On August 15 2012 08:33 Fionn wrote: If there was a night to skip WCS Korea, this is probably the one.
I always hope to be proven wrong by these unknown players.
Unfortunately you're probably right. I might keep the stream open and if suddenly I hear the casters going insane I'll take note. If we get more than 0/3 good series though I'll be happy.
SK v Coca could be good, but ZvZ still has a lot of build order wins so it could also just finish. I know NRGMonk wrote a PvP viewing guide which was nice and I've seen a share of PvP so I understand the MU, but ZvZ I struggle to enjoy largely because I don't really understand the timings. I sort of understand the compositions and basic reasonings behind actions, but typically I don't get why certain games even have these 'build order losses'.
Would love someone to point me to either a ZvZ viewing guide or give me the lowdown, because I know some people actually love ZvZ. Feed me your passion!
On August 15 2012 08:33 Fionn wrote: If there was a night to skip WCS Korea, this is probably the one.
I always hope to be proven wrong by these unknown players.
Unfortunately you're probably right. I might keep the stream open and if suddenly I hear the casters going insane I'll take note. If we get more than 0/3 good series though I'll be happy.
SK v Coca could be good, but ZvZ still has a lot of build order wins so it could also just finish. I know NRGMonk wrote a PvP viewing guide which was nice and I've seen a share of PvP so I understand the MU, but ZvZ I struggle to enjoy largely because I don't really understand the timings. I sort of understand the compositions and basic reasonings behind actions, but typically I don't get why certain games even have these 'build order losses'.
Would love someone to point me to either a ZvZ viewing guide or give me the lowdown, because I know some people actually love ZvZ. Feed me your passion!
if it's anything like yesterday's zvz it will be awesome :D
but yes, i hope for a zvz guide sometime too haha. and less roach infestor plz ;D
On August 15 2012 08:33 Fionn wrote: If there was a night to skip WCS Korea, this is probably the one.
I always hope to be proven wrong by these unknown players.
Unfortunately you're probably right. I might keep the stream open and if suddenly I hear the casters going insane I'll take note. If we get more than 0/3 good series though I'll be happy.
SK v Coca could be good, but ZvZ still has a lot of build order wins so it could also just finish. I know NRGMonk wrote a PvP viewing guide which was nice and I've seen a share of PvP so I understand the MU, but ZvZ I struggle to enjoy largely because I don't really understand the timings. I sort of understand the compositions and basic reasonings behind actions, but typically I don't get why certain games even have these 'build order losses'.
Would love someone to point me to either a ZvZ viewing guide or give me the lowdown, because I know some people actually love ZvZ. Feed me your passion!
What part of ZvZ don't you understand? Openings such as 9pool > hatch first > 14pool > 9pool (not quite sure where 6pool or 6pool+drones go to be honest)? Or transitions such as roaches, infestors, or mutas?
My naive understanding of ZvZ is once players stabilize to 2 bases, the main choice a player has to make is: mutas or infestors
Mutas: Now a days, mutas are used for map control as opposed to straight up kill your opponent. 6-12 mutas help clear out overlords, force spores or more queens, and help against a small number of roaches and lings. Rather vulnerable to some roach timings, which why sometimes you see massive spine walls (because roaches with +1 2-shot unupgraded lings and the muta player is trying to save his bank until the spire is finished). Player can keep harassing until infestors are out. Once infestors are out, fungal is quite scary to deal with. Splitting mutas is a decent answer, but still risky. If hydras come out first, the muta player may still feel comfortable finding areas not covered by hydras. As the player establishes 3 bases, he starts making infestors and perhaps roaches or teching to ultras. In the end, even though the muta player may have established his third a little later, he is able to drone harder because of the map control. Drone too hard, however, and the muta player might be caught by surprise by an attack composed of roaches, hydras, and a few infestors when the muta player's main attack force is, well, mutas.
Mutas vs mutas is tricky because teching to something else costs a lot of gas and time, so the player teching is vulnerable. Ling runbys become more important in particular because there are no roaches around and mutas can snipe banes.
Infestors: Infestors are usually coupled with roaches or lings and spines. It's a more defensive build in terms of attacking your opponent, but the player is able to take the third more aggressively because of the strength of fungal and chokes. Infestor+roach is most common and is usually played like a tug of war against infestor+roach. Hydras are a typical addition to the infestor+roach composition because of their dps, range, and fungal's ability to keep units locked down at a range where hydras can fire at roaches/lings but the lings can't attack the hydras. If the infestor player is facing mutas, hydras tend to be added on earlier. Infestor+ling is less common, and the goal here is to tech to ultras because fungal+ultras is pretty good against roaches, especially with lings to surround. Again, the player is more defensive until the infestor player has a good number of fungals, a massive amount of lings, or some ultras.
