Disagree. I think UD is the best starting race. The DPS is insane, and most players on ladder aren't good enough to take advantage of the BM. Also Orc DPS is shit without BM.

But if you are beginner, with UD you just lose units a ton, while orcs tank more and are easier to save.

monk

United States8476 Posts

December 02 2012 09:10 GMT

#402

These positions good for UD, iirc. The fiend frost armor pressure is really strong here. Ted can also choose to tier 2 tower rush as well.

ramon

Germany4842 Posts

December 02 2012 09:10 GMT

#403

On December 02 2012 18:08 figq wrote:

Show nested quote +

But if you are beginner, with UD you just lose units a ton, while orcs tank more and are easier to save.

yeah i agree, orc is easiest to start and best if you are decent and best if you are pro
not by much though, every race has it's strengths

LittLeD

Sweden7973 Posts

December 02 2012 09:11 GMT

#404

On December 02 2012 17:55 fakgfdgfdh wrote:

Show nested quote +

what matchup is considered the best? how are the mirror matches, are they considered bad as in starcraft? do they ever get into late game, late game style armies, big armies?

With 4 races, there are too many match-ups to convincingly say one is better than the other.

I'll give you my opinion instead:
My top 3 favorite match-ups:

1) Orc vs Undead (Just look at the series going on right now, and you'll realize how freaking unreal this match-up can be at times. I absolutely love it)

2) Human vs Human (Similar to the TvT match-up in SC2, this match-up can be extremely long at times, and be nail-biting close when very skilled players are in control)

3) Orc vs Orc (An extremely micro-intense match-up)

My 3 worst match-ups:

1) Human vs Orc (Can, at unusual times be extremely intense, but usually just ends up in the human doing some variation of a tower rush, which is usually short and boring or expand mass tower/mass gryphon style, which is also quite boring)

2) Night elf vs Undead (I just think it's rather boring to watch)

3) Night Elf vs Human (Same as above, usually not very exciting)

Concerning your second questions: Mirror are (in my opinion) nothing worse than any other match-up and can just as any other match-up be long, intense and very varied in terms of unit compositions. I'd say the average game time of a WC3 pro game is around 14-15 minutes, which would mean 50 % of the games are above that length. This tells you that WC3 games can be just as long if not longer than average SC2 games. Despite this, most of these games aren't played out with supplies over 50 (but this has more to do with the mechanics of the upkeep than anything else), but very big fights can occur, especially in the human match-ups (HvO and HvU on certain maps can go all up to 100 vs 100 fights).

babylon

8765 Posts

December 02 2012 09:11 GMT

#405

On December 02 2012 18:08 figq wrote:

Show nested quote +

But if you are beginner, with UD you just lose units a ton, while orcs tank more and are easier to save.

Fiends are really easy to keep alive if you have even a modicum of control. Again most players won't know how to shadow an UD player well enough for the imbalance to really show outside of the top level of play.

Orc units are fucking fat, slow, melee, and don't do damage.

babylon

8765 Posts

December 02 2012 09:13 GMT

#406

I can't believe someone actually likes HU mirror.

Omg breaker wars not fun.

Arceus

Vietnam8333 Posts

December 02 2012 09:15 GMT

#407

On December 02 2012 18:05 Valikyr wrote:
Is BM or Infestors worse?

it's not a stretch to say BM singlehandedly kills the game, makes countless UDs retire and grabs all the money. True story.

monk

United States8476 Posts

December 02 2012 09:15 GMT

#408

Concerning your second questions: Mirror are (in my opinion) nothing worse than any other match-up and can just as any other match-up be long, intense and very varied in terms of unit compositions.

Well, Orc vs Orc isn't really that varied. In 90% of games, you'll actually see the exact same army at 50 supply. BM, SH, 4 Grunts, 2 Raiders, 2 Spirit Walker, 1 Kodo, and 12 Peons =O.

Caihead

Canada8550 Posts

December 02 2012 09:16 GMT

#409

Oh god Ted has a window to win this come on

Valikyr

Sweden2653 Posts

December 02 2012 09:16 GMT

#410

On December 02 2012 18:15 Arceus wrote:

Show nested quote +

it's not a stretch to say BM singlehandedly kills the game, makes countless UDs retire and grabs all the money. True story.

So the infestors are worse for the game.

LittLeD

Sweden7973 Posts

December 02 2012 09:17 GMT

#411

On December 02 2012 18:13 babylon wrote:
I can't believe someone actually likes HU mirror.

Omg breaker wars not fun.

I haven't watched pro games for over a year, but my memories of that match-up are hilarious micro wars with breaker surrounds everywhere, millitas, epic hero fights with high levels, knights, sorcs with invis and plenty more.

I guess though, during the later days I mostly just watched the top of the cream when it came to WC3 replays.