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[Code S] Ro32 Group A 2013 GSL Season 1 - Page 67

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
January 22 2013 13:44 GMT
#1321
On January 22 2013 22:06 prophetGMS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 21:59 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:58 prophetGMS wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:50 prophetGMS wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:39 KadaverBB wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:38 Berceno wrote:
after this game, I only can say that sc2 wol is a fail, its just stupid, and hots doesn't look like is gonna fix this really BAD designed game.... well


Weird, how did you come to that conclusion after this fucking nailbiter of a game?^^


same for me
because the all in was the perfect counter of Symbol BO but WTF this result is just incredible thanks to free units.

It's maybe just a sad and pissed off moment but after the GomTvT and the zerg "imbalance" last year I can't find this game anymore exciting.

And HOTS (for me) is also a disaster. SC2 just need some time to find a good balance, we are close to it but no, blizzard arrives with a complete new game.

I'm going to cry in front of the last BW OSLs
thanks Jangbi and crown prince to offer me this possibility.

you will never like sc2 regardless of how good it is because you are living in the past, this is the truth and you cant deny it



Maybe but I still enjoy sometimes SC2 but I had so high expectations on it, I'm just now a little bit sad. And as I said WoL started to find a balance with few problems mainly due to map but then HOTS is coming...

I prefer a long wait to reach the perfection than just new stuffs to have a quick pleasure :-)


Well, to be fair, the game you enjoyed, BW, took quite a long time to refine as well.



Exactly I don't deny that fact. I took few year notably because of the innovation of BW to find the balance. But when this balance was reached BW was close to perfection for a long time. WoL had the possibility to do the same but HOTS is coming with a lot of new problems. We won't have a decent fair and balance game with HOTS before a long time.

But you 're right things have to change but don't do it too fast. (I'm sure LoL is also a problem for Blizzard so they have to move quickly, but it's economics issues it never good for the quality of the game)


Well BW isnt a stand alone game, its the expansion to Starcraft... so the fact that HOTS is coming is historically a good thing, not a bad thing.

Sure it will be patchy at first, but it'll smooth out.
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
January 22 2013 13:45 GMT
#1322
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.

Not necessarily, Zerg all ins are notoriously weak in fact. They usually depend on surprise entirely; generally if they're scouted they are rendered completely impotent.
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
January 22 2013 13:47 GMT
#1323
On January 22 2013 22:39 Alpina wrote:
No VODs for free?

Only first match as usual or was it changed ?
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
January 22 2013 13:52 GMT
#1324
On January 22 2013 22:45 sparklyresidue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.

Not necessarily, Zerg all ins are notoriously weak in fact. They usually depend on surprise entirely; generally if they're scouted they are rendered completely impotent.


That is key point. This all in wasn't scouted. And Zerg all in like roach bust, bane bust does well when unscouted. As well as muta ling bling bust in ZvT.
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
January 22 2013 13:54 GMT
#1325
On January 22 2013 22:52 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:45 sparklyresidue wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.

Not necessarily, Zerg all ins are notoriously weak in fact. They usually depend on surprise entirely; generally if they're scouted they are rendered completely impotent.


That is key point. This all in wasn't scouted. And Zerg all in like roach bust, bane bust does well when unscouted. As well as muta ling bling bust in ZvT.

Right, but it's a different dynamic if the Zerg is defending, right?
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
prophetGMS
Profile Joined November 2012
France129 Posts
January 22 2013 13:54 GMT
#1326
On January 22 2013 22:44 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:06 prophetGMS wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:59 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:58 prophetGMS wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:50 prophetGMS wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:39 KadaverBB wrote:
On January 22 2013 21:38 Berceno wrote:
after this game, I only can say that sc2 wol is a fail, its just stupid, and hots doesn't look like is gonna fix this really BAD designed game.... well


Weird, how did you come to that conclusion after this fucking nailbiter of a game?^^


same for me
because the all in was the perfect counter of Symbol BO but WTF this result is just incredible thanks to free units.

It's maybe just a sad and pissed off moment but after the GomTvT and the zerg "imbalance" last year I can't find this game anymore exciting.

And HOTS (for me) is also a disaster. SC2 just need some time to find a good balance, we are close to it but no, blizzard arrives with a complete new game.

I'm going to cry in front of the last BW OSLs
thanks Jangbi and crown prince to offer me this possibility.

you will never like sc2 regardless of how good it is because you are living in the past, this is the truth and you cant deny it



Maybe but I still enjoy sometimes SC2 but I had so high expectations on it, I'm just now a little bit sad. And as I said WoL started to find a balance with few problems mainly due to map but then HOTS is coming...

