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On March 06 2013 18:23 furo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:19 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:17 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:16 hasuterrans wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:13 DasHawk wrote:
I really think zerg needs to have some way of dealing with HT's not sure what though... the pull has 9 range, feedback is 9 range you see what might work? Vipers being feedbacked? Ghosts being feedbacked? Deal with it  Difference being ghosts are projectile where as abduct isn't. Ghosts have EMP can potentially take out 5 templar at a time, abduct on the other hand grabs 1 unit and that's if toss doesn't feedback. Also ghosts have cloak. I really wish people understood the viper and why they aren't a counter to templar before posting something so stupid. vipers fly and will always be in good positions whereas ghost stuck also a 50/50 investment in these 200/200 fights is not a big deal, so ghosts cloak does not matter most of the time Uh doesn't matter if they fly.... Yeah I won't bother trying to reason with you anymore I can already see you won't ever understand. "uh it doesnt matter that they can be controlled better than groud unit, thats no argument, i dont want to listen to your opinion since its not my opinion. Furtheremore i'm zerg and my infester got nerfed, so i dont autowin my games"
Apparently Feedback cares about pathing?
Both are 9 range. Feedback hits instantly. Abduct has a fairly long animation. Guess which wins?
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On March 06 2013 18:21 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 06 2013 18:14 Qikz wrote:On March 06 2013 18:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:
This is why Zerg don't move out of storms.
Not whining about balance, just saying that with Roach and Hydra speed you'll still take a ton of Storm damage, plus that movement time is essentially free damage for a Toss army. That shouldn't matter. Moving out of the storm (especiallly with stuff like corrupters) is still better than sitting in it. Do people forget how fragile Bio is in storm? If Terran players never bothered as it gives the enemy "free damage" Terran would never beat Toss. Splitting is even better for zerg as collosus will hit less as the units are bigger and same goes for hydras. If I see a zerg complaining about void rays being imbalanced when they clump all their corrupters and hydras on top of each other and refuse to move from storm, I think I might get upset :/ Roaches and Hydras are roughly 25% slower than stimmed Marines/Marauders. That and I'm pretty sure Marines/Marauders have faster animation cancel. Not saying that it isn't possible to move out of storms, just that it's a lot slower to do so, and a lot of the time you'll actually deal less damage overall. I can understand roaches having less priority to split than hydras, but hydras are fragile (80), expensive (50 gas), have equal speed to stimmed marines on creep, and have the same attack speed as marines (.86, easier stutter stepping). Unless you just like to stare at the screen and not play, zergs should micro their hydras
yeah, but it's also a completly different situation... If you play MMM vs Protoss you mostly play against Zealots. You have a range advantage --> you want to move away from the opponent anyways
If you play roach/hydra you mostly play against stalkers, so you have a range disadvantage and when you move away you eat free shots
I don't say that Zerg should sit in the storms, but the dynamics are completly different because it's not Zealots + Colossus/Templar but Stalker+Colossus/Templar in PvZ. If you move against Zealots the Zealots can't attack either, if you move against stalkers you eat free shots against them.
Edit: Not to mention due to medivacs, Terran wants fights to take as long as possible, while zerg does not have that "I don't have to care about minor damage taken" advantage in a combat.
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United Kingdom20328 Posts
On March 06 2013 18:25 Megabuster123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:22 Adebisi wrote:On March 06 2013 18:09 Cyro wrote:
To Apollo and the other IEM casters, if anyone reads this - Would it be possible to talk about what the players are actually doing? Socke vs Vortix, Socke takes a very early nexus, before cyber core from gateway, it's not mentioned at all because camera and all casters are focused on probe blocking natural hatchery - something that happened every game for years - while vital information is being missed.
Robo is not mentioned until attack is coming and there's a second or third immortal on the way - robo bay not mentioned until thermal lance is finished - i could write like 50 more examples but i dont think there's need - i can get a general idea of game flow, but nothing timed precisely at all, just something like "he got a stargate and then he got a robo at some point" and i know there could be much better information communicated for those trying to learn HOTS at master level or greater
I enjoy listening to casters but learning the new game is important to me, i dont want to waste time, and as it stands it seems like there is a lot more to learn by muting audio and staring at production tab and minimap with a notepad - i know you guys are good enough to make listening to casters a far superior option :D
Anyone else thinking the same or is it just me? I'm really not sure where you're coming from, I showed every time Socke built a new building, nexus timing, gas timing, core timing... Your obsing was excellent as always. Don't pay attention to the criticism in LR's.
