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On September 27 2012 13:49 stupidhydro wrote:
Well. Flash is amazing in what he does and so is Federer but.. flash poured his heart and soul into starcraft like federer did tennis? I'll agree with that statement when flash has been playing starcraft for over two decades...
and on a more on topic note... congratulations to Last for the 0-2 comeback. pretty crazy.
Yeah, honestly, and with all due respect to Flash, even if you compare the sheer amount of training time poured into their respective sports, Federer would smash him into the ground by virtue of the fact that he's spent many more years playing pro tennis than Flash has ever spent playing BW. I'm not privy to Federer's personal training schedule, but Federer turned pro tennis player when Flash was six years old. That was 1998; BW was released in 1998, and Flash came onto the scene in 2007. This is not even counting the training Federer had to undergo before going pro. There's no comparison.
Aside from that, wooooo, go Last~
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I couldn't help it, I peeked at the results
Why Flash whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...
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On September 26 2012 21:47 J1.au wrote:
I still support Flash 100%, but I no longer get upset when he loses. It's just not the same in SC2, I simply don't care as much.
THe sad thing is, SC2 is such an incomplete game still that skills do not necessarily reflect who wins the game. There are a lot of variance in the game that anyone can beat anyone.
This is what drives me crazy. If this game is improved to its full potential, Flash would have owned everyone already.
User was warned for this post
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bs...
Anyone noticed how flash looked uneasy when he lost his 1st game vs last? I have never seen him like that.. the face just said "I was preparing for a 3:0, but now... i dont think i can do it hmm"
just a thought
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On September 27 2012 15:15 Abort Retry Fail wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 21:47 J1.au wrote:
I still support Flash 100%, but I no longer get upset when he loses. It's just not the same in SC2, I simply don't care as much. THe sad thing is, SC2 is such an incomplete game still that skills do not necessarily reflect who wins the game. There are a lot of variance in the game that anyone can beat anyone. This is what drives me crazy. If this game is improved to its full potential, Flash would have owned everyone already.
lol so because Flash doesn't win every game it is the games fault?
All: 457-180 (71.74%) Flash Bw
All: 243-125 (66.03%) Taeja SC2
Skill totally doesn't matter. That's why foreigners are always beating Taeja...wait...
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On September 27 2012 15:15 Abort Retry Fail wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 21:47 J1.au wrote:
I still support Flash 100%, but I no longer get upset when he loses. It's just not the same in SC2, I simply don't care as much. THe sad thing is, SC2 is such an incomplete game still that skills do not necessarily reflect who wins the game. There are a lot of variance in the game that anyone can beat anyone. This is what drives me crazy. If this game is improved to its full potential, Flash would have owned everyone already.
someones butthurt!!!! KT fans giving me the SKT fan impression
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On September 27 2012 15:15 Abort Retry Fail wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 21:47 J1.au wrote:
I still support Flash 100%, but I no longer get upset when he loses. It's just not the same in SC2, I simply don't care as much. THe sad thing is, SC2 is such an incomplete game still that skills do not necessarily reflect who wins the game. There are a lot of variance in the game that anyone can beat anyone. This is what drives me crazy. If this game is improved to its full potential, Flash would have owned everyone already.
skill does matter wtf are u talking about. flash cant win every set no matter what game it is. And he is owning everyone....
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Last went into church beffore match, asked GOD (Flash) if he can win. GOD(Flash) said ok, but i will make it look close. 
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Even though I was disappointed at first, I always like to see new blood. Last fighting!
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On September 27 2012 12:57 NBronJames wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 12:31 Luepert wrote:
The argument is not whether sports>esports or esports>sports in skill. But hundreds of thousands of more people play tennis than starcraft. If Flash had had a 100x more competition, he would likely not be as dominant, but Federer was still dominant despite such a huge player base. Well you can make the same argument with soccer or football. Since there are 100x more people playing soccer, Mesi > Federer? You are right about more people playing tennis but 99% of them don't take it seriously. It's like comparing BW and SC2. SC2 user base is probably 20x larger than BW but it only took 3-6 months for the Kespa players to catch up with the very best SC2 players. And don't forget the current best SC2 players such as MC and MVP all being former Kespa players. You think it would make a difference if the casual user base was 100x larger? I still see the Kespa or former Kespa players dominating. It's same as saying LoL players are better than Flash since they have a larger user base.
Actually, that is exactly how it works.
Soccer is the most popular sport in the world. That means it has the biggest an base, the most people people watching, the most people competing in it.
More competition makes it a harder sport.
Sc2 is still a new game, people are still figuring it out. Idk why you'd compare it to BW...
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Nice comeback by Last. Really well done there and shows pretty good nerves. And Flash did well too. Ro8 is not bad at all for a first try. He'll be back with a vengeance next time.
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Holy shit.
Down 0-2 in a Bo5, in a mirror matchup, against one absurdly talented motherfucker known for his tournament results and consistency in BW?
FUCK THAT REVERSE AK
Grats to Last for pulling that off. Nerves of goddamn steel.
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Not sure what's more shocking - Flash losing or people comparing Starcraft players to Federer and Schumacher for real.
If not any other argument, just consider the difference in money. Some esports heroes may be millionaires (which is awesome!), but the big sports heroes are multimillionaires, and that's for a reason.
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On September 26 2012 21:31 sinigang wrote:
This is like watching Rodger Federer lose the 5th set.
Lol, just realized the arguments started popping up after i posted this. I was just referring to the emotions I felt (favorite top player fought til the last but lost), not really comparing the competitiveness between entirely different sports categories.