I prefer a long wait to reach the perfection than just new stuffs to have a quick pleasure :-)


Well, to be fair, the game you enjoyed, BW, took quite a long time to refine as well.



Exactly I don't deny that fact. I took few year notably because of the innovation of BW to find the balance. But when this balance was reached BW was close to perfection for a long time. WoL had the possibility to do the same but HOTS is coming with a lot of new problems. We won't have a decent fair and balance game with HOTS before a long time.

But you 're right things have to change but don't do it too fast. (I'm sure LoL is also a problem for Blizzard so they have to move quickly, but it's economics issues it never good for the quality of the game)


Well BW isnt a stand alone game, its the expansion to Starcraft... so the fact that HOTS is coming is historically a good thing, not a bad thing.

Sure it will be patchy at first, but it'll smooth out.



True but progaming started essentially with BW :-)
except for FAST MAP (competitions were on SC original)
BroodWar for ever
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
January 22 2013 13:58 GMT
#1327
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.


Not really. There was nothing particularly greedy about what Symbol did. Creator didn't do a standard all in. It was delayed, to fake an expansion. The delay allowed Symbol to have Infestor tech out in time, which counters the kind of all in Creator was trying to do.

The entire Protoss metagame is about playing greedy. What is FFE? Protoss builds nothing but static defense, 1 Sentry, 1 Zealot and 1 Stalker until 8 minutes into the game and spend all their money on economy and tech. They can do this, because they can hold everything by spending Sentry energy for extremely cost efficient trades.

In the game on Daybreak against Byul, Byul had a larger army, Creator took a 3rd with barely any units, but when Byul kept losing units because of Forcefields and lost the game, did anyone complain about imbalance in this thread? No, everyone said Byul played badly attacking into a position he shouldn't have. The unit composition he had was not good enough to break what Creator had, and casters were the big factor.

It was much closer in this game, but Symbol had casters out in time, which countered the allin . He barely defended.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
January 22 2013 13:58 GMT
#1328
On January 22 2013 22:54 sparklyresidue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:52 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:45 sparklyresidue wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.

Not necessarily, Zerg all ins are notoriously weak in fact. They usually depend on surprise entirely; generally if they're scouted they are rendered completely impotent.


That is key point. This all in wasn't scouted. And Zerg all in like roach bust, bane bust does well when unscouted. As well as muta ling bling bust in ZvT.

Right, but it's a different dynamic if the Zerg is defending, right?


Not sure what you mean by that to be honest.
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
January 22 2013 14:00 GMT
#1329
Wouldn't surprise me if Parting and Squirtle are the only protoss advancing. Also wouldn't surprise me if only one of them advances (Or neither, but they have relatively easy groups both of them). :d Not expecting MC or Huk to make it out at all.
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
January 22 2013 14:00 GMT
#1330
Sad to see Creator get knocked out. I wanted to see a Toss make it through.
Guess I shouldn't complain though, because at least Life made it.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
January 22 2013 14:07 GMT
#1331
On January 22 2013 22:58 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.


Not really. There was nothing particularly greedy about what Symbol did. Creator didn't do a standard all in. It was delayed, to fake an expansion. The delay allowed Symbol to have Infestor tech out in time, which counters the kind of all in Creator was trying to do.

The entire Protoss metagame is about playing greedy. What is FFE? Protoss builds nothing but static defense, 1 Sentry, 1 Zealot and 1 Stalker until 8 minutes into the game and spend all their money on economy and tech. They can do this, because they can hold everything by spending Sentry energy for extremely cost efficient trades.

In the game on Daybreak against Byul, Byul had a larger army, Creator took a 3rd with barely any units, but when Byul kept losing units because of Forcefields and lost the game, did anyone complain about imbalance in this thread? No, everyone said Byul played badly attacking into a position he shouldn't have. The unit composition he had was not good enough to break what Creator had, and casters were the big factor.

It was much closer in this game, but Symbol had casters out in time, which countered the allin . He barely defended.


But the point is the flexibility of the Zerg. It is evident when you call Symbol's play not greedy. He was expanding to 4 bases, going to 85 drones, getting infestor tech on a very small army. If that is not greedy, I don't know what is.

As for FFE, that is countered by quick thirds by Zerg. That is why zergs complain about hard to take thirds, because if both sides play on 2 bases, FFE gives the toss a big advantage.

