On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
He said in one of the proleague interviews after winning a SC2 match that he didn't like SC2 in the beginning but he could now see the potential.
I think the exact quote went something like: "When I first started BW, I fell in love with the explosive play of Zerg. I'm beginning to see the potential is still there in SC2."
It should be noted that his victory was not on a map where Protoss can simply wall off to amass its 200 supply army.
So what was JD suppose to do? Throw away his advantage and his beloved Zerg style play so he can make a boring 200/200 Broodlord-Infestor deathball? I think JD is too stubborn for that. He'd rather lose than subject his fans to borefests.
On August 20 2012 23:38 Assirra wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:33 GreyKnight wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
it's his style. he enjoys low cost mass units
Yea well to bad it simply does not work, to low hp so the units melt before they did damage at all
I found the video of JD Proleague win.
This is JD style play. The interview I mentioned before happened after this match.
Seriously, Blizzard needs to stop making stupid maps where Protoss can just block off ramp and go straight into boring 200/200 deathball play.
So SC2 should be designed around JD's play style? Let's hope JD is not as stubborn as you said. Hopefully he can adapt to sc2 and then add touches of his own style. He should not just try to play his BW 'style' even when it doesn't work.
Unfortunately for your argument, JD's preferred style is what made zerg iconic in the videogame industry. I have played with and chatted with people on WoW, Civ, Total War and numerous other game franchises who do not care for and have never played SC:BW or SC2 but know what "zerging" means. It would be highly ironic if SC2 zerg is designed not to "zerg", even if it's just in the late game.
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
He said in one of the proleague interviews after winning a SC2 match that he didn't like SC2 in the beginning but he could now see the potential.
I think the exact quote went something like: "When I first started BW, I fell in love with the explosive play of Zerg. I'm beginning to see the potential is still there in SC2."
It should be noted that his victory was not on a map where Protoss can simply wall off to amass its 200 supply army.
So what was JD suppose to do? Throw away his advantage and his beloved Zerg style play so he can make a boring 200/200 Broodlord-Infestor deathball? I think JD is too stubborn for that. He'd rather lose than subject his fans to borefests.
On August 20 2012 23:38 Assirra wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:33 GreyKnight wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
it's his style. he enjoys low cost mass units
Yea well to bad it simply does not work, to low hp so the units melt before they did damage at all
This is JD style play. The interview I mentioned before happened after this match.
Seriously, Blizzard needs to stop making stupid maps where Protoss can just block off ramp and go straight into boring 200/200 deathball play.
wasn't at all like that in bw either *roll eyes*
wall in expand, amass units, hopes zerg doesn't hydra bust, take extra bases and push out with 200/200 deahtball...
In BW unless in TvP anyone hardly gets to 200/200 . you don't need a 1a death ball to kill your opponent , because there isn't this allmighty spell called the force field that unables you to control your units .
To be fair, 200/200 army is a lot bigger in BW due to supply cost and worker difference. But it is true that due to unit control and ai, siege units, high ground advantage. BW macro games are fought on multiple fronts rather than moving a death ball across the map. SC2 armies as so much less efficient when split that keeping your army together is so much more powerful in most situations.
ZvP comes down to either a hydra bust, Z dying to harass or them having a split map situation with a deathball.
Just the majority of games the deathball gets split a little to pick zerg bases off, where as in sc2 its alot harder to do it.
ZvP in BW is a matchup where literrally you'll have actions all over the place. Mutalisks Harassing, DTs Dropping, Zealot/HTs microed against Hydra/Lurk. And then in the lategame, you'll have shuttles flying everywhere with Doom Drops in the main by the Zerg and then in the midst of all this, the Zerg forces will have Ultral/Ling vs Protoss' Zealot, Archon and Reaver composition.
On August 20 2012 21:53 FataLe wrote: Squirtle or Seed. I would say Creator but I don't trust his nerves as much as I think he does.
Agreed pretty much. I'd say Squirtle has the edge against Seed because his PvP is godly, but I think we said that like 6 times last GSL, sooo I'm going with Seed.
Wooo all my favorite players got through! Wooo no elephant discussion! What a great night Sad that JD lost though, though I kind of expected him to lose to Rain anyway, after seeing them both play the matchup in other matches.
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
He said in one of the proleague interviews after winning a SC2 match that he didn't like SC2 in the beginning but he could now see the potential.
I think the exact quote went something like: "When I first started BW, I fell in love with the explosive play of Zerg. I'm beginning to see the potential is still there in SC2."
It should be noted that his victory was not on a map where Protoss can simply wall off to amass its 200 supply army.
So what was JD suppose to do? Throw away his advantage and his beloved Zerg style play so he can make a boring 200/200 Broodlord-Infestor deathball? I think JD is too stubborn for that. He'd rather lose than subject his fans to borefests.
On August 20 2012 23:38 Assirra wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:33 GreyKnight wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
it's his style. he enjoys low cost mass units
Yea well to bad it simply does not work, to low hp so the units melt before they did damage at all
This is JD style play. The interview I mentioned before happened after this match.
