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On November 12 2012 14:28 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:26 Jacmert wrote:
Is it just me or did Bomber totally neglect to split/spread his marines in the final engagement? Maybe fatigue was starting to get to him? Trying to siege his tanks, attack from two angles, stim, splitting his vikings BEAUTIFULLY, and macroing like a god all at once isn't enough for the Fungal menace :/ Sorry Bomber's marines...Terran can't do everything at once. But infestors can.
dude i'm all for nerfing infestors to stop MASS INFESTOR play.
But stephano hardly even had any infestors. He just hit perfect fungals with the ones he had.
This game has nothing to do with the reason infestors should be nerfed.
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Anyone get the impression that mods have given up on LR whining?
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too bad it wasn't just a best of 7 and bomber would have won lol
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On November 12 2012 14:29 andaylin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:27 hayata2.0 wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 andaylin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 14:21 Jeremy Reimer wrote:On November 12 2012 14:12 Gescom wrote:
Let's all ignore Stephano's fantastic early game build combined with Bomber's huge mid-game mistakes and cry about fungal instead. Guffah. This. The story of game five, the amazing story, was Stephano poking in with four roaches and tricking Bomber into thinking that a roach push was incoming. He made THREE BUNKERS! Then Stephano went for hive and greater spire, but he had to hold off Bomber in the middle of the map to get them up. Then there was the stim that Stephano forced out on, what, like 30 marines? All down to half health, with no medivacs? Then when the broodlords came out, Bomber made Vikings, but that forced him to cut down on his medivac production! And Stephano had made more infestors AND speed banes, and Bomber made nothing but marines and clumped them all up... he had a huge bank versus Bomber's negligible bank, Bomber was busy making vikings but Stephano had corrupters AND was prepared for a tech switch into Ultras, which he could have done with ease with his huge bank... ... and it was THE FINAL GAME after a back-and-forth, amazingly close series... 3-2 for Bomber and then 2-1 for Stephano... But NO... the game sucks because fungal sucks and infestors suck. Right. THAT'S the reaction you have. Come on, just enjoy the games! 4 roaches is a bigger econ hit than 3 bunkers early game, especially with the bomber build, especially when you can sell them I know right? That 75 minerals wasted on salvaged bunkers. It's not an economic hit. It's the timing on the upgrades, isn't it? Fear of the all in -. dump the money in the bunkers earlier, means no double ebay. Thus bomber was behind in upgrades all game, and when 2-2 finished for his 2-2 200/200 marine tank push Broodlords are out and then all the tanks are invalidated, and the marines get run down by ling baneling as the tanks unsiege. The pre-broodlord timing hit post-broodlord and rolled over. what? if you watch the vod you'll see that 1/1 had already started before those 3 bunkers. i wasn't listening but i'm afraid day9 might have misled you. of course, there were other mistakes for bomber's loss.
FALSE FALSE FALSE he built his ebay after the bunkers
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On November 12 2012 14:28 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:24 nokz88 wrote:On November 12 2012 14:20 Havik_ wrote:
To some extent I think Terrans have no right to QQ about Infestors until they start making Ghosts in TvZ again. Protoss can complain all they want though :p Yes those same Ghosts Blizzard butchered after Zergs cried rivers because Mvp used them like none other. Its called EMP. You can't whine about Infestors and not make their counter. 1 EMP can neutralize infinite infestors if they're clumped up.
have you seen how fat infestors and the radius of emp? you get like 2-3 tops if you hit a perfect emp
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On November 12 2012 14:26 andaylin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:25 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 12 2012 14:23 Astro-Penguin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:22 IMNasty wrote:
lol no thanks for EG sponsors, suspensions incoming we all know how brutal his last suspension was, he wasn't allowed to participate in a whole whopping amount of 0 tournaments you do know he had to withdraw from the GD Studio tournament that Thorzain won and DH Bucharest right? He wouldn't have gone to Bucharest, he was already qualified for Winter Finals. Only GD Studio.
ummm he was scheduled to go to Bucharest. He was on the original player list.