Roaches: All-inning off roaches with two bases is meant to catch Zergs as they're teching and thus not wanting to make units to save their bank. Less common on bigger maps because with good overlord spread, you can react very well as soon as the roaches move out. This can lead to another tug-of-war scenario with both sides pushing each other back.
Not really sure if that was helpful at all, but that's a brief overview of ZvZ I guess. As to build order wins, I think that has to do more with early pools and fast hatches. Often times it's a meta-game thing because if one player goes 15 hatch and another 6pool, there's really no way the 15 hatch player can have lings or a spine up by the time lings (and maybe drones) are at his base. It's just timing. You want to make as many drones as possible while still being safe, etc.
On August 15 2012 08:33 Fionn wrote: If there was a night to skip WCS Korea, this is probably the one.
I always hope to be proven wrong by these unknown players.
Unfortunately you're probably right. I might keep the stream open and if suddenly I hear the casters going insane I'll take note. If we get more than 0/3 good series though I'll be happy.
SK v Coca could be good, but ZvZ still has a lot of build order wins so it could also just finish. I know NRGMonk wrote a PvP viewing guide which was nice and I've seen a share of PvP so I understand the MU, but ZvZ I struggle to enjoy largely because I don't really understand the timings. I sort of understand the compositions and basic reasonings behind actions, but typically I don't get why certain games even have these 'build order losses'.
Would love someone to point me to either a ZvZ viewing guide or give me the lowdown, because I know some people actually love ZvZ. Feed me your passion!
What part of ZvZ don't you understand? Openings such as 9pool > hatch first > 14pool > 9pool (not quite sure where 6pool or 6pool+drones go to be honest)? Or transitions such as roaches, infestors, or mutas?
My naive understanding of ZvZ is once players stabilize to 2 bases, the main choice a player has to make is: mutas or infestors
Mutas: Now a days, mutas are used for map control as opposed to straight up kill your opponent. 6-12 mutas help clear out overlords, force spores or more queens, and help against a small number of roaches and lings. Rather vulnerable to some roach timings, which why sometimes you see massive spine walls (because roaches with +1 2-shot unupgraded lings and the muta player is trying to save his bank until the spire is finished). Player can keep harassing until infestors are out. Once infestors are out, fungal is quite scary to deal with. Splitting mutas is a decent answer, but still risky. If hydras come out first, the muta player may still feel comfortable finding areas not covered by hydras. As the player establishes 3 bases, he starts making infestors and perhaps roaches or teching to ultras. In the end, even though the muta player may have established his third a little later, he is able to drone harder because of the map control. Drone too hard, however, and the muta player might be caught by surprise by an attack composed of roaches, hydras, and a few infestors when the muta player's main attack force is, well, mutas.
Mutas vs mutas is tricky because teching to something else costs a lot of gas and time, so the player teching is vulnerable. Ling runbys become more important in particular because there are no roaches around and mutas can snipe banes.
Infestors: Infestors are usually coupled with roaches or lings and spines. It's a more defensive build in terms of attacking your opponent, but the player is able to take the third more aggressively because of the strength of fungal and chokes. Infestor+roach is most common and is usually played like a tug of war against infestor+roach. Hydras are a typical addition to the infestor+roach composition because of their dps, range, and fungal's ability to keep units locked down at a range where hydras can fire at roaches/lings but the lings can't attack the hydras. If the infestor player is facing mutas, hydras tend to be added on earlier. Infestor+ling is less common, and the goal here is to tech to ultras because fungal+ultras is pretty good against roaches, especially with lings to surround. Again, the player is more defensive until the infestor player has a good number of fungals, a massive amount of lings, or some ultras.
Roaches: All-inning off roaches with two bases is meant to catch Zergs as they're teching and thus not wanting to make units to save their bank. Less common on bigger maps because with good overlord spread, you can react very well as soon as the roaches move out. This can lead to another tug-of-war scenario with both sides pushing each other back.
Not really sure if that was helpful at all, but that's a brief overview of ZvZ I guess. As to build order wins, I think that has to do more with early pools and fast hatches. Often times it's a meta-game thing because if one player goes 15 hatch and another 6pool, there's really no way the 15 hatch player can have lings or a spine up by the time lings (and maybe drones) are at his base. It's just timing. You want to make as many drones as possible while still being safe, etc.
