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I do think that Arkanoid-snipers probably have it really tough though, unless they have really solid fundamentals and game sense.
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On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA.
To each is own. Especially when you have been playing a game 2 1/2 years longer then somebody else. -.- time will tell  Also isn't the only Kespa map added to this GSL Planet S? If you look at the results Kespa vs ESF on Planet S is 100% kespa win. Even though the sample size is pretty small.
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On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Now respect other's peoples opinion as well.
From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life.
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On January 31 2013 14:10 babylon wrote:
I do think that Arkanoid-snipers probably have it really tough though, unless they have really solid fundamentals and game sense.
Well I don't know what sort of career snipers without solid fundamentals or game sense really expected anyway.
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On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA.
Cloud Kingdom is the only map similar to proleague in these qualifiers.
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On January 31 2013 14:12 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now respect other's peoples opinion as well. From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life.
You must not be watching Proleague on the same days I'm watching it.
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why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame
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On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA.
Of cause it matters, how do you explain most of ACE players in KESPA beat by their trainee or bench? it's about preparation.
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LOL
John is evil.
dat schadenfreude!
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On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool.
Prior to season 1, the only different maps I believe were Arkanoid, Bifrost, Caldeum, and Planet S. Note that that means Kespa players had more practice on Planet S than ESF players. Afterwards, Antiga, Bifrost, Caldeum, and Entombed remain on Proleague, Even if ESF players had more practice time on the new maps (Icarus, Akilon Flats, and Planet S (which kespa players already know) they're new enough to where kespa players won't be that far behind.
Plus, it's a best of three. If I'm a losing kespa player, I'm going to pick one of the three maps that we share and I know. (Cloud Kingdom, Akilon Flats, Planet S for sure). To say that maps are a hindrance for the kespa players is silly. If I was one of them, you could get by with only practicing Proleague maps, and your ladder experience will carry you through daybreak, while Bel'Shir plays similar to Ohana which was on PL until round 3 which has JUST started. There are more than enough tools for kespa players to stay off of maps they aren't ready for.
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 Tear 2-1  TheSTC, qualifies for code A!
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On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame
Stephano actually not good enough.
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On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame
Stephano also said that he doesn't need to practice. Yet mass practices.
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On January 31 2013 13:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate They do care about individual leagues. But in Flashes interview he made it pretty clear that he wasn't putting all his heart into GSL. I guess, I can't base every player off one's opinion though.
It's easy for a player to claim that he isn't completely interested in an individual league when he keeps losing in Code A and failing to get into Code S time after time.
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On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame
Why listen to Stephano about practice? Given his comments on practice regime, he's either the laziest progamer out there or a liar.
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On January 31 2013 14:14 MisterFred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:12 LighT. wrote:On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now respect other's peoples opinion as well. From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life. You must not be watching Proleague on the same days I'm watching it.
Maybe.
I only watch the KT, SKT T1, CJ and WJS matches.
and catch Jangbang's and Ty's when I can.
But i mean, if you watch nothing but STX games; surely you can state they're bad.
KT, SKT T1 CJ and WJS consistently produce very good games.
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the problem is you're never going to get a real answer as to who is better if kespa keeps playing in their little box all by themselves in a bo1 format, I made a post earlier in this thread about comparing that.
and when they don't do well in GSL It's because they didn't have enough time to prepare or something, just excuses city. having the team league be your main focus is going to screw up being able to judge anything.
also responding to an earlier post, esf don't have a pro league to play in but they do play in various international qualifiers, tournaments and IPL's team league ( very important for ESF since the finalists get to send 6 players with travel paid to IPL 6 )
On January 31 2013 14:16 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:14 MisterFred wrote:On January 31 2013 14:12 LighT. wrote:On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now respect other's peoples opinion as well. From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life. You must not be watching Proleague on the same days I'm watching it. Maybe. I only watch the KT, SKT T1, CJ and WJS matches. and catch Jangbang's and Ty's when I can. But i mean, if you watch nothing but STX games; surely you can state they're bad. KT, SKT T1 CJ and WJS consistently produce very good games.
SKT was just awful awful awful in round 2 and I'm saying that as a SKT fan
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The excuse that KeSPA players don't have time to practice for GSL prelims is kinda moot to be honest. The only case is for certain players who have to practice specifically for Bifrost, Arkanoid or Caldeum.
Cloud Kingdom is in both Proleague and on ladder. Daybreak's also on ladder, which despite what they say, KeSPA players still spend a lot of time on outside of dedicated practice sessions.
The only map they have to weary of is Whirlwind, but they've been through Whirlwind last GSL qualifiers. Also Whirlwind plays out kind of similar to most maps as it's not very unconventional like Bifrost, Arkanoid or Caldeum.
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EPT
I love watching him lose. almost as much as seeing artosis lose
Tear 2-1 
TheStC