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Looks like Roger Federer posts on TL ^^
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You can't compare Federer to Flash. Instead, lets compare tennis to starcraft. A tennis match has 4 points a game. You need to win 6 games to get a set. You need to win 3 sets to get a match. So, to get as even as you can with tennis, you have to play at least a bo71 (but that isn't doable, right?). You don't see Federer winning every single point, nor every single set. It would be impossible. The same is with bo3/5/7/whatever, the better player has a higher CHANCE to win, but he's not guaranteed to. That's why you don't see guys completely dominating every opponent every time in starcraft.
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On September 28 2012 19:03 redt wrote:
You can't compare Federer to Flash. Instead, lets compare tennis to starcraft. A tennis match has 4 points a game. You need to win 6 games to get a set. You need to win 3 sets to get a match. So, to get as even as you can with tennis, you have to play at least a bo71 (but that isn't doable, right?). You don't see Federer winning every single point, nor every single set. It would be impossible. The same is with bo3/5/7/whatever, the better player has a higher CHANCE to win, but he's not guaranteed to. That's why you don't see guys completely dominating every opponent every time in starcraft.
Except that on average each point in tennis is far less nuanced than each game of Starcraft. Individually points in tennis matter very little, and you are even expected to lose the majority of points against your opponent's serve. A better comparison would be 1 game in tennis to 1 game in Starcraft in which case a bo18 would be more appropriate but even then a game can go by in less than a minute in tennis whereas each game in Starcraft is far more balanced. You can equate map selection to service games but in truth serving is a far bigger advantage than most maps provide (at least now that the horribly imbalanced maps that were so prevalent in the beginning of competitive Starcraft 2 have been expunged from the map pool).
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On September 28 2012 19:20 nofacej wrote:
Except that on average each point in tennis is far less nuanced than each game of Starcraft. Individually points in tennis matter very little, and you are even expected to lose the majority of points against your opponent's serve. A better comparison would be 1 game in tennis to 1 game in Starcraft in which case a bo18 would be more appropriate but even then a game can go by in less than a minute in tennis whereas each game in Starcraft is far more balanced. You can equate map selection to service games but in truth serving is a far bigger advantage than most maps provide (at least now that the horribly imbalanced maps that were so prevalent in the beginning of competitive Starcraft 2 have been expunged from the map pool).
Well yea, I'm just saying that you can't compare tennis players to starcraft players, I'm not a tennis expert, you can't compare them in details and we're still agreeing that you would have to have many more games to determine who the better player is. Though, I'm totally fine with bo3/5-s, they make the game much more strategical and more deep
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On September 27 2012 14:23 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 13:49 stupidhydro wrote:
Well. Flash is amazing in what he does and so is Federer but.. flash poured his heart and soul into starcraft like federer did tennis? I'll agree with that statement when flash has been playing starcraft for over two decades...
and on a more on topic note... congratulations to Last for the 0-2 comeback. pretty crazy. Yeah, honestly, and with all due respect to Flash, even if you compare the sheer amount of training time poured into their respective sports, Federer would smash him into the ground by virtue of the fact that he's spent many more years playing pro tennis than Flash has ever spent playing BW. I'm not privy to Federer's personal training schedule, but Federer turned pro tennis player when Flash was six years old. That was 1998; BW was released in 1998, and Flash came onto the scene in 2007. This is not even counting the training Federer had to undergo before going pro. There's no comparison. Aside from that, wooooo, go Last~
I'm fairly sure that the ratio of hours spent training over the same period of time is at least 2:1 in favor of Starcraft over any physical sport. Progamers spend 10+ hours playing every day (10 being the bare minimum). I don't think it's possible to constantly commit as much time on any kind of physical activity, and even if it were, it probably wouldn't be very productive.
When it comes to commitment and sacrifices that have to be made, very few jobs in the world can match the intensity of being a Brood War progamer, and certainly none of the popular physical sports I can think of (although I imagine there are some extreme ones that I don't know about / can't think of right now).
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On October 01 2012 19:21 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 14:23 babylon wrote:On September 27 2012 13:49 stupidhydro wrote:
Well. Flash is amazing in what he does and so is Federer but.. flash poured his heart and soul into starcraft like federer did tennis? I'll agree with that statement when flash has been playing starcraft for over two decades...
and on a more on topic note... congratulations to Last for the 0-2 comeback. pretty crazy. Yeah, honestly, and with all due respect to Flash, even if you compare the sheer amount of training time poured into their respective sports, Federer would smash him into the ground by virtue of the fact that he's spent many more years playing pro tennis than Flash has ever spent playing BW. I'm not privy to Federer's personal training schedule, but Federer turned pro tennis player when Flash was six years old. That was 1998; BW was released in 1998, and Flash came onto the scene in 2007. This is not even counting the training Federer had to undergo before going pro. There's no comparison. Aside from that, wooooo, go Last~ I'm fairly sure that the ratio of hours spent training over the same period of time is at least 2:1 in favor of Starcraft over any physical sport. Progamers spend 10+ hours playing every day (10 being the bare minimum). I don't think it's possible to constantly commit as much time on any kind of physical activity, and even if it were, it probably wouldn't be very productive. When it comes to commitment and sacrifices that have to be made, very few jobs in the world can match the intensity of being a Brood War progamer, and certainly none of the popular physical sports I can think of (although I imagine there are some extreme ones that I don't know about / can't think of right now).
Thats a very first world centric thing to say man. Sure, being a bw pro is a harder job than being a pro in a well paid physical sports, but it still is far from the most intense jobs in the world. When you dig in some shithole for 12+ hours a day for a wage so you can probably afford just enough food for you and your family to survive (or not), then your job is really one of the hardest in the world. Write "first world" next time instead of "world".
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EPT