Thank you for this!
I sort of get some things in the matchup, but a lot of games have things occur that I don't quite get still. Usually finer things. If they happen I'll ask whilst watching I guess, can't think of specifics.
Tonight will be interesting. I'm not really invested in any of these players. I hope they have some fun games though. B4 is fun to watch just because you can sing along to his name by repeating his name over and over again.
On August 15 2012 18:06 Shock710 wrote: ...from juniel to...THIS g.na song...*facepalm*
u kidding
first you have girlproblems then u skt1 fan
now you dislike gna mv?
-___-
rofl, dont worry i still love u Juliette , even if ur a KT fan and even if u dont have girl problems, i like G.na but not this mv, especially after Juniel its like crying than having a boner...very weird
On August 15 2012 18:06 Shock710 wrote: ...from juniel to...THIS g.na song...*facepalm*
u kidding
first you have girlproblems then u skt1 fan
now you dislike gna mv?
-___-
rofl, dont worry i still love u Juliette , even if ur a KT fan and even if u dont have girl problems, i like G.na but not this mv, especially after Juniel its like crying than having a boner...very weird
I actually didn't believe that people were dealing with super-low-quality broadcasts until someone posted an image yesterday. Mine's always looked more or less fine and run smoothly. >.>
I'm curious. Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that recently Zergs seem way too eager to puke out tons of Infested Terrans instead of going for Fungal Growth?
some roaches deny sun's 5th for a bit, whole army goes up, mship and 2 immortals at a time maiking, 34 stalkers in army, and some stalkers barely didnt kill horror's 5th
On August 15 2012 18:31 Infernal Knight wrote: I'm curious. Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that recently Zergs seem way too eager to puke out tons of Infested Terrans instead of going for Fungal Growth?
When you have that much infestors it makes more sense to use both fungal and infested terrans to maximize DPS.
On August 15 2012 18:31 Infernal Knight wrote: I'm curious. Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that recently Zergs seem way too eager to puke out tons of Infested Terrans instead of going for Fungal Growth?
When you have that much infestors it makes more sense to use both fungal and infested terrans to maximize DPS.
Maybe I'm just not seeing the Fungals because the animation is curiously small on Stalkers.
lol so he sends zealots to finish killing the hatch, np
warp prisms! 14 roach, 9 BL, 8 infestor and i think lings, corruptors too now. single burrowed ling still denying protos 5th, more lings come but blink stalkers surrind the lings. zealots in main via wp do some damage, gets cleaned up ezpz
horror slowly pushing through that center hallways with spines/infestors/broods, sun trying to clear some of it out now, kills off a few spines which is nice. Also has a small army killing horrors 5th again! Really abusing that broodlord immobility
On August 15 2012 18:35 BlindKill wrote: whats this hidden buff wolf was talking about
The carriers can now move around while attacking a target, but the interceptors fly in a more concentrated path, making it easier to fungal. Also good god i am in love with Rain's play right now..
oooo an overlrod is barely out of vision of the stargates, carrier transition will catch him off guard. horror snipes the mothership though which is HUGE!! But now hes making pure broods, that could be a huge mistake :O
On August 15 2012 18:35 BlindKill wrote: whats this hidden buff wolf was talking about
The carriers can now move around while attacking a target, but the interceptors fly in a more concentrated path, making it easier to fungal. Also good god i am in love with Rain's play right now..
On August 15 2012 18:35 BlindKill wrote: whats this hidden buff wolf was talking about
The carriers can now move around while attacking a target, but the interceptors fly in a more concentrated path, making it easier to fungal. Also good god i am in love with Rain's play right now..
So they're like Carriers from BW now?
Well no because they are still terrible but now they are slightly less terrible.
On August 15 2012 18:35 BlindKill wrote: whats this hidden buff wolf was talking about
The carriers can now move around while attacking a target, but the interceptors fly in a more concentrated path, making it easier to fungal. Also good god i am in love with Rain's play right now..
So they're like Carriers from BW now?
Well no because they are still terrible but now they are slightly less terrible.
Was a good game, but Rain losing that mothership to only corruptors while it was full on energy and there were archons and stalkers right beside it lost him the game...lets hope it didn't lose him the series!
