be out of the game. It's just a pressure build.
oh my... why do people with so little knowledge always feel like they have to share their opinion
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EPT
