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On November 06 2012 19:31 Destructicon wrote:
Well, to be honest, Sniper could have won that when Seed only had 130 army supply. He needed to just surround Seed's army and go for it, even if he took heavy casualties he needed to go for it and just constantly re-max until Seed ran out of gas. The moment Seed got up to 18 sentries, 20 stalkers and kept them alive for so long, it went downhill really fast.
130 army supply sounds pretty good, actually :p
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SC2 is fine dudes. He has the build figured out (as the Kespa pros do as well, watch Hyvaa or SoO vs. this) - you just can't stay on Roaches forever. He had multiple options to force his superior economy to win (drops, infestors, more hatches, nydus, etc.) but he did nothing. Poor game to quote for bad balance - I play Zerg btw.
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On November 06 2012 19:31 Hiea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 19:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:On November 06 2012 19:28 Dark.Carnival wrote:
As much as Artosis wants to praise sniper.. it was mostly Seed having bad forcefields ;x If he went faster infestors and actually traded some supply to keep Seeds army smaller he would have won He baited out the forcefields. Sniper played incredibly well at the start, there is no denying that, but he just didn't transition to infestors, you need infestors against protoss once their army supply gets around 140ish with that army composition.
He was scared of transitioning.
Sniper played that damn well almost perfect i would say.
Maybe he should have engaged earlier.
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On November 06 2012 19:30 phyre112 wrote:
You say this, but there's specific evidence of a game where it didn't happen.
The voids went unscouted until there were 20 of them, and then between them and the collossi, every time an IT egg went down it was instantly killed. 40 infestors worth of energy. Sure, fungal alone probably could have done it given enough time, but that's different, and it doesn't apply in the situation that Hyun was in.
I think if you add storm to that it gets much better, storming the ITs as they come out and zoning out mass corruptors while spreading the voids to avoid fungal. Still, if you fuck up once you kinda just lose
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On November 06 2012 19:31 nunez wrote:
i don't think infestors would have helped there. he wouldn't have time to build up energy, and he would have died if he tried to make to many. you can't get spines up either.
i think faster burrow and burrow movement is a better move.
If they have time to get 20 sentries, you have time to get infestors. And 4 fungals > infinite sentries.
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On November 06 2012 19:31 nunez wrote:
i don't think infestors would have helped there. he wouldn't have time to build up energy, and he would have died if he tried to make to many. you can't get spines up either.
i think faster burrow and burrow movement is a better move.
Infestors wouldn't of helped at the very end no, he needed them when seed was at 140ish supply, infestors fungal all the sentries if they stack up, and if they spread out forcefields become far less effective.
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I haven't seen the gate and core set up like that in a while.
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awesome game!
Sniper did a great job stalling with his split up army, but he would've had to use his stalling for something. Just keeping up with building an inferior army (=roaches vs Immortal/infestor) won't work...
he should've either counterattacked (which might have triggered a base trade) or gone for Infestors instead of burrow... wrong decision on the burrow, maybe he thought there was no observer, don't know.
still, really exciting game, loved it 
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On November 06 2012 19:28 EatCrow wrote:
Im no zerg. Can't you get hydras up to defend this? Seems like it could be good vs ff.
I've done this sometimes and yes you can if you go lair before speed and take your gases quite fast..
If you know this is coming you can decide to go hydra but it's definitely no work over and you still need a lot of units...Hydras can still be forcefielded to be in a bad position so it is by no means a walkover but it can work!
But you still have to realise that you are making effing hydras! A strong contender for worst unit in the game :p
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United States33481 Posts
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On November 06 2012 19:32 EatCrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 19:29 Fragile51 wrote:On November 06 2012 19:28 EatCrow wrote:
Im no zerg. Can't you get hydras up to defend this? Seems like it could be good vs ff. Hydras? Good vs FF? Good vs anything not zerg? Nah.. They shoot farther than roaches. They are fast on creep (defensive position there's creep errywhere) and you can even kite on creep a little.
They also die incredibly quickly, and their movement speed on creep is a non issue because they won't be moving out of those forcefields anyway.