Hive is on the way now, Sun has a bit of a timing before brood lord tech is out. Here comes his push!! horrors defense was pretty decent at first but sun is making good progress. excellent hit of the timing window
Horror, like too many zergs relies too much on his infestors to win him the game. No flank or smart positional play, just clump up infestors behind spines and prepare to spam fungual and a-move roaches. denied.
Flank the colossus with roaches and just kill the stalkers that are pinned between spines and roaches and constantly fungualed.
this is so fucking typical... sun plays good and then makes something completely fully incredibly retarded that is so beyond reason you cant believe it...not even forgetting something, just actively commiting suicide, was the same in BW
Very interesting that Rain goes charge consistently in these games, not a lot of protoss actually get that upgrade in PvZ. usually it just means that the zealots run to their inevitable doom even quicker then they already did :p
On August 15 2012 19:30 FreudianTrip wrote: "I'm down and probably dead. How can I get back into this game? I'll put my broodlords all in the space of a 1x1 hex"
Pretty sure he did that on purpose for the show. He was dead already anyway.
On August 15 2012 19:32 Infernal Knight wrote: Well played by Rain. GSL Zerg players really need to step it up - not just against KeSPA but across the board.
Horror shouldnt be used as a representation.
Generally agreed though. A lot of zergs underperforming especially in the last month. Leenock and Curious are potentially the only GSL zergs who is notably doing well lately.
On August 15 2012 19:32 Qikz wrote: Did Khaldor just swear or is that only a swear sign in the UK? O_O
Only a swear in UK. Everywhere else it's peace or V for victory. I thought it was only a swear when you thrust it up and down anyway?
Nah, just hold em out that way, I've never noticed it be used the other way around anywhere else before suprisingly. Just presumed it was a swear sign everywhere.
On August 15 2012 19:31 6NR wrote: kespa players are improving
That was a permabad opponent who just lost from a ridiculous advantage he never should have lost in... Kespa guy did fine but Horror really really blew that.
Does the way u hold ur when doing that matter? like palm facing towards u and away, i think the away is fine all asians do it, dont know anything about the swear thing
On August 15 2012 19:32 Qikz wrote: Did Khaldor just swear or is that only a swear sign in the UK? O_O
Only a UK thing.
Either way means Peace everywhere else.
In Australia it means FU also and I'm sure those two are not the only ones
Errr not really. It's the way in which you 'use' the fingers. An upwards motion with them might be FU. Otherwise I've seen plenty of people do this "hip" peace sign a lot.
On August 15 2012 19:32 Infernal Knight wrote: Well played by Rain. GSL Zerg players really need to step it up - not just against KeSPA but across the board.
Horror shouldnt be used as a representation.
Generally agreed though. A lot of zergs underperforming especially in the last month. Leenock and Curious are potentially the only GSL zergs who is notably doing well lately.
I wouldn't be using Horror representatively, for certain. But in the qualifiers decent-to-good Zergs fell, Symbol's gone down, DRG and Leenock just recently, and midlevel Zerg players like Yugioh who can turn in good performances have universally been terrible. Zerg seems to be having a collective crisis following their Month of Overpowered.
Thing is, even in places where this V sign is supposedly a swear, I'm fairly sure everyone would immediately recognize the middle finger for what it is.
It is offensive in the UK because apparently the French would cut off English archers fingers, sticking them up at people is kind of just a "fuck you, I still have these." Other than Australia and other English colonies it isn't a swear and is meant more as a peace/victory symbol. Hope that clears things up! Now to watch my favourite match of the day
What's the elephant thing everybody is talking about? Sincerely I don't know.
ROFL, this guy has to be trolling right?
Not trolling, really don't know.
well u see one day u'll grown up to be a BIG STRONG elephant (if u eat all ur veggies and practice 30+ games a day) and u'll crush all the sc2 players from gom, GROW GROWN
I agree with the casters. The first game is everything for Coca. Soulkey may feel the pressure too, after all, he may be the only Kespa player to get eliminated in the tournament.
On August 15 2012 19:32 Infernal Knight wrote: Well played by Rain. GSL Zerg players really need to step it up - not just against KeSPA but across the board.
Horror shouldnt be used as a representation.
Generally agreed though. A lot of zergs underperforming especially in the last month. Leenock and Curious are potentially the only GSL zergs who is notably doing well lately.
