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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:56 Darneck wrote: Because zerg drops are obviously as good and often used as terran ones right? Because I don't think that drg was pushed to his multitasking limit in a 1v1 baneling war. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4180 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:56 4Servy wrote: mc and nestea were nothing compared to mvp who was the only A team player switching early. what you are saying is not the point, still they are BW exes and they already dominated somehow | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:52 M2 wrote: Aren't MVP, Nestea and MC actually a part of the Elephant? Especially MVP who was a young and promising BW terran. They just came earlier. Nestea is not part of the elephant. He never did well in 1v1 with an extremely lackluster record. And he did stay long in the BW scene, so arguably, he's past the elephant stage. I didn't even think ForGG fit the description. MC, I'm not sure, he had a terrible record but I recall he wasn't in the BW scene long. Maybe if he stayed longer, he would've developed into an A-Teamer. I dunno though. Mvp is the only one who fits that description. And, well, he said himself, within a few months or less, he climbed to the top of the Korean ladder. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:52 mango_destroyer wrote: you do realize the top kespa players most likely have better mechanics or equal to DRG right? It is practically a requirement to stay near the top in BW Foreigners couldn't even compete with Koreans in BW. Go download a replay pack of any SC2 tournament. Almost every korean has higher epm than the foreigners in the tournament, but since SC2 isn't as mechanically demanding as BW foreigners can win through other means like timings, build order wins, or winning a single battle. Still, the player with the higher epm wins more often-- nothing really to debate here go do the research yourself. So yes, while it's not as severe as in BW, DRG can lose because of mechanics, and BW players (especially top ones), have superior mechanics than DRG and every other SC2 player just because the nature of the game from which they're coming. Look at a player like Kas. 150ish epm-- same as many people in mid masters, and while he performs very well, there are many games he loses to Koreans in which he's simply out multitasked. (look at his recent game vs Miya. It was absolutely brutal and one of the most one sided series I've seen in my life.) | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:57 bo1b wrote: Because I don't think that drg was pushed to his multitasking limit in a 1v1 baneling war. So if you're hard-pressed microing while macroing, that isn't multitasking? Just because it isn't fancy doesn't mean it's not multitasking. The more DRG was pushed to micro, the more his macro slipped. Effort's macro did not skip a beat at all. | ||
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8mmspikes
United States1704 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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8mmspikes
United States1704 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:48 Squeegy wrote: I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse. Well as the observer you can see what is forced and what not. yay for ceiling cat vision! Forcing mistakes from the opponent is something else then suddenly playing worse by yourself and can only be explained by factors you don't see. So the throwing of your opponent from his gameplan is excluded, that would be good play for me. I usually lose myself if i can't shake of the i can't lose this game feeling. And it has nothing to do with my opponent. And yes in a professional sport you usually are better at not losing concentration, but certain conditions can trigger that too. | ||
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Infernal Knight
United States557 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:59 silent_owl wrote: So if you're hard-pressed microing while macroing, that isn't multitasking? Just because it isn't fancy doesn't mean it's not multitasking. The more DRG was pushed to micro, the more his macro slipped. Effort's macro did not skip a beat at all. I think the argument is the degree of effort (pun lol) rather than whether or not it was 'demanding'. It was definitely demanding; is ling/bling micro and injecting a single hatchery more difficult than defending simultaneous drops while trying to inject three or four hatcheries? That's subjective. | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better. Edit: at least for that game. | ||
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8mmspikes
United States1704 Posts
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Looms
United States4624 Posts
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking. So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better. also, he never spotted the nydus. normally, i wouldnt expect him to miss that kind of thing. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
2. Started playing soccer in 7th grade. Played basketball before that for 4 years. Which is better 8 years later? ... Who cares as long as you are better. | ||
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silent_owl
Philippines3098 Posts
On August 15 2012 21:03 Looms wrote: also, he never spotted the nydus. normally, i wouldnt expect him to miss that kind of thing. Another indication that DRG had to pour more attention to the battle at the FRONT instead of being on top of everything like he was against other opponents. | ||
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Infernal Knight
United States557 Posts
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking. So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better. Edit: at least for that game. Well, players are people and people are different. It could very well be that Effort is superior at that scenario but he's not as good at defending aforementioned drops. ZvZ is also really weird in that every single unit is a huge decision - is this larva better as a drone or a zergling? Should I rebuild my queen now? Should I build Zerglings? Obviously, Effort won as the players descended the logic tree, but I don't think it's likely that DRG would 'forget' to rebuild a single queen. Then again, it's all conjecture because we can't know what's in the players' minds. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:58 xrapture wrote: Foreigners couldn't even compete with Koreans in BW. Go download a replay pack of any SC2 tournament. Almost every korean has higher epm than the foreigners in the tournament, but since SC2 isn't as mechanically demanding as BW foreigners can win through other means like timings, build order wins, or winning a single battle. Still, the player with the higher epm wins more often-- nothing really to debate here go do the research yourself. So yes, while it's not as severe as in BW, DRG can lose because of mechanics, and BW players (especially top ones), have superior mechanics than DRG and every other SC2 player just because the nature of the game from which they're coming. Look at a player like Kas. 150ish epm-- same as many people in mid masters, and while he performs very well, there are many games he loses to Koreans in which he's simply out multitasked. (look at his recent game vs Miya. It was absolutely brutal and one of the most one sided series I've seen in my life.) I don't remember too many bw players having a greater eapm than drg did. I remember most of them (from the occasional leaked replay/wcg) having 170-200ish which is less then people like drg and losira. I suppose that eapm doesn't translate directly into mechanics, but it is certainly and indicator. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
On August 15 2012 20:26 8mmspikes wrote: well...7 KeSPA players entered the tournament, 7 KeSPA players are still alive...well played by all! Nice to see new competition! 6 kespa in the loser brackets tho | ||
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8mmspikes
United States1704 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7997 Posts
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