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[GSL] Blizzard Cup Semi-Finals - Page 54

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Boiler Bandsman
Profile Joined February 2012
United States391 Posts
December 20 2012 11:43 GMT
#1061
On December 20 2012 20:36 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:29 Flonomenalz wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Zerg does not have a god-given right to 3 bases before tech. Stop crying because PartinG found a consistent way to punish greed.

Posts like this kill my brain.



Good argument. Next time add some content.

Going 3 hatch before tech is how you stay even with a FFE protoss. It's common SC2 macro sense. Of course, it has risks. Pressure builds and/or all ins, and fake pressure builds with a 3rd. That's where the skill is involved, the Protoss trying to fool the Zerg into over/undercommiting to drones depending on whether they're going all in or fake --> 3rd.

There is none of that with the sentry immortal all in. No fooling, no trickery, just I'm going to forcefield all your shit and there's nothing you can do about it besides hoping I mess up.

Infestor/BL looks way more beatable to me after the fungal/IT mini-nerf then this.


That's outdated macro sense. Zerg has achieved cost-efficiency since the days of roach-hydra max and remax. A 2-base Zerg is not dead, he's just not ahead. 2-base Infestor would just LOL at this all-in, at which point you can probably DOUBLE expand safely while Toss tries for third. PartinG is keeping 16-minute Brood rushers honest, and that's completely okay.

Much as FF/Fungal/BL suck ass to play against, the MU is balanced (if you're Parting). It may be poorly designed for sure, but it is balanced for his level at least.
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
December 20 2012 11:44 GMT
#1062
On December 20 2012 20:36 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:29 Flonomenalz wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Zerg does not have a god-given right to 3 bases before tech. Stop crying because PartinG found a consistent way to punish greed.

Posts like this kill my brain.



Good argument. Next time add some content.

Going 3 hatch before tech is how you stay even with a FFE protoss. It's common SC2 macro sense. Of course, it has risks. Pressure builds and/or all ins, and fake pressure builds with a 3rd. That's where the skill is involved, the Protoss trying to fool the Zerg into over/undercommiting to drones depending on whether they're going all in or fake --> 3rd.

There is none of that with the sentry immortal all in. No fooling, no trickery, just I'm going to forcefield all your shit and there's nothing you can do about it besides hoping I mess up.

Infestor/BL looks way more beatable to me after the fungal/IT mini-nerf then this.


Infestor/BL has always been much more beatable than this. Sure, protoss were well under 50% against it, but it was doable with a good vortex, or good distractions + counterattacks like taking out the greater spire with warp prism harrass.

Plus the zerg has to survive until that point anyway, so protoss has several opportunities to win in the first 15-20 minutes. I'm not saying infestor/BL wasn't overpowered, but it wasn't virtually unbeatable like the Parting allin is.

But it's kind of like mass science vessels in BW TvZ... if the terran gets his perfect lategame composition, zerg is very unlikely to win the game. The difference is that in BW you could pick off sci vessels with scourge or plague to keep the count down... in SC2 protoss can't pick off BLs or infestors to keep it from getting out of hand.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
December 20 2012 11:44 GMT
#1063
On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today

sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
December 20 2012 11:45 GMT
#1064
On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today

sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting


so it really is the soul factor o.O
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
December 20 2012 11:45 GMT
#1065
I guess zergs should be glad the immortal/sentry allin exists, because otherwise blizzard would perhaps look at the zerg winrate and think a while, before removing zerg from the game rendering all those zerg players homeless and poor as they don't have the mechanics to play terran.

+ Show Spoiler +
Then they will probably remove the warp from gates, nerf colossus, remove immortals, buff tanks and make SC2 the perfect PvT, PvP and TvT game.
maru G5L pls
Kyyuna
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1222 Posts
December 20 2012 11:45 GMT
#1066
So we have

Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals

Cant think of a Zerg :<
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
December 20 2012 11:46 GMT
#1067
On December 20 2012 20:45 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today

sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting


so it really is the soul factor o.O

too much soul man
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
December 20 2012 11:46 GMT
#1068
On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today

sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting

Exactly. People claiming "Sniper didn't play well"... are you kidding me? He did everything perfectly, he delayed the push and picked off pylons and got behind his opponent and surrounded him... where exactly is he "not playing well"? Sniper was almost flawless.
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
December 20 2012 11:46 GMT
#1069
On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today

sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting


Well, if there's only one player who can make that build works no matter what, couldn't we say he is very skilled with this build?
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Rannasha
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands2398 Posts
December 20 2012 11:47 GMT
#1070
On December 20 2012 20:45 Kyyuna wrote:
So we have

Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals

Cant think of a Zerg :<


Pretty much every top-Zerg with BL/Infestor?
Such flammable little insects!
ToD
Profile Joined December 2008
France222 Posts
December 20 2012 11:47 GMT
#1071
Anyone knows when the vods usually get up for this ?
Commentator
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
December 20 2012 11:47 GMT
#1072
On December 20 2012 20:44 Chocobo wrote:
Sure, protoss were well under 50% against it, but it was doable with a good vortex


Yey!
maru G5L pls
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
December 20 2012 11:47 GMT
#1073
On December 20 2012 20:45 Kyyuna wrote:
So we have

Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals

Cant think of a Zerg :<


Well there was Kyrix and his baneling busts and MC's 6 gate.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
December 20 2012 11:48 GMT
#1074
I missed this, but did Parting do his all-in 3 times in a row? :D
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
December 20 2012 11:49 GMT
#1075
On December 20 2012 20:48 darkness wrote:
I missed this, but did Parting do his all-in 3 times in a row? :D


Yes :DD
maru G5L pls
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
December 20 2012 11:49 GMT
#1076
On December 20 2012 20:43 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:36 Flonomenalz wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:29 Flonomenalz wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Zerg does not have a god-given right to 3 bases before tech. Stop crying because PartinG found a consistent way to punish greed.

Posts like this kill my brain.



Good argument. Next time add some content.

Going 3 hatch before tech is how you stay even with a FFE protoss. It's common SC2 macro sense. Of course, it has risks. Pressure builds and/or all ins, and fake pressure builds with a 3rd. That's where the skill is involved, the Protoss trying to fool the Zerg into over/undercommiting to drones depending on whether they're going all in or fake --> 3rd.

There is none of that with the sentry immortal all in. No fooling, no trickery, just I'm going to forcefield all your shit and there's nothing you can do about it besides hoping I mess up.

Infestor/BL looks way more beatable to me after the fungal/IT mini-nerf then this.


That's outdated macro sense. Zerg has achieved cost-efficiency since the days of roach-hydra max and remax. A 2-base Zerg is not dead, he's just not ahead. 2-base Infestor would just LOL at this all-in, at which point you can probably DOUBLE expand safely while Toss tries for third. PartinG is keeping 16-minute Brood rushers honest, and that's completely okay.

Much as FF/Fungal/BL suck ass to play against, the MU is balanced (if you're Parting). It may be poorly designed for sure, but it is balanced for his level at least.


I'm sorry but you don't understand ZvP very well if you think 2 base is even remotely an option. 2 bases don't even provide enough larva. And if infestors crush this allin, why aren't any pros trying it?

Mass high-energy infestors could stop it.. but you can't have more than a few new ones when this push hits. It certainly can't do worse than roach/ling though...
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
December 20 2012 11:49 GMT
#1077
On December 20 2012 20:45 Kyyuna wrote:
So we have

Puma with his 1/1/1
Parting with LOL sentry immortals

Cant think of a Zerg :<

Zergs? All-ins?

The two are mutually exclusive.
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
December 20 2012 11:49 GMT
#1078
On December 20 2012 20:48 darkness wrote:
I missed this, but did Parting do his all-in 3 times in a row? :D


More like slapped that zerg in the face 3 times in a row!
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12589 Posts
December 20 2012 11:50 GMT
#1079
Seriously, all that I'm gathering:

- Okay I'm gonna do this build that's really strong against roachling on three bases.
- Okay Imma build some roachling on three bases.
- But you know, my comp is strong against roachling on three bases.
- It doesn't matter, if I lose, I can still say your build is op.
No will to live, no wish to die
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
December 20 2012 11:50 GMT
#1080
On December 20 2012 20:46 Veldril wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 20:44 MorroW wrote:
On December 20 2012 20:41 Tsubbi wrote:
immortal sentry is only good because of the +1 range buff they got vs 1/1/1, also while everyone deep in their heart knows the build is a tad bit too strong sniper didnt play well today

sniper played actually almost a perfect text book game vs parting on abyssal city.
he had near perfect execution to "how your supposed to stop immortal sentry all-in". this is how all top koreans play against this when going 3hatch before gas and it works wonders against all tosses except parting


Well, if there's only one player who can make that build works no matter what, couldn't we say he is very skilled with this build?


As long as there is only one player who can do a build, they really have no reason to nerf it.

I mean they can't nerf a unit to fix games involving 0.00001% of the playerbase (that player and his opponents only).
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