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On January 31 2013 14:12 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now respect other's peoples opinion as well. From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life.
The only opinion ive shared was when I said eSF players overall which based on GSL results between KeSPA and eSF players and the quality of games PL is producing compared to Code S, I dont see how you can argue (note some KeSPA players can compete with everybody) I think everything else i said was a fact.
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On January 31 2013 14:16 ssg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame Why listen to Stephano about practice? Given his comments on practice regime, he's either the laziest progamer out there or a liar.
He's probably lying to make it look like he has some incredibly ability or something.
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On January 31 2013 14:15 dustinth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Of cause it matters, how do you explain most of ACE players in KESPA beat by their trainee or bench? it's about preparation.
Yes. The trainees beat the ace players because they played better. Prepared better, played better.
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On January 31 2013 14:17 pdd wrote:
The excuse that KeSPA players don't have time to practice for GSL prelims is kinda moot to be honest. The only case is for certain players who have to practice specifically for Bifrost, Arkanoid or Caldeum.
Cloud Kingdom is in both Proleague and on ladder. Daybreak's also on ladder, which despite what they say, KeSPA players still spend a lot of time on outside of dedicated practice sessions.
The only map they have to weary of is Whirlwind, but they've been through Whirlwind last GSL qualifiers. Also Whirlwind plays out kind of similar to most maps as it's not very unconventional like Bifrost, Arkanoid or Caldeum.
I wasn't referring to the GSL prelims. I was talking about this seasons up/down matches and now GSL in general since they have to practice for both leagues extensively.
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On January 31 2013 14:17 Dodgin wrote:the problem is you're never going to get a real answer as to who is better if kespa keeps playing in their little box all by themselves in a bo1 format, I made a post earlier in this thread about comparing that. and when they don't do well in GSL It's because they didn't have enough time to prepare or something, just excuses city. having the team league be your main focus is going to screw up being able to judge anything. also responding to an earlier post, esf don't have a pro league to play in but they do play in various international qualifiers, tournaments and IPL's team league ( very important for ESF since the finalists get to send 6 players with travel paid to IPL 6 ) Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:16 LighT. wrote:On January 31 2013 14:14 MisterFred wrote:On January 31 2013 14:12 LighT. wrote:On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:
[quote]
its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now respect other's peoples opinion as well. From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life. You must not be watching Proleague on the same days I'm watching it. Maybe. I only watch the KT, SKT T1, CJ and WJS matches. and catch Jangbang's and Ty's when I can. But i mean, if you watch nothing but STX games; surely you can state they're bad. KT, SKT T1 CJ and WJS consistently produce very good games. SKT was just awful awful awful in round 2 and I'm saying that as a SKT fan
Well their record in Round 2 says it all.
And SKT T1 members getting their butt handed to them by other teams are very good games to me 
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On January 31 2013 14:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:16 ssg wrote:On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame Why listen to Stephano about practice? Given his comments on practice regime, he's either the laziest progamer out there or a liar. He's probably lying to make it look like he has some incredibly ability or something.
I heard that some Koreans also exaggerate the amount of time they practice (i cant remember who said this though)
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On January 31 2013 14:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:16 ssg wrote:On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame Why listen to Stephano about practice? Given his comments on practice regime, he's either the laziest progamer out there or a liar. He's probably lying to make it look like he has some incredibly ability or something.
Lifephano Zone, man. They can not practice and make the other player look like a scrub, apparently.
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On January 31 2013 14:17 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:12 LighT. wrote:On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now respect other's peoples opinion as well. From my perspective; eSF and Kespa are equal in skill level from the bottom to the top. except Kespa teams seems to cultivate academies better than eSF teams, while eSF has the best player in sc2: Life. The only opinion ive shared was when I said eSF players overall which based on GSL results between KeSPA and eSF players and the quality of games PL is producing compared to Code S, I dont see how you can argue (note some KeSPA players can compete with everybody) I think everything else i said was a fact.
I've made this argument at least 3 different times on other threads and I cant believe I'm bringing it up for the 4th time.
but you CANT compare Code S to SPL
Comparing the two is retardation at its finest.
Code S is a individual league for the top tier players. SPL is a team league composed of b teams, a-teamers and hell even trainees..