I wouldn't be using Horror representatively, for certain. But in the qualifiers decent-to-good Zergs fell, Symbol's gone down, DRG and Leenock just recently, and midlevel Zerg players like Yugioh who can turn in good performances have universally been terrible. Zerg seems to be having a collective crisis following their Month of Overpowered.
the zerg OPness never was actually as big in korea. Just look at the previous GSL. We had a pvp finals with 3zergs (Nestea, DRG and Symbol) in ro8. Only one of those even made it into ro4. There always been a severe lack of actual top zergs for some reason. Hell Nestea carried the whole race for a long time till Leenock/DRG started popping up. At least it seems with Kespa players incoming that there is more then 2-3 top zergs at a time.
From what I saw from the Effort games, ZvZ is apparently very mechanically demanding. Attacks happen practically as the first batch of zerglings pop out and it's attack and macro all-game. This could be advantageous for Soulkey.
it's days like this that make me laugh about the people complaining about WCS Korea taking so long, compared to other countries. it doesnt even matter that Mvp and MC had to forfeit their spots lol.
On August 15 2012 19:44 silent_owl wrote: From what I saw from the Effort games, ZvZ is apparently very mechanically demanding. Attacks happen practically as the first batch of zerglings pop out and it's attack and macro all-game. This could be advantageous for Soulkey.
The ling-baneling hatchery style ZvZ is like a knife fight - a lot of slashing and with just one attack someone can get lucky and win it all with a hit in the right place. It's actually much less prevalent currently in the metagame, as GSL Zergs have been favoring midgame Roach/Infestor wars.
The ling-baneling style is very exciting to watch, but nerve-wracking for the players, especially when it goes on for more than 10 minutes like it did yesterday.
On August 15 2012 19:46 silent_owl wrote: 10 pool for Coca. 14p for Soulkey.
14p is standard for ZvZ right? Someone help me out here.
There is no real standard. On this map I would say it's the closer to standard. But, 15 hatch is doable, as well as 15 Hatch 15 Pool. Edit: Reverse those, 15 pool, 15 hatch.
hmm nothing too much of note this game, Soulkey playing pretty relaxed though. Nice of him to make CoCa cancel third, and getting his tech earlier. Those infestors gonna be a problem. OHHH he killed the third now, CoCa in big trouble O_O
Feels like if Soulkey attacks within the next couple of minutes he will just roll over this game...but hes being super passive :/ seems a bit typical of the KeSPA players to try to go to late game
Oh wow, Soulkey even with a nice flank. How the fuck are the KeSPA players already this good? A month ago their games made me facepalm O_O Wonder what the scene will look like in 3 months?
Although I'm rooting for Soulkey, I feel sorry for Coca if he loses. He worked hard to get to where he is, even taking his suspension in the past in stride. He has my respect.
And although sC had his lung operations, I just can't bring myself to back him finding out he slacked off on practice. These Kespa players are dedicated, even with having to switch games. Maybe some of these GOM players are taking their position for granted.
mmh. I guess it is as Jaedong mentioned in his last interview. GSL players are feeling really pressured when playing against kespa players. This is a large burden which seems to worsen their play.
The last Coca game was just awful and he can do way better than that.
I think a lot of these former b-team BW pros are having huge nervous/mental issues when they are faced against players who were very clearly their superiors.
On August 15 2012 20:00 setzer wrote: I think a lot of these former b-team BW pros are having huge nervous/mental issues when they are faced against players who were very clearly their superiors.
yeah that seems likely.
these are jaedong's thoughts about the situation:
In game 3, you made a comeback.
The game had a lot of shakes and turns. It seems that when KeSPA players go up against GSL players, the KeSPA players have the advantage. GSL players' burden of losing to KeSPA players is heavy so if it goes all the way to the third game, that burden gets even heavier. In my case, I was able to play peacefully so I think I was able to make a comeback.
On August 15 2012 20:00 setzer wrote: I think a lot of these former b-team BW pros are having huge nervous/mental issues when they are faced against players who were very clearly their superiors.
The game had a lot of shakes and turns. It seems that when KeSPA players go up against GSL players, the KeSPA players have the advantage. GSL players' burden of losing to KeSPA players is heavy so if it goes all the way to the third game, that burden gets even heavier. In my case, I was able to play peacefully so I think I was able to make a comeback.
Judging by game 2 here... coca is feeling that pressure :/
Add to that, Kespa pros know what it feels like to be on the national spotlight. It does wonders for their nerves plus the fact that they have nothing to lose in this tournament.
On August 15 2012 20:03 silent_owl wrote: Coca losing a queen.
Add to that, Kespa pros know what it feels like to be on the national spotlight. It does wonders for their nerves plus the fact that they have nothing to lose in this tournament.