Seriously, Blizzard needs to stop making stupid maps where Protoss can just block off ramp and go straight into boring 200/200 deathball play.
wasn't at all like that in bw either *roll eyes*
wall in expand, amass units, hopes zerg doesn't hydra bust, take extra bases and push out with 200/200 deahtball...
In BW unless in TvP anyone hardly gets to 200/200 . you don't need a 1a death ball to kill your opponent , because there isn't this allmighty spell called the force field that unables you to control your units .
To be fair, 200/200 army is a lot bigger in BW due to supply cost and worker difference. But it is true that due to unit control and ai, siege units, high ground advantage. BW macro games are fought on multiple fronts rather than moving a death ball across the map. SC2 armies as so much less efficient when split that keeping your army together is so much more powerful in most situations.
ZvP comes down to either a hydra bust, Z dying to harass or them having a split map situation with a deathball.
Just the majority of games the deathball gets split a little to pick zerg bases off, where as in sc2 its alot harder to do it.
ZvP in BW is a matchup where literrally you'll have actions all over the place. Mutalisks Harassing, DTs Dropping, Zealot/HTs microed against Hydra/Lurk. And then in the lategame, you'll have shuttles flying everywhere with Doom Drops in the main by the Zerg and then in the midst of all this, the Zerg forces will have Ultral/Ling vs Protoss' Zealot, Archon and Reaver composition.
Correct. It really irritates me when when folks who clearly do not understand BW attempt to state BW facts. And other than the facts you stated, off the top of my head, the only pro Korean BW ZvP games that went to 200/200 were Savior vs. Nal_ra on Sin Peaks of Baekdu and Bisu vs. Savior back in January 2009 during the Lost Saga MSL. Other than that... I can't think of anything. At all. That says a lot.
Fleuria, please do some more research.
EDIT: And by the way, neither of those games involved walling off and chilling while amassing 200/200. There were several engagements on several fronts throughout the map, much like the instances Xiphos mentioned.
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
He said in one of the proleague interviews after winning a SC2 match that he didn't like SC2 in the beginning but he could now see the potential.
I think the exact quote went something like: "When I first started BW, I fell in love with the explosive play of Zerg. I'm beginning to see the potential is still there in SC2."
It should be noted that his victory was not on a map where Protoss can simply wall off to amass its 200 supply army.
So what was JD suppose to do? Throw away his advantage and his beloved Zerg style play so he can make a boring 200/200 Broodlord-Infestor deathball? I think JD is too stubborn for that. He'd rather lose than subject his fans to borefests.
On August 20 2012 23:38 Assirra wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:33 GreyKnight wrote:
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
it's his style. he enjoys low cost mass units
Yea well to bad it simply does not work, to low hp so the units melt before they did damage at all
This is JD style play. The interview I mentioned before happened after this match.
Seriously, Blizzard needs to stop making stupid maps where Protoss can just block off ramp and go straight into boring 200/200 deathball play.
So SC2 should be designed around JD's play style? Let's hope JD is not as stubborn as you said. Hopefully he can adapt to sc2 and then add touches of his own style. He should not just try to play his BW 'style' even when it doesn't work.
Unfortunately for your argument, JD's preferred style is what made zerg iconic in the videogame industry. I have played with and chatted with people on WoW, Civ, Total War and numerous other game franchises who do not care for and have never played SC:BW or SC2 but know what "zerging" means. It would be highly ironic if SC2 zerg is designed not to "zerg", even if it's just in the late game.
How exactly is that unfortunate for his argument? His argument is rooted in plain reality. What you're saying about the iconic Zerg BW style has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that SC2 is different - it's not going to change anytime soon, though I do hope that HotS makes the matchup more dynamic in unique ways. JD will simply have to adapt, no way around it.
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
He said in one of the proleague interviews after winning a SC2 match that he didn't like SC2 in the beginning but he could now see the potential.
I think the exact quote went something like: "When I first started BW, I fell in love with the explosive play of Zerg. I'm beginning to see the potential is still there in SC2."
It should be noted that his victory was not on a map where Protoss can simply wall off to amass its 200 supply army.
So what was JD suppose to do? Throw away his advantage and his beloved Zerg style play so he can make a boring 200/200 Broodlord-Infestor deathball? I think JD is too stubborn for that. He'd rather lose than subject his fans to borefests.
On August 20 2012 22:32 Daray wrote: Is there a reason why zerg (well jaedong in this case) delay the hive so much after handling the early pressure without losing too much and seeing the protoss taking a third? You're stuck fighting the deathball with roach,ling,infestor + often times barely getting the corruptors in time. Also lazy with the upgrades.
it's his style. he enjoys low cost mass units
Isn't this just stephanos style (who JD is a big fan of)?
Isn't this pretty much stephanos style (who JD is a big fan of)? Yea well to bad it simply does not work, to low hp so the units melt before they did damage at all
EPT