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On January 31 2013 14:19 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:16 ssg wrote:On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame Why listen to Stephano about practice? Given his comments on practice regime, he's either the laziest progamer out there or a liar. He's probably lying to make it look like he has some incredibly ability or something. I heard that some Koreans also exaggerate the amount of time they practice (i cant remember who said this though)
Of course they do. Anyone in a public sphere lies about numbers. Transparency doesn't exist for the most part when money is involved =P
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On January 31 2013 14:15 dustinth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:45 Dodgin wrote:
almost all the good esf players are already in gsl, almost all the good kespa players are not yet in gsl. it would be weird if more rookies/esf qualified than kespa when you look at the sheer number of them trying out, including all the trainees. Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Of cause it matters, how do you explain most of ACE players in KESPA beat by their trainee or bench? it's about preparation.
this happens in eSF teams too (DRG lost to Noblesse in Code A last season. When you are playing teammates, weird things seem to happen.)
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On January 31 2013 14:20 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:16 ssg wrote:On January 31 2013 14:15 ETisME wrote:
why are you all arguing about map pool? stephano himself said he only needs 4 days (or 4 games?) to get used to the maps
Kespa pro certainly train in those maps specifically yea, but they also have to play ladder to face off other opponents to not fall behind in the metagame Why listen to Stephano about practice? Given his comments on practice regime, he's either the laziest progamer out there or a liar. He's probably lying to make it look like he has some incredibly ability or something. Lifephano Zone, man. They can not practice and make the other player look like a scrub, apparently.
Life practices a ton. He said the increased and enforced practice on ST was why he became so successful so fast on ST.
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Those Zergs are sure taking their sweet time for the finals
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On January 31 2013 14:23 LighT. wrote:
Those Zergs are sure taking their sweet time for the finals
lol they sure are.
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On January 31 2013 14:21 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:15 dustinth wrote:On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 13:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Yeah but it's strange that their trying out at all. With Pro League being a major factor and all. maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Of cause it matters, how do you explain most of ACE players in KESPA beat by their trainee or bench? it's about preparation. this happens in eSF teams too (DRG lost to Noblesse in Code A last season. When you are playing teammates, weird things seem to happen.)
No, not from the same team except for Bisu. Overall, KESPA bench are doing much better than their ACE players.
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On January 31 2013 14:24 dustinth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:21 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:15 dustinth wrote:On January 31 2013 14:10 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:06 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 14:04 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 14:01 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 31 2013 13:56 TommyP wrote:On January 31 2013 13:52 Tsutchie wrote:On January 31 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
maybe the opinions of some tl netizens that they don't care about individual leagues are not so accurate its not that they don't care, its that they don't have the time to prepare for the individual leagues like non-proleague players. coming to the qualifiers to play a few games aren't detrimental to the team but i think if the qualifiers were held on the same day as a proleague game. they wouldn't show up to the qualifiers Many players only pracitce by playing ladder. I mean yea they'll study their replays if they can, but in this they dont know who theyre going to play anyway so thats actually a terrible excuse. The "they don't have time" is complete BS Well, I don't know about that. It may seem like they have plenty of time but if their main priority is training for a whole team of players (Pro League) then they wouldn't really have that much time if you think about it. Whereas the ESF players only has to focus on one group and that's their GSL group. If players only practice by playing on ladder (i know for a fact thats all DRG does for example) then none of that is relevant. When you just practice ladder, youre just focusing on yourself and not your opponent so thats irrelevant. The map pool buddy. Kespa players have to practice for an almost completely different map pool. Yea, but how many other tournaments do top eSF players play in that have differnet map pools, plus kespa maps are being used in GSL this season. Its nothing about map pools, preparation or anything. Right now, overall eSF players are better than KeSPA. Of cause it matters, how do you explain most of ACE players in KESPA beat by their trainee or bench? it's about preparation. this happens in eSF teams too (DRG lost to Noblesse in Code A last season. When you are playing teammates, weird things seem to happen.) No, not from the same team except for Bisu. Overall, KESPA bench are doing much better than their ACE players.
How do you reason that? Can you please give me some stats or more examples?
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Killer and GGaemo play Starcraft 2?
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On January 31 2013 14:25 Shellshock1122 wrote: Arthur 2-1  Sacsri Dwarf Lord in Code A. Alert Fionn
Sacsri joins Bisu and Best amongst the SKT T1 members who made the finals and lost.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On January 31 2013 14:26 GolemMadness wrote:
Killer and GGaemo play Starcraft 2?
GGaemo heard they removed spider mines and began practicing immediately. Nobody has told him about HotS yet.
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EPT