I'm pretty sure "nothing to lose" is a much bigger factor than GSL players worrying about their "superiors" or being unused to being in the spotlight. There's an enormously higher mental burden being placed on GOM players for losing, and just look at how many of them have turned into train wrecks; no one was playing this terrible a month ago.
i like how a zerg player wans to keep in the mineral trick, wonder if the opinion is the same when a terran player uses this on mules and mine 30 more minerals per mule x3, while other peoples can't use it.
Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
Big difference. Foreigners are scared of Koreans for one.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
Ye but foreigners ain't no A-teamers where the "GSL" koreans have to break a sweat to keep up mechanicly wise.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
I suppose they are afraid the kespa players will eventually become the top dogs, while when they play foreigners gom guys still feel like they are the better players anyway.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
Big difference. Foreigners are scared of Koreans for one.
Yeah I heard NaNi lost a game just because a Korean touched him.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
Big difference. Foreigners are scared of Koreans for one.
An unscientific opinion of mine is also that foreign players have a habit of going to pieces under Korean cheese and early pressure, and you saw those tactics employed early on during the KeSPA switch, but naturally the new players adapted to these tactics very quickly.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
Big difference. Foreigners are scared of Koreans for one.
Yeah I heard NaNi lost a game just because a Korean touched him.
On August 15 2012 20:07 Avidkeystamper wrote: Is there a difference between GSL players playing against top foreigners than against Kespa players? Both are heavily expected to win imo, but they do really well against the former group. Always have, still do.
Big difference. Foreigners are scared of Koreans for one.
An unscientific opinion of mine is also that foreign players have a habit of going to pieces under Korean cheese and early pressure, and you saw those tactics employed early on during the KeSPA switch, but naturally the new players adapted to these tactics very quickly.
Tbh that's one of the reasons I feel that stephano is so successful, he's just so calm.
Oh man Coca got hit hard by this attack, both have so little mining atm, Coca with the bigger bank though. Seems like its evened out a lot more now though
On August 15 2012 20:24 Sedzz wrote: This is actually crazy. BW pro's suddenly dominating Code B/Code A level players?
Coca was obviously incredibly nervous.. those were some messed up decisions by someone who is way better than that.. Soulkey made some messed up choices to give Coca a chance to win too... messy game..
wow getting picked apart ... and then suddenly winning a fight by throwing down a ton of infested terrans. Impressive i didn't even see what happened there. Normally i would say run away fungal and win. That game feels as if soulkey just was like lalala~ .... oh gotta fight ! and got Coca totally of guard who was lalala~ at the moment.
someone explain to me what the fuck is going on with the gsl players. the kespa players are playing well but why the fuck are gsl players suddenly gsl season 1 decision making?
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Zerg needs a buff so bad, they are very underpowered
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
I've been thinking this myself. Like I said before, there's been some kind of race-wide breakdown amongst the GSL Zerg players. It's one of those weird sociological things, I think, where each successive defeat just seems to crush their collective spirits despite the fact that they're not that closely related.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
I've been thinking this myself. Like I said before, there's been some kind of race-wide breakdown amongst the GSL Zerg players. It's one of those weird sociological things, I think, where each successive defeat just seems to crush their collective spirits despite the fact that they're not that closely related.
Zeratul killed a Cerabrate and that sent the Overmind into remission
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
On August 15 2012 20:29 silent_owl wrote: Wow. Soulkey pulled this one out. The elephants are coming, they are growing and it won't be long until nothing can stop them.
To be fair, CoCa made a huge blunder.
Although I have to admit Soulkey not tapping out then and trying out that attack was good decision-making on his part.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
if you notice though, the vast majority of KESPA players doing well are zergs... why? hrmm
There have been some fantastic games in the WCS so far, but alot of really poor ones too. For so many of the GOM players, I'm wondering how they are the ones who made it through the qualifiers.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
I'd say they are all under way more pressure, not just the 2nd tier ones. Also.. these LR threads disgust me nowadays. I think I'll have to avoid them and just post in IEM etc -_- So much trolling/baiting/ignorance.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
if you notice though, the vast majority of KESPA players doing well are zergs... why? hrmm
Because there never been more then 2 - 3 top zergs at the same time. It's always been Nestea + others. Sometimes Losira, sometimes Leenock, sometimes DRG. Which is why i am really glad that we finally see some new zerg blood.
On August 15 2012 20:30 legaton wrote: Damn, Kespa players have become so good in so little time, i'm eager to see them compete in foreign tournaments
Please, leave foreign tournaments to foreigners...