X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
January 22 2013 14:07 GMT
#1332
IS GOMTV.NET down or what?? i cant connect to it
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
January 22 2013 14:09 GMT
#1333
On January 22 2013 23:07 X3GoldDot wrote:
IS GOMTV.NET down or what?? i cant connect to it

It's working just fine for me
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
January 22 2013 14:09 GMT
#1334
Nooo Creator whyyyyy
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
Whalecore
Profile Joined March 2009
Norway1110 Posts
January 22 2013 14:10 GMT
#1335
Will there be VODs of these matches via Twitch? Or free GomTV VODs?
Playgu
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
January 22 2013 14:11 GMT
#1336
That hype video is sweet! hahah I can't believe they used that for Keen! Perfect <3
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
IamPryda
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1186 Posts
January 22 2013 14:15 GMT
#1337
On January 22 2013 22:58 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.


Not really. There was nothing particularly greedy about what Symbol did. Creator didn't do a standard all in. It was delayed, to fake an expansion. The delay allowed Symbol to have Infestor tech out in time, which counters the kind of all in Creator was trying to do.

The entire Protoss metagame is about playing greedy. What is FFE? Protoss builds nothing but static defense, 1 Sentry, 1 Zealot and 1 Stalker until 8 minutes into the game and spend all their money on economy and tech. They can do this, because they can hold everything by spending Sentry energy for extremely cost efficient trades.

In the game on Daybreak against Byul, Byul had a larger army, Creator took a 3rd with barely any units, but when Byul kept losing units because of Forcefields and lost the game, did anyone complain about imbalance in this thread? No, everyone said Byul played badly attacking into a position he shouldn't have. The unit composition he had was not good enough to break what Creator had, and casters were the big factor.

It was much closer in this game, but Symbol had casters out in time, which countered the allin . He barely defended.


The problem is Protoss basically have an expiration timer in the game vs Zerg. And while sure ff are great early game and mid game they become worthless later.
Moar banelings less qq
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
January 22 2013 14:16 GMT
#1338
On January 22 2013 23:07 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 22:58 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.


Not really. There was nothing particularly greedy about what Symbol did. Creator didn't do a standard all in. It was delayed, to fake an expansion. The delay allowed Symbol to have Infestor tech out in time, which counters the kind of all in Creator was trying to do.

The entire Protoss metagame is about playing greedy. What is FFE? Protoss builds nothing but static defense, 1 Sentry, 1 Zealot and 1 Stalker until 8 minutes into the game and spend all their money on economy and tech. They can do this, because they can hold everything by spending Sentry energy for extremely cost efficient trades.

In the game on Daybreak against Byul, Byul had a larger army, Creator took a 3rd with barely any units, but when Byul kept losing units because of Forcefields and lost the game, did anyone complain about imbalance in this thread? No, everyone said Byul played badly attacking into a position he shouldn't have. The unit composition he had was not good enough to break what Creator had, and casters were the big factor.

It was much closer in this game, but Symbol had casters out in time, which countered the allin . He barely defended.


But the point is the flexibility of the Zerg. It is evident when you call Symbol's play not greedy. He was expanding to 4 bases, going to 85 drones, getting infestor tech on a very small army. If that is not greedy, I don't know what is.

As for FFE, that is countered by quick thirds by Zerg. That is why zergs complain about hard to take thirds, because if both sides play on 2 bases, FFE gives the toss a big advantage.



Actually, it's Protoss who complain about hard to take 3rds. Go read any thread discussing maps, half the posts are "how is Protoss supposed to take a 3rd, it's too hard for Protoss to take a 3rd". It's for that reason Protoss complained about Antiga, Abyssal City and Belshir Vestige. Now GSL added rocks to the new version of Belshir to tighten chokes to make the 3rds easier for Protoss to defend using minimal units and Forcefields.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
January 22 2013 14:29 GMT
#1339
On January 22 2013 23:16 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 23:07 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:58 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.


Not really. There was nothing particularly greedy about what Symbol did. Creator didn't do a standard all in. It was delayed, to fake an expansion. The delay allowed Symbol to have Infestor tech out in time, which counters the kind of all in Creator was trying to do.

The entire Protoss metagame is about playing greedy. What is FFE? Protoss builds nothing but static defense, 1 Sentry, 1 Zealot and 1 Stalker until 8 minutes into the game and spend all their money on economy and tech. They can do this, because they can hold everything by spending Sentry energy for extremely cost efficient trades.