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On November 12 2012 14:28 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:27 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:23 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:19 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:18 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:16 Thomanson wrote:On November 12 2012 14:15 FlyingTurtle wrote:
LOL @ all the fungal whine. Bomber's army was what, 100 marines and just 6 tanks? He was asking for it. Tier 3 army beats a tier 2 army = OP QQ NERF
Well played Stephano. I'd buy that argument, if Terran had Tier 3 that was any use against....well anything. Go watch some of Gumiho's games or any games where the Terran makes anything out of his Starports other than Vikings and Meds. Bomber lost because he went pure marine tank versus a hive composition instead of throwing in Ravens, BCs, Thors, etc. haha good luck getting that kind of composition on ohana there's a reason it's gone from GSL. I don't know which tournament you're watching, but the GSL has always featured Terran champions who knew how to deal wtih the Zerg T3 army. For MMA, it was avoiding direct engagements and exploiting the immobility of brood/infestor with his drops and mini-tactics that eventually wore down the Zerg. For Mvp, it was a heavy mech transition even out of biomech (thors and ravens and whatnot). I don't know what comment you're reading, but what I said has nothing to do with what you answered. You're not going to have the same kind of game on Ohana as you will on Metropolis, Atlantis Spaceship or Whirlwind. So you're saying that Ohana is for some reason impossible to play a late game comp on? Did you even watch the game? Bomber went for a NEAR-ALL-IN PUSH and it FAILED. If he had taken an early 4th CC, made a few PFs in the middle, and worked his way up to controlling his watchtower and his side of the map, he could have easily teched into starport units. But no, he went for the lazy Terran answer, the pre-hive low-tech push. Yeah we should totally rename bomber 'lazy terran'. He's basically bitbybit in disguise.
LOL way to throw in a red herring. No, he's not BitByBit, but there's a reason he hasn't won a GSL. GSL champs are either immensely innovative or mechanically inscrutable. Bomber is neither, especially not "innovative."
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On November 12 2012 14:29 pmp10 wrote:
Anyone get the impression that mods have given up on LR whining?
no i got a warning for it about 20 minutes ago 
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On November 12 2012 14:29 pmp10 wrote:
Anyone get the impression that mods have given up on LR whining?
They were pretty quick about banning and cleaning up the posts from the scat guy, though.
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On November 12 2012 14:24 FlyingTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:21 Gator wrote:On November 12 2012 14:18 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:16 Thomanson wrote:On November 12 2012 14:15 FlyingTurtle wrote:
LOL @ all the fungal whine. Bomber's army was what, 100 marines and just 6 tanks? He was asking for it. Tier 3 army beats a tier 2 army = OP QQ NERF
Well played Stephano. I'd buy that argument, if Terran had Tier 3 that was any use against....well anything. Go watch some of Gumiho's games or any games where the Terran makes anything out of his Starports other than Vikings and Meds. Bomber lost because he went pure marine tank versus a hive composition instead of throwing in Ravens, BCs, Thors, etc. WTF how do build that army on Ohana lol, that game lasted what 20 minutes? Bomber couldn't even take a 4th base I'll tell you how. You don't go for the maxed-out marine-tank push on 3 bases. You don't fall behind on tech and econ due to a fake roach bust. You don't make the mistakes Bomber made while Stephano rushed up to hive tech.
don'ts:
1. play safe vs all ins
2. do a standard prehive timing push
3. let your opponent rush to hive while you make mistakes
am i getting everything? so the margin of error is about, 75 minerals in salvaged bunkers, an unnecessary stim and reading the committal of unit production from a zerg player perfectly all game
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i am surprised by all this whining, its not like some no name zerg won the tournament because of infestors, it was still stephano ffs best foreign zerg, its like your not a part of the cool guys if you dont mention something about infestors in every single thread on TL and reddit, just chill a bit...
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On November 12 2012 14:27 FlyingTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:24 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:23 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:19 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:18 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:16 Thomanson wrote:On November 12 2012 14:15 FlyingTurtle wrote:
LOL @ all the fungal whine. Bomber's army was what, 100 marines and just 6 tanks? He was asking for it. Tier 3 army beats a tier 2 army = OP QQ NERF
Well played Stephano. I'd buy that argument, if Terran had Tier 3 that was any use against....well anything. Go watch some of Gumiho's games or any games where the Terran makes anything out of his Starports other than Vikings and Meds. Bomber lost because he went pure marine tank versus a hive composition instead of throwing in Ravens, BCs, Thors, etc. haha good luck getting that kind of composition on ohana there's a reason it's gone from GSL. I don't know which tournament you're watching, but the GSL has always featured Terran champions who knew how to deal wtih the Zerg T3 army. For MMA, it was avoiding direct engagements and exploiting the immobility of brood/infestor with his drops and mini-tactics that eventually wore down the Zerg. For Mvp, it was a heavy mech transition even out of biomech (thors and ravens and whatnot). I don't know what comment you're reading, but what I said has nothing to do with what you answered. You're not going to have the same kind of game on Ohana as you will on Metropolis, Atlantis Spaceship or Whirlwind. So you're saying that Ohana is for some reason impossible to play a late game comp on? Did you even watch the game? Bomber went for a NEAR-ALL-IN PUSH and it FAILED. If he had taken an early 4th CC, made a few PFs in the middle, and worked his way up to controlling his watchtower and his side of the map, he could have easily teched into starport units. But no, he went for the lazy Terran answer, the pre-hive low-tech push.