Something tells me that KeSPa players wont travel as much. And if the GOM players want to stay ahead then they need to stop travelling as well. Which means there is a chance we wont be seeing as many Koreans in foreign tournaments anymore
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Hope you are being sarcastic.
? how come? legit question, no?
well in this case it was a zvz -________-
As was effort vs DRG, as was rorO vs Leenock, so yea. The vast majority of GOM players failing to kespa players are zergs failing to kespa zergs.
On August 15 2012 20:30 legaton wrote: Damn, Kespa players have become so good in so little time, i'm eager to see them compete in foreign tournaments
Please, leave foreign tournaments to foreigners...
Something tells me that KeSPa players wont travel as much. And if the GOM players want to stay ahead then they need to stop travelling as well. Which means there is a chance we wont be seeing as many Koreans in foreign tournaments anymore
Seeing as IEM > WCS to MVP and MC, I doubt this will be the case.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
wow just wait till the rest of the kespa players who arent in this tourny catches up...korea will be even more stacked although it will suck for players who were code B/code A who cant keep up.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Hope you are being sarcastic.
? how come? legit question, no?
well in this case it was a zvz -________-
As was effort vs DRG, as was rorO vs Leenock, so yea. The vast majority of GOM players failing to kespa players are zergs failing to kespa zergs.
On August 15 2012 20:30 legaton wrote: Damn, Kespa players have become so good in so little time, i'm eager to see them compete in foreign tournaments
Please, leave foreign tournaments to foreigners...
Something tells me that KeSPa players wont travel as much. And if the GOM players want to stay ahead then they need to stop travelling as well. Which means there is a chance we wont be seeing as many Koreans in foreign tournaments anymore
The alternative is they continue to travel knowing KeSPA won't travel much and just continue to gobble up the money thats in all the large foreign competitions.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
I'd say they are all under way more pressure, not just the 2nd tier ones. Also.. these LR threads disgust me nowadays. I think I'll have to avoid them and just post in IEM etc -_- So much trolling/baiting/ignorance.
Don't forget excuses for losing. A lot of that too.
On August 15 2012 20:29 Infernal Knight wrote: I mean, I could go with the obvious observation and say that the KeSPA players are kicking ass and taking names... in the losers' bracket.
Which is still better than they should be doing. Even they thought they would've been instantly knocked out.
GSL players with bad decisions being faced with pressure plus the extreme mechanical mastery of the Kespa players.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
heh... you obviously havnt watched much SC2 if you think this is all because of Kespa skill. They are good but MOST of these Gom losses the players have looked far worse than their own normal, particularly with bad decision making. Coca fighting IT nowhere near his base for example.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
This.
Maybe it was the case afterall... that the SC2 competition people were watching thus far was all a farce. Real competition has yet to begin.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Hope you are being sarcastic.
? how come? legit question, no?
Most of the wins are Kespa Zergs playing better than GOM Player(Effort vs DRG/Soulkey vs Coca/Roro vs Leenock). If you are trying to imply that balance played a part in them(Kespa) winning then no. Kespa player are catching up faster than we expected.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Hope you are being sarcastic.
? how come? legit question, no?
well in this case it was a zvz -________-
As was effort vs DRG, as was rorO vs Leenock, so yea. The vast majority of GOM players failing to kespa players are zergs failing to kespa zergs.
Vast majority = like half maybe?
Pretty sure the only GSL zerg who lost to a kespa player who wasn't a zerg was yugioh who lost to reality and herO
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
Mechanics aren't everything in this game, but it has been clear that the Kespa players have just been able to keep up with better micro and macro at the same time, forcing second-tier GSL players to multitask beyond their ability.
Under that kind of mechanical pressure, bad decision-making is bound to follow.
On August 15 2012 20:29 Infernal Knight wrote: I mean, I could go with the obvious observation and say that the KeSPA players are kicking ass and taking names... in the losers' bracket.
Which is still better than they should be doing. Even they thought they would've been instantly knocked out.
GSL players with bad decisions being faced with pressure plus the extreme mechanical mastery of the Kespa players.
Well, the pressure is causing the bad decisions. Look, I realize we're not going to convince any hard-core elephanters that the GOM players are playing really fucking terribly because that's just how things go on an internet forum, but this is not the quality of play they have been exhibiting in the past month. They are, one and all, knuckling under to a pressure that's probably more intense than we know.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Hope you are being sarcastic.