In the game on Daybreak against Byul, Byul had a larger army, Creator took a 3rd with barely any units, but when Byul kept losing units because of Forcefields and lost the game, did anyone complain about imbalance in this thread? No, everyone said Byul played badly attacking into a position he shouldn't have. The unit composition he had was not good enough to break what Creator had, and casters were the big factor.

It was much closer in this game, but Symbol had casters out in time, which countered the allin . He barely defended.


But the point is the flexibility of the Zerg. It is evident when you call Symbol's play not greedy. He was expanding to 4 bases, going to 85 drones, getting infestor tech on a very small army. If that is not greedy, I don't know what is.

As for FFE, that is countered by quick thirds by Zerg. That is why zergs complain about hard to take thirds, because if both sides play on 2 bases, FFE gives the toss a big advantage.



Actually, it's Protoss who complain about hard to take 3rds. Go read any thread discussing maps, half the posts are "how is Protoss supposed to take a 3rd, it's too hard for Protoss to take a 3rd". It's for that reason Protoss complained about Antiga, Abyssal City and Belshir Vestige. Now GSL added rocks to the new version of Belshir to tighten chokes to make the 3rds easier for Protoss to defend using minimal units and Forcefields.


No. I mean REALLY hard to take 3rds. These thirds you mentioned a hard to take because of multiple attack path and ramp widths. Which doesn't affect zergs. What I mean by hard to take for zergs is thirds that are in the middle of the map or really far from Mai and natural. Ones that you cannot get creep to.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
January 22 2013 14:34 GMT
#1340
On January 22 2013 23:29 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2013 23:16 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 23:07 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:58 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:42 vthree wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:33 sitromit wrote:
On January 22 2013 22:25 oGsTrueSmug wrote:
Terran and Protoss play greedy and rush tech and econ instead of safety, and it's just what they deserved and they should have played safer.
Zerg drones to 85, rushes up to infestors, and not only is it somehow totally legitimate, but they get to actually hold out because they can trade energy (fungals, ITs) for economy (actual units).
Kinda depressing to say the least.


So when Protoss forcefields to trade with insane unit efficiency, or uses Storms to kill a ton of units for energy, does that make you depressed as well?


I think he was more referring to the fact that zergs can hold an all-in even after extremely greedy play. Where as if the reverse happened, the Zerg all in would be impossible to stop.


Not really. There was nothing particularly greedy about what Symbol did. Creator didn't do a standard all in. It was delayed, to fake an expansion. The delay allowed Symbol to have Infestor tech out in time, which counters the kind of all in Creator was trying to do.

The entire Protoss metagame is about playing greedy. What is FFE? Protoss builds nothing but static defense, 1 Sentry, 1 Zealot and 1 Stalker until 8 minutes into the game and spend all their money on economy and tech. They can do this, because they can hold everything by spending Sentry energy for extremely cost efficient trades.

In the game on Daybreak against Byul, Byul had a larger army, Creator took a 3rd with barely any units, but when Byul kept losing units because of Forcefields and lost the game, did anyone complain about imbalance in this thread? No, everyone said Byul played badly attacking into a position he shouldn't have. The unit composition he had was not good enough to break what Creator had, and casters were the big factor.

It was much closer in this game, but Symbol had casters out in time, which countered the allin . He barely defended.


But the point is the flexibility of the Zerg. It is evident when you call Symbol's play not greedy. He was expanding to 4 bases, going to 85 drones, getting infestor tech on a very small army. If that is not greedy, I don't know what is.

As for FFE, that is countered by quick thirds by Zerg. That is why zergs complain about hard to take thirds, because if both sides play on 2 bases, FFE gives the toss a big advantage.



Actually, it's Protoss who complain about hard to take 3rds. Go read any thread discussing maps, half the posts are "how is Protoss supposed to take a 3rd, it's too hard for Protoss to take a 3rd". It's for that reason Protoss complained about Antiga, Abyssal City and Belshir Vestige. Now GSL added rocks to the new version of Belshir to tighten chokes to make the 3rds easier for Protoss to defend using minimal units and Forcefields.


No. I mean REALLY hard to take 3rds. These thirds you mentioned a hard to take because of multiple attack path and ramp widths. Which doesn't affect zergs. What I mean by hard to take for zergs is thirds that are in the middle of the map or really far from Mai and natural. Ones that you cannot get creep to.

So maps without "natural" thirds. Basically jungle basin or blocked TDA, blistering sands and shattered temple. You mean those?
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