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On August 30 2012 01:37 Mithriel wrote:
Just me or is there no sound in the VODS?
For me there was no sound when using chrome but in firefox the vods worked fine.
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storms plus colossus.....
i dont see any way to beat them.
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On August 30 2012 01:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Ouch, those elephants hurt. MKP doesn't surprise me, but Mvp? His wrists must be getting bad T_T
no, Mvp just got into a huge disadvantage at the start and it slowly accumulated. MKP just shot himself in the foot.
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9070 Posts
On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again?
Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy.
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That MKP game was so strange. I wish he utilized more drop play in the midgame to harass.
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On August 30 2012 01:40 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:23 -TesteR- wrote:On August 30 2012 00:14 ArvickHero wrote:
I think what irritates me the most in these "KeSPA vs eSF" debates is the argument that KeSPA players are lucky/undeserving because they didn't have to build the the metagame/strategies and they have the preparation advantage.
Well shit, if this was BW instead (yea yea I know, shut up) and it was the eSF players switching over, I guarantee they wouldn't be able to take off more than a single series from the top 30 KeSPA BW pros within the same time frame, same advantages and all. Not even the most talented B-teamers, who played years before becoming one, take at least a year to break into the A-team and start taking games off the more experienced pros. I could probably make the same case for a LoL team switching to DoTA 2, or vice versa.
Experience should count for something BW is completely different; if eSF players switched to bw, it would be the mechanics that held them back, not the metagame. Since mechanics are less of a deciding factor in sc2, Kespa players can do well by studying the already fleshed out metagame. Not saying they are lucky/undeserving, but it is true they are using 2 years worth of eSF players' knowledge and development to their advantage, not like they are starting from scratch. Please don't say completely different for these two games. Even WC3 is not completely different from BW and SC2. For BW and SC2, mechanics are always the most important thing, that's the only thing you can fall back on. You can not base your game on smartness, because nobody is stupid. Chess and SC2 are completely different though.
You have to read the post I quoted in order to know the context. I didn't mean BW was a completely different game, I meant that the idea of Kespa players switching to sc2 is completely different to eSF players switching to broodwar.
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On August 30 2012 01:55 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy.
All I am saying is those guys are not bw Champions. Maybe they are better than Nestea/mvp/mc were, but their records aren't much better.
The elephant article is all about BW Champions rolling ESF players. So far, that has not happened.
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these are going to be fun matches to watch, i hope i can wake up for them since watching the vods sucks
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On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again?
both flying and rain were rookies that were often playing in proleague.
sorry, what was your argument again? oh, you don't have one? how sad.
p.s. rain allkilled hwaseung oz (jd included), flying allkilled mbcgame. so pretty much, both of them accomplished more proleague wins in their 1 match then most of your sc2 gods :D
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On August 30 2012 02:02 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:55 disciple wrote:On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy. All I am saying is those guys are not bw Champions. Maybe they are better than Nestea/mvp/mc were, but their records aren't much better. The elephant article is all about BW Champions rolling ESF players. So far, that has not happened.
You've never mentioned Fantasy, right?
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On August 30 2012 02:02 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:55 disciple wrote:On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy. All I am saying is those guys are not bw Champions. Maybe they are better than Nestea/mvp/mc were, but their records aren't much better. The elephant article is all about BW Champions rolling ESF players. So far, that has not happened.
Actually the elephant article was even more stupid than that. It Was about how Kespa had 300+ Bw players that at any moment could go to SC2 and within a couple months dominate it. That has definitely not happened and the kespa guys have been playing SC2 for multiple months now. But being TL is so BW biased I can see how that parts ignored and is more of "ok ok give them a few more months and THEN they'll dominate!.... in Bo1 format"
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On August 30 2012 02:05 .vid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? both flying and rain were rookies that were often playing in proleague. sorry, what was your argument again? oh, you don't have one? how sad.
Because they played in the proleague they are comparable to BW Champions and automatically way better than bteamers sc2 already has?
If you are trying to say that (which I guess you are), you would hope they would have won some games.
Both of their TLPDs are not great. I won't hate on them I think they are good players all I am saying is their not TOP NOTCH. Which was the point of the elephant thread. You guys are reacting so weird to this haha.
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On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again?
Flying achievementless?
If you're smoking I'd love to try cus you could atleast pretend to have looked around forthis it 
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United States10328 Posts
On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again?
sc2: rise of the b-teamers
(I'd like to point out, however, that sun has been an A-team regular for over a year now [and won rookie of the year last season], while flying has been playing in Proleague for at least 2 years)
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Lolol, when I saw the results I thought OP was trolling.  Sick job by the Kespa guys, MVP and MKP are really big guns.