I was not criticizing Adebisi, actually quite a big fan
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On March 06 2013 18:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:23 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:19 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:17 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:16 hasuterrans wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:13 DasHawk wrote:
I really think zerg needs to have some way of dealing with HT's not sure what though... the pull has 9 range, feedback is 9 range you see what might work? Vipers being feedbacked? Ghosts being feedbacked? Deal with it Difference being ghosts are projectile where as abduct isn't. Ghosts have EMP can potentially take out 5 templar at a time, abduct on the other hand grabs 1 unit and that's if toss doesn't feedback. Also ghosts have cloak. I really wish people understood the viper and why they aren't a counter to templar before posting something so stupid. vipers fly and will always be in good positions whereas ghost stuck also a 50/50 investment in these 200/200 fights is not a big deal, so ghosts cloak does not matter most of the time Uh doesn't matter if they fly.... Yeah I won't bother trying to reason with you anymore I can already see you won't ever understand. "uh it doesnt matter that they can be controlled better than groud unit, thats no argument, i dont want to listen to your opinion since its not my opinion. Furtheremore i'm zerg and my infester got nerfed, so i dont autowin my games" Apparently Feedback cares about pathing? Both are 9 range. Feedback hits instantly. Abduct has a fairly long animation. Guess which wins?
Any reason why zergs aren't using 10 range fungal with their roach/hydra/viper comp? No, not WoL style with 30 of them but incorporating a few into your army would be wonders especially against a foreign player he keeps them clumped up (Socke).
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
Do we not get to see Sting vs Violet? I really hope today is something other than PvZ all day :p
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On March 06 2013 18:29 Qikz wrote:
Do we not get to see Sting vs Violet? I really hope today is something other than PvZ all day :p
Violet was having PC problems
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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since the IEM guys are reading this:
pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaase dont continue showing PvZ all day.
it was the dominating matchup yesterday and the first two games today are PvZ as well.
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On March 06 2013 18:23 Swordland wrote:
Each time I see Nathanias stream I see his face only....does he ever stream games? Seriously Ive looked at his stream about 20 times, and I never see a game on his stream.
Also, what games have been played other than socke vs vortix
Not his fault. He is waiting or was waiting for Violet.
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On March 06 2013 18:28 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 06 2013 18:23 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:19 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:17 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:16 hasuterrans wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:13 DasHawk wrote:
I really think zerg needs to have some way of dealing with HT's not sure what though... the pull has 9 range, feedback is 9 range you see what might work? Vipers being feedbacked? Ghosts being feedbacked? Deal with it Difference being ghosts are projectile where as abduct isn't. Ghosts have EMP can potentially take out 5 templar at a time, abduct on the other hand grabs 1 unit and that's if toss doesn't feedback. Also ghosts have cloak. I really wish people understood the viper and why they aren't a counter to templar before posting something so stupid. vipers fly and will always be in good positions whereas ghost stuck also a 50/50 investment in these 200/200 fights is not a big deal, so ghosts cloak does not matter most of the time Uh doesn't matter if they fly.... Yeah I won't bother trying to reason with you anymore I can already see you won't ever understand. "uh it doesnt matter that they can be controlled better than groud unit, thats no argument, i dont want to listen to your opinion since its not my opinion. Furtheremore i'm zerg and my infester got nerfed, so i dont autowin my games" Apparently Feedback cares about pathing? Both are 9 range. Feedback hits instantly. Abduct has a fairly long animation. Guess which wins? Any reason why zergs aren't using 10 range fungal with their roach/hydra/viper comp? No, not WoL style with 30 of them but incorporating a few into your army would be wonders especially against a foreign player he keeps them clumped up (Socke).
Hm in general roach/hydra is a composition should not be used in hots right now. It really is a bad style even with viper support. Swarmhost/hydra/corruptor is a much, much stronger and reliable way to play zvp right now. Mutas are good to if they don't open up to heavy phoenix as well ^_^.
I personally don't add in infestors cause hydra/swarmhost/corruptor is pretty gas intensive but adding in a couple infestors isn't a bad idea either just I think zergs forget about it (me being included).