And it won him the game in the previous series on Ohana, why would he not do it again? Different maps have different optimal play styles.
If he thought it was a better choice to play a turtle style on that map he would have done it, Bomber is known for being one of the first Terrans to do a Raven heavy lategame style. ( find the VODs of Stephano vs Bomber in the GD studio invitational from earlier this year ) I'm sure he's just lazy though, yes.
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On November 12 2012 14:28 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:24 nokz88 wrote:On November 12 2012 14:20 Havik_ wrote:
To some extent I think Terrans have no right to QQ about Infestors until they start making Ghosts in TvZ again. Protoss can complain all they want though :p Yes those same Ghosts Blizzard butchered after Zergs cried rivers because Mvp used them like none other. Its called EMP. You can't whine about Infestors and not make their counter. 1 EMP can neutralize infinite infestors if they're clumped up.
Are you trolling?
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On November 12 2012 14:30 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:26 andaylin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:25 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 12 2012 14:23 Astro-Penguin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:22 IMNasty wrote:
lol no thanks for EG sponsors, suspensions incoming we all know how brutal his last suspension was, he wasn't allowed to participate in a whole whopping amount of 0 tournaments you do know he had to withdraw from the GD Studio tournament that Thorzain won and DH Bucharest right? He wouldn't have gone to Bucharest, he was already qualified for Winter Finals. Only GD Studio. ummm he was scheduled to go to Bucharest. He was on the original player list.
Why? Better question is why would DH allow him if he was already qualified.
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On November 12 2012 14:23 FlyingTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:19 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:18 FlyingTurtle wrote:On November 12 2012 14:16 Thomanson wrote:On November 12 2012 14:15 FlyingTurtle wrote:
LOL @ all the fungal whine. Bomber's army was what, 100 marines and just 6 tanks? He was asking for it. Tier 3 army beats a tier 2 army = OP QQ NERF
Well played Stephano. I'd buy that argument, if Terran had Tier 3 that was any use against....well anything. Go watch some of Gumiho's games or any games where the Terran makes anything out of his Starports other than Vikings and Meds. Bomber lost because he went pure marine tank versus a hive composition instead of throwing in Ravens, BCs, Thors, etc. haha good luck getting that kind of composition on ohana there's a reason it's gone from GSL. I don't know which tournament you're watching, but the GSL has always featured Terran champions who knew how to deal wtih the Zerg T3 army. For MMA, it was avoiding direct engagements and exploiting the immobility of brood/infestor with his drops and mini-tactics that eventually wore down the Zerg. For Mvp, it was a heavy mech transition even out of biomech (thors and ravens and whatnot).
wtf are you talking about? MMA is from last year, when Zergs didn't know they could only build infestors and win. They were crying about Ghosts and didn't bother.
And only map I've seen Mvp use that is Metropolis.
All in all, I've been watching SC2 since GSL open season 1 in 2010, and only 1-1-1 managed to piss me off like infestors do now. This is straight up unfair, like 1-1-1 against protoss before immortal buff. It needs to go.
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On November 12 2012 14:30 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:29 pmp10 wrote:
Anyone get the impression that mods have given up on LR whining?
no i got a warning for it about 20 minutes ago
Got one pretty early on as well.
