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On December 20 2012 20:36 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:On December 20 2012 20:29 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 20 2012 20:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Zerg does not have a god-given right to 3 bases before tech. Stop crying because PartinG found a consistent way to punish greed. Posts like this kill my brain. Good argument. Next time add some content. Going 3 hatch before tech is how you stay even with a FFE protoss. It's common SC2 macro sense. Of course, it has risks. Pressure builds and/or all ins, and fake pressure builds with a 3rd. That's where the skill is involved, the Protoss trying to fool the Zerg into over/undercommiting to drones depending on whether they're going all in or fake --> 3rd. There is none of that with the sentry immortal all in. No fooling, no trickery, just I'm going to forcefield all your shit and there's nothing you can do about it besides hoping I mess up. Infestor/BL looks way more beatable to me after the fungal/IT mini-nerf then this.
That's outdated macro sense. Zerg has achieved cost-efficiency since the days of roach-hydra max and remax. A 2-base Zerg is not dead, he's just not ahead. 2-base Infestor would just LOL at this all-in, at which point you can probably DOUBLE expand safely while Toss tries for third. PartinG is keeping 16-minute Brood rushers honest, and that's completely okay.
Much as FF/Fungal/BL suck ass to play against, the MU is balanced (if you're Parting). It may be poorly designed for sure, but it is balanced for his level at least.
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On December 20 2012 20:36 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:On December 20 2012 20:29 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 20 2012 20:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Zerg does not have a god-given right to 3 bases before tech. Stop crying because PartinG found a consistent way to punish greed. Posts like this kill my brain. Good argument. Next time add some content. Going 3 hatch before tech is how you stay even with a FFE protoss. It's common SC2 macro sense. Of course, it has risks. Pressure builds and/or all ins, and fake pressure builds with a 3rd. That's where the skill is involved, the Protoss trying to fool the Zerg into over/undercommiting to drones depending on whether they're going all in or fake --> 3rd. There is none of that with the sentry immortal all in. No fooling, no trickery, just I'm going to forcefield all your shit and there's nothing you can do about it besides hoping I mess up. Infestor/BL looks way more beatable to me after the fungal/IT mini-nerf then this.
Infestor/BL has always been much more beatable than this. Sure, protoss were well under 50% against it, but it was doable with a good vortex, or good distractions + counterattacks like taking out the greater spire with warp prism harrass.
Plus the zerg has to survive until that point anyway, so protoss has several opportunities to win in the first 15-20 minutes. I'm not saying infestor/BL wasn't overpowered, but it wasn't virtually unbeatable like the Parting allin is.
But it's kind of like mass science vessels in BW TvZ... if the terran gets his perfect lategame composition, zerg is very unlikely to win the game. The difference is that in BW you could pick off sci vessels with scourge or plague to keep the count down... in SC2 protoss can't pick off BLs or infestors to keep it from getting out of hand.
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On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today
sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting
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On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city. he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting
so it really is the soul factor o.O
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I guess zergs should be glad the immortal/sentry allin exists, because otherwise blizzard would perhaps look at the zerg winrate and think a while, before removing zerg from the game rendering all those zerg players homeless and poor as they don't have the mechanics to play terran.
+ Show Spoiler +Then they will probably remove the warp from gates, nerf colossus, remove immortals, buff tanks and make SC2 the perfect PvT, PvP and TvT game.
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So we have
Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals
Cant think of a Zerg :<
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On December 20 2012 20:45 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city. he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting so it really is the soul factor o.O
too much soul man
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On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city. he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting
Exactly. People claiming "Sniper didn't play well"... are you kidding me? He did everything perfectly, he delayed the push and picked off pylons and got behind his opponent and surrounded him... where exactly is he "not playing well"? Sniper was almost flawless.
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On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city. he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting
Well, if there's only one player who can make that build works no matter what, couldn't we say he is very skilled with this build?
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On December 20 2012 20:45 Kyyuna wrote:
So we have
Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals
Cant think of a Zerg :<
Pretty much every top-Zerg with BL/Infestor?
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Anyone knows when the vods usually get up for this ?
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On December 20 2012 20:44 Chocobo wrote:
Sure, protoss were well under 50% against it, but it was doable with a good vortex
Yey!
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On December 20 2012 20:45 Kyyuna wrote:
So we have
Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals
Cant think of a Zerg :<
Well there was Kyrix and his baneling busts  and MC's 6 gate.
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I missed this, but did Parting do his all-in 3 times in a row? :D
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On December 20 2012 20:48 darkness wrote:
I missed this, but did Parting do his all-in 3 times in a row? :D
Yes :DD
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On December 20 2012 20:43 Boiler Bandsman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:36 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 20 2012 20:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:On December 20 2012 20:29 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 20 2012 20:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Zerg does not have a god-given right to 3 bases before tech. Stop crying because PartinG found a consistent way to punish greed. Posts like this kill my brain. Good argument. Next time add some content. Going 3 hatch before tech is how you stay even with a FFE protoss. It's common SC2 macro sense. Of course, it has risks. Pressure builds and/or all ins, and fake pressure builds with a 3rd. That's where the skill is involved, the Protoss trying to fool the Zerg into over/undercommiting to drones depending on whether they're going all in or fake --> 3rd. There is none of that with the sentry immortal all in. No fooling, no trickery, just I'm going to forcefield all your shit and there's nothing you can do about it besides hoping I mess up. Infestor/BL looks way more beatable to me after the fungal/IT mini-nerf then this. That's outdated macro sense. Zerg has achieved cost-efficiency since the days of roach-hydra max and remax. A 2-base Zerg is not dead, he's just not ahead. 2-base Infestor would just LOL at this all-in, at which point you can probably DOUBLE expand safely while Toss tries for third. PartinG is keeping 16-minute Brood rushers honest, and that's completely okay. Much as FF/Fungal/BL suck ass to play against, the MU is balanced (if you're Parting). It may be poorly designed for sure, but it is balanced for his level at least.
I'm sorry but you don't understand ZvP very well if you think 2 base is even remotely an option. 2 bases don't even provide enough larva. And if infestors crush this allin, why aren't any pros trying it?
Mass high-energy infestors could stop it.. but you can't have more than a few new ones when this push hits. It certainly can't do worse than roach/ling though...
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On December 20 2012 20:45 Kyyuna wrote:
So we have
Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals
Cant think of a Zerg :<
Zergs? All-ins?
The two are mutually exclusive.
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On December 20 2012 20:48 darkness wrote:
I missed this, but did Parting do his all-in 3 times in a row? :D
More like slapped that zerg in the face 3 times in a row!
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Seriously, all that I'm gathering:
- Okay I'm gonna do this build that's really strong against roachling on three bases.
- Okay Imma build some roachling on three bases.
- But you know, my comp is strong against roachling on three bases.
- It doesn't matter, if I lose, I can still say your build is op.
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On December 20 2012 20:46 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city. he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting Well, if there's only one player who can make that build works no matter what, couldn't we say he is very skilled with this build?
As long as there is only one player who can do a build, they really have no reason to nerf it.
I mean they can't nerf a unit to fix games involving 0.00001% of the playerbase (that player and his opponents only).
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EPT