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On March 06 2013 18:30 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:28 nomyx wrote:On March 06 2013 18:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 06 2013 18:23 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:19 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:17 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:16 hasuterrans wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 furo wrote:
[quote]
the pull has 9 range, feedback is 9 range
you see what might work? Vipers being feedbacked? Ghosts being feedbacked? Deal with it Difference being ghosts are projectile where as abduct isn't. Ghosts have EMP can potentially take out 5 templar at a time, abduct on the other hand grabs 1 unit and that's if toss doesn't feedback. Also ghosts have cloak. I really wish people understood the viper and why they aren't a counter to templar before posting something so stupid. vipers fly and will always be in good positions whereas ghost stuck also a 50/50 investment in these 200/200 fights is not a big deal, so ghosts cloak does not matter most of the time Uh doesn't matter if they fly.... Yeah I won't bother trying to reason with you anymore I can already see you won't ever understand. "uh it doesnt matter that they can be controlled better than groud unit, thats no argument, i dont want to listen to your opinion since its not my opinion. Furtheremore i'm zerg and my infester got nerfed, so i dont autowin my games" Apparently Feedback cares about pathing? Both are 9 range. Feedback hits instantly. Abduct has a fairly long animation. Guess which wins? Any reason why zergs aren't using 10 range fungal with their roach/hydra/viper comp? No, not WoL style with 30 of them but incorporating a few into your army would be wonders especially against a foreign player he keeps them clumped up (Socke). Hm in general roach/hydra is a composition should not be used in hots right now. It really is a bad style even with viper support. Swarmhost/hydra/corruptor is a much, much stronger and reliable way to play zvp right now. Mutas are good to if they don't open up to heavy phoenix as well ^_^.
yeah, I was a bit confused to see all the huge amounts of roach / hydra yesterday. The only time I saw SH were from Ret vs MC and Slivko tried using them on Metropolis (to protect his choke)
Nerchio vs HasuObs did have sick muta play, I think that was the first game broadcasted yesterday.
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On March 06 2013 18:28 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 06 2013 18:23 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:20 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:19 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:17 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:16 hasuterrans wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 blade55555 wrote:On March 06 2013 18:15 furo wrote:On March 06 2013 18:13 DasHawk wrote:
I really think zerg needs to have some way of dealing with HT's not sure what though... the pull has 9 range, feedback is 9 range you see what might work? Vipers being feedbacked? Ghosts being feedbacked? Deal with it Difference being ghosts are projectile where as abduct isn't. Ghosts have EMP can potentially take out 5 templar at a time, abduct on the other hand grabs 1 unit and that's if toss doesn't feedback. Also ghosts have cloak. I really wish people understood the viper and why they aren't a counter to templar before posting something so stupid. vipers fly and will always be in good positions whereas ghost stuck also a 50/50 investment in these 200/200 fights is not a big deal, so ghosts cloak does not matter most of the time Uh doesn't matter if they fly.... Yeah I won't bother trying to reason with you anymore I can already see you won't ever understand. "uh it doesnt matter that they can be controlled better than groud unit, thats no argument, i dont want to listen to your opinion since its not my opinion. Furtheremore i'm zerg and my infester got nerfed, so i dont autowin my games" Apparently Feedback cares about pathing? Both are 9 range. Feedback hits instantly. Abduct has a fairly long animation. Guess which wins? Any reason why zergs aren't using 10 range fungal with their roach/hydra/viper comp? No, not WoL style with 30 of them but incorporating a few into your army would be wonders especially against a foreign player he keeps them clumped up (Socke).
Fungal doesn't stop Feedback or Storms. Maybe if you get lucky and manage to chain three straight shots before engaging, it might work out. Otherwise, you're not making Abduct any better and you're not stopping the AoE damage.
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Violet vs Sting starting on Nathanias right now.
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ultra ling viper is very strong too, especially with muta techswitches
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United States97276 Posts
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It's Sting time!!!  I'm pretty excited to see what he has got to bring to the hots table
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On March 06 2013 18:33 Insoleet wrote:ultra ling viper is very strong too, especially with muta techswitches
Infact that's one thing I was surprised about. I don;t think I saw a single Ultra yesterday :S
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EPT