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On November 06 2012 19:31 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 19:30 phyre112 wrote: On November 06 2012 19:24 opterown wrote:On November 06 2012 19:23 Maloreon wrote:On November 06 2012 19:20 silent_owl wrote:On November 06 2012 19:19 phyre112 wrote:On November 06 2012 19:14 Destructicon wrote:On November 06 2012 19:12 Laryleprakon wrote:
I hope we see the new Finale build 30 voidrays and somehow beat 40 infestor strat we saw today vs Hyun. Probably wrong thread, and 30 void rays will never in a million years beat 40 infestors. Anyway, go go Seed, definitely my favorite Protoss (yes even more so then Rain). He's saying he hopes to see seed use void rays. And since you apparently didn't watch fight club, Hyun made 19 broods, 38 infestors and 5 corruptors in game 4. He lost to like 20 voids, 4 collossi and a dozen archons, plus stalker warp-ins, Finale lost none of the voids, and only two of the collossi, then went on to roll over Hyun. That is interesting actually. I haven't seen any pros use Voids in a WHILE. I mean, not in the way they used to during the colossus void deathball era. Funny I've been told so many time the last few weeks by Toss that you absolutely 100% can't beat late game Hive tech armies... I've always been pretty sure a proper VR based lategame deathball can (as well as some Terran armies). We're talking 30 minutes of turtle fest godmode macro and defense though and not many want to try it I guess. I can only hope.  fungal + corruptors + IT will defeat voids pretty easily You say this, but there's specific evidence of a game where it didn't happen. The voids went unscouted until there were 20 of them, and then between them and the collossi, every time an IT egg went down it was instantly killed. 40 infestors worth of energy. Sure, fungal alone probably could have done it given enough time, but that's different, and it doesn't apply in the situation that Hyun was in. honestly haha if you allow a protoss to get 20 voids, you deserve to lose lol
This is kind of the same thing as letting the Zerg get their armies (and all the 3 base pre-hive pushes). I really do think that the top Protoss have the defensive technique to hold this until they get their insane army. Also that many VR's can harass and defend pretty damn well while building them up. We'll see hopefully.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
doesn't seem sniper mapped out his ovie placement quite yet on the new map
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4713 Posts
Seed mixing it up with a GW opener instead of the standard FFE, love it, mixing it up like that, keeping the zerg honest and screwing up their timing.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I dont have sound on as i watch at work xD
Is Artosis loving the opening by Seed? He always likes protoss to change things up by doing the 1gate expand xd
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On November 06 2012 19:30 phyre112 wrote: Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 19:24 opterown wrote:On November 06 2012 19:23 Maloreon wrote:On November 06 2012 19:20 silent_owl wrote:On November 06 2012 19:19 phyre112 wrote:On November 06 2012 19:14 Destructicon wrote:On November 06 2012 19:12 Laryleprakon wrote:
I hope we see the new Finale build 30 voidrays and somehow beat 40 infestor strat we saw today vs Hyun. Probably wrong thread, and 30 void rays will never in a million years beat 40 infestors. Anyway, go go Seed, definitely my favorite Protoss (yes even more so then Rain). He's saying he hopes to see seed use void rays. And since you apparently didn't watch fight club, Hyun made 19 broods, 38 infestors and 5 corruptors in game 4. He lost to like 20 voids, 4 collossi and a dozen archons, plus stalker warp-ins, Finale lost none of the voids, and only two of the collossi, then went on to roll over Hyun. That is interesting actually. I haven't seen any pros use Voids in a WHILE. I mean, not in the way they used to during the colossus void deathball era. Funny I've been told so many time the last few weeks by Toss that you absolutely 100% can't beat late game Hive tech armies... I've always been pretty sure a proper VR based lategame deathball can (as well as some Terran armies). We're talking 30 minutes of turtle fest godmode macro and defense though and not many want to try it I guess. I can only hope. fungal + corruptors + IT will defeat voids pretty easily You say this, but there's specific evidence of a game where it didn't happen. The voids went unscouted until there were 20 of them, and then between them and the collossi, every time an IT egg went down it was instantly killed. 40 infestors worth of energy. Sure, fungal alone probably could have done it given enough time, but that's different, and it doesn't apply in the situation that Hyun was in.
so a strategy that builds on the hope that zerg doesn't scout your initial TWENTY voids is valid? Yeah I don't think so.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
wax are you LRing?
nvm you are :D
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Haha Artosis sounded like he was to reference the Zerg biology thread on TL when Tasteless interrupted him
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EPT
Sniper: Top left
Seed: Bottom right