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On November 12 2012 14:29 andaylin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:27 hayata2.0 wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 andaylin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 14:21 Jeremy Reimer wrote:On November 12 2012 14:12 Gescom wrote:
Let's all ignore Stephano's fantastic early game build combined with Bomber's huge mid-game mistakes and cry about fungal instead. Guffah. This. The story of game five, the amazing story, was Stephano poking in with four roaches and tricking Bomber into thinking that a roach push was incoming. He made THREE BUNKERS! Then Stephano went for hive and greater spire, but he had to hold off Bomber in the middle of the map to get them up. Then there was the stim that Stephano forced out on, what, like 30 marines? All down to half health, with no medivacs? Then when the broodlords came out, Bomber made Vikings, but that forced him to cut down on his medivac production! And Stephano had made more infestors AND speed banes, and Bomber made nothing but marines and clumped them all up... he had a huge bank versus Bomber's negligible bank, Bomber was busy making vikings but Stephano had corrupters AND was prepared for a tech switch into Ultras, which he could have done with ease with his huge bank... ... and it was THE FINAL GAME after a back-and-forth, amazingly close series... 3-2 for Bomber and then 2-1 for Stephano... But NO... the game sucks because fungal sucks and infestors suck. Right. THAT'S the reaction you have. Come on, just enjoy the games! 4 roaches is a bigger econ hit than 3 bunkers early game, especially with the bomber build, especially when you can sell them I know right? That 75 minerals wasted on salvaged bunkers. It's not an economic hit. It's the timing on the upgrades, isn't it? Fear of the all in -. dump the money in the bunkers earlier, means no double ebay. Thus bomber was behind in upgrades all game, and when 2-2 finished for his 2-2 200/200 marine tank push Broodlords are out and then all the tanks are invalidated, and the marines get run down by ling baneling as the tanks unsiege. The pre-broodlord timing hit post-broodlord and rolled over. what? if you watch the vod you'll see that 1/1 had already started before those 3 bunkers. i wasn't listening but i'm afraid day9 might have misled you. of course, there were other mistakes for bomber's loss.
this is bullshit, by the way
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On November 12 2012 14:29 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:28 TimENT wrote:On November 12 2012 14:26 Jacmert wrote:
Is it just me or did Bomber totally neglect to split/spread his marines in the final engagement? Maybe fatigue was starting to get to him? Trying to siege his tanks, attack from two angles, stim, splitting his vikings BEAUTIFULLY, and macroing like a god all at once isn't enough for the Fungal menace :/ Sorry Bomber's marines...Terran can't do everything at once. But infestors can. dude i'm all for nerfing infestors to stop MASS INFESTOR play. But stephano hardly even had any infestors. He just hit perfect fungals with the ones he had. This game has nothing to do with the reason infestors should be nerfed.
I know LOL I'm just saying... neglecting to split marines while doing 50000000 other things is retarded to whine about.
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On November 12 2012 14:29 pmp10 wrote:
Anyone get the impression that mods have given up on LR whining?
when basically everyone including pro players complain about infestors then I guess they don't care. I mean even rich had a tweet about zerg imba after hero lost in MLG I think.
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On November 12 2012 14:30 v_lm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 14:29 andaylin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:27 hayata2.0 wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 andaylin wrote:On November 12 2012 14:24 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 14:21 Jeremy Reimer wrote:On November 12 2012 14:12 Gescom wrote:
Let's all ignore Stephano's fantastic early game build combined with Bomber's huge mid-game mistakes and cry about fungal instead. Guffah. This. The story of game five, the amazing story, was Stephano poking in with four roaches and tricking Bomber into thinking that a roach push was incoming. He made THREE BUNKERS! Then Stephano went for hive and greater spire, but he had to hold off Bomber in the middle of the map to get them up. Then there was the stim that Stephano forced out on, what, like 30 marines? All down to half health, with no medivacs? Then when the broodlords came out, Bomber made Vikings, but that forced him to cut down on his medivac production! And Stephano had made more infestors AND speed banes, and Bomber made nothing but marines and clumped them all up... he had a huge bank versus Bomber's negligible bank, Bomber was busy making vikings but Stephano had corrupters AND was prepared for a tech switch into Ultras, which he could have done with ease with his huge bank... ... and it was THE FINAL GAME after a back-and-forth, amazingly close series... 3-2 for Bomber and then 2-1 for Stephano... But NO... the game sucks because fungal sucks and infestors suck. Right. THAT'S the reaction you have. Come on, just enjoy the games! 4 roaches is a bigger econ hit than 3 bunkers early game, especially with the bomber build, especially when you can sell them I know right? That 75 minerals wasted on salvaged bunkers. It's not an economic hit. It's the timing on the upgrades, isn't it? Fear of the all in -. dump the money in the bunkers earlier, means no double ebay. Thus bomber was behind in upgrades all game, and when 2-2 finished for his 2-2 200/200 marine tank push Broodlords are out and then all the tanks are invalidated, and the marines get run down by ling baneling as the tanks unsiege. The pre-broodlord timing hit post-broodlord and rolled over. what? if you watch the vod you'll see that 1/1 had already started before those 3 bunkers. i wasn't listening but i'm afraid day9 might have misled you. of course, there were other mistakes for bomber's loss. FALSE FALSE FALSE he built his ebay after the bunkers
Watch the game again, regardless, still not as bad as Stephanos early investment into roaches.
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EPT