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On August 30 2012 02:06 skypacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:02 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:55 disciple wrote:On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy. All I am saying is those guys are not bw Champions. Maybe they are better than Nestea/mvp/mc were, but their records aren't much better. The elephant article is all about BW Champions rolling ESF players. So far, that has not happened. You've never mentioned Fantasy, right?
TBLS
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I didn't underestimate Kespa players like some but I was 98% sure MVP would beat Flying. Welp.
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On August 30 2012 02:18 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
I didn't underestimate Kespa players like some but I was 98% sure MVP would beat Flying. Welp.
It was pretty much a one sided rape too.
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On August 30 2012 02:12 1handsomE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:05 .vid wrote:On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? both flying and rain were rookies that were often playing in proleague. sorry, what was your argument again? oh, you don't have one? how sad. Because they played in the proleague they are comparable to BW Champions and automatically way better than bteamers sc2 already has? If you are trying to say that (which I guess you are), you would hope they would have won some games. Both of their TLPDs are not great. I won't hate on them I think they are good players all I am saying is their not TOP NOTCH. Which was the point of the elephant thread. You guys are reacting so weird to this haha.
you were shitting on their record, pretending like they're not big names, while in fact they were rookies that allkilled mbcgame, hwaseung oz and grabbed best rookie of the year award, to name a few of their accomplishments. also, they were standard in the proleague and they did well.
so please, get a clue next time. yeah, they didn't win any individual league, but to call them b-teamers is ignorant to say the least.
they're bw code a, and they're dismantling your code s.
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On August 30 2012 02:17 -TesteR- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:06 skypacer wrote:On August 30 2012 02:02 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:55 disciple wrote:On August 30 2012 01:44 1handsomE wrote:On August 30 2012 01:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 29 2012 23:37 monkybone wrote:
I just feel the need to rationalize this blow...
MKP had the game, he had an insane advantage due to excellent banshee control and macro behind it. Then, he felt the game was won, and actually killing his opponent was merely a formality. He tried to drop which got shut down badly due to miscontrol. He then got stuck to the though of macroing up and then attacking Rain up front, and after several bad engagements they got about even. After that, he got dropped, and I don't think he had the watch tower at that moment, so he didn't see the protoss army moving towards his 4th proceeding to kill all his ghosts. Overconfidence in his position lost MKP the game.
MvP figured Protoss would go standard with his scouting, but even with 2 sentries he didn't go nexus, he went robo. Really non-standard build, and it completely tricked mvp, who had gone fast 3 CC's. I feel like the Protoss could have killed MvP if he had followed up with 2-3 more gates rather than the nexus, but he decided just to pressure, and with the bunkers barely not going up he managed to get a good position down the ramp, allowing the warped in zealots to kill a substantial amount of scvs. Honestly, I think the Protoss build was risky, and if mvp had built the bunkers seconds earlier, mvp would have won that game easily. This was bad luck for mvp, and the game was basically lost after that. The thing is both games showcased just how good mechanically both kespa players are. Look at how rain had a permanent split of his hts, putting a few split up ones in different places of his 4th base, then individually moving in with them to storm and feedback while he sent back his army. It was the best ht control i have ever seen. Then he did small zealot harasses everywhere to force mkp to multitask and picked off a bunch of ghosts for it. Also if you looked at rain's army control, he always micro'ed his deathball to avoid viking fire and emps. In the flying game, the biggest play was when mvp tried to drop in the main, which he did and then attack up the ramp towards the second and finally the third. Flying sent small waves of chargelots to delay, while his main force dealt with mvp's force going up the ramp. Then finally he split his collosus ball and sent half of it to deal with the 6 medivac ball in his main and half towards beating the large force of bio going for his third. He even had perfect ffs at the attack on the third. If you watch games of GSL protoss, they rarely split their collosus ball as well as flying did in that game. So because Rain's control is so good, that would translate into BW championships right? Or atleast a winning record? Right? Oh... But! Atleast Flying's BW record is impeccable. Oh... So wait, the B teamers are winning in SC2, wait, just like they used to?! Because you know, most of the champions are b teamers? So this proves what about the elephant thing again? Its pretty obvious you paid no attention to the BW scene. Both Flying and Rain were young and very talented rookies with distinctive styles and a lot of potential. Were they going to become the Bisu and Stork is hard to say but the main thing is that they are motivated and good enough to translate their skills to SC2. I believe the main problem with a lot of kespa players is finding the motivation to play and learn a new game. If Bisu was motivated to the bone he was going to catch up to MC/Seed in no time and easily become better than both. The Kespa players that are doing well right now are generally young guys or title hungry dudes like fantasy. All I am saying is those guys are not bw Champions. Maybe they are better than Nestea/mvp/mc were, but their records aren't much better. The elephant article is all about BW Champions rolling ESF players. So far, that has not happened. You've never mentioned Fantasy, right? TBLS
Fantasy is BW champion, and an S-class, TBLS is just 4 people.
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EPT