? how come? legit question, no?
zerg is so easy to learn, you only need 1 build for each race that you play every single game
+well yeah, the obvious reason i wont name because id get banned t-t
On August 15 2012 20:30 legaton wrote: Damn, Kespa players have become so good in so little time, i'm eager to see them compete in foreign tournaments
Please, leave foreign tournaments to foreigners...
Something tells me that KeSPa players wont travel as much. And if the GOM players want to stay ahead then they need to stop travelling as well. Which means there is a chance we wont be seeing as many Koreans in foreign tournaments anymore
Seeing as IEM > WCS to MVP and MC, I doubt this will be the case.
On August 15 2012 20:26 opterown wrote: if you notice though, the vast majority of GOM players falling to kespa players have been zergs only... why? hrmm
Hope you are being sarcastic.
? how come? legit question, no?
Most of the wins are Kespa Zergs playing better than GOM Player(Effort vs DRG/Soulkey vs Coca/Roro vs Leenock). If you are trying to imply that balance played a part in them(Kespa) winning then no. Kespa player are catching up faster than we expected.
ELEPHANT!!!!
How you did see balance whining in that is beyond me. It was a simple observation...
On August 15 2012 20:30 legaton wrote: Damn, Kespa players have become so good in so little time, i'm eager to see them compete in foreign tournaments
Please, leave foreign tournaments to foreigners...
Something tells me that KeSPa players wont travel as much. And if the GOM players want to stay ahead then they need to stop travelling as well. Which means there is a chance we wont be seeing as many Koreans in foreign tournaments anymore
The alternative is they continue to travel knowing KeSPA won't travel much and just continue to gobble up the money thats in all the large foreign competitions.
I think MC attends so many tournaments because he knows those Kespa guys will dominate soon. He is collecting money when he can. If i'm not mistaken, he once said in an interview that he wouldn't win if those BW A-teamers switch. I think MC must be fully aware of the talents those guys have as he saw them closely as a B-teamer. Attending 3 tournaments in 3 different continents in a week must have a strong urge.
On August 15 2012 20:30 legaton wrote: Damn, Kespa players have become so good in so little time, i'm eager to see them compete in foreign tournaments
Please, leave foreign tournaments to foreigners...
Something tells me that KeSPa players wont travel as much. And if the GOM players want to stay ahead then they need to stop travelling as well. Which means there is a chance we wont be seeing as many Koreans in foreign tournaments anymore
Seeing as IEM > WCS to MVP and MC, I doubt this will be the case.
pl > all
Considering the partnership between Kespa and MLG, there's bound to be travelling to at least MLG events.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
I'd say they are all under way more pressure, not just the 2nd tier ones. Also.. these LR threads disgust me nowadays. I think I'll have to avoid them and just post in IEM etc -_- So much trolling/baiting/ignorance.
Don't forget excuses for losing. A lot of that too.
feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
[QUOTE]On August 15 2012 20:37 orbs wrote: [QUOTE]On August 15 2012 20:32 Scarecrow wrote: [QUOTE]On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves[/QUOTE] Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad[/QUOTE]
This.
Maybe it was the case afterall... that the SC2 competition people were watching thus far was all a farce. Real competition has yet to begin.[/
Time will tell. As much as I want the Kespa players to catch up with the best of the GSL, I still give props to the best GSL players. I'm sure they've worked as hard as anybody.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
DRG losing against GSL players because of mechanics doesn't seem likely. But these are the A-Team BW pros. Their mechanics are the same, if not better than DRG and Mvp (before his wrists kept on getting to him).
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
Indeed, game 3 was pretty much pure micro that both did excellently but effort did it better.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
effort is also clever as fuck, fast learner and all lol. Can't beat someone just by having better mechanics
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
This is relatable... I've a friend (didn't follow the BW scene) who's a hardcore DRG fan in denial of the loss. Just puts a wide grin on my face. It's Effort baby.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
Absolutely, and even with effort having better mechanics (not sure i agree with), the amount of game sense and knowledge that drg has relative to effort should be more then enough of a difference that mechanics can overcome.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
This is relatable... I've a friend (didn't follow the BW scene) who's a hardcore DRG fan in denial of the loss. Just puts a wide grin on my face. It's Effort baby.
yeah just take a look at the last few pages in the DRG fanclub haha
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
until you realize that effort has some of the best mechanics of any player, all-time
effort is also clever as fuck, fast learner and all lol. Can't beat someone just by having better mechanics
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
you do realize the top kespa players most likely have better mechanics or equal to DRG right? It is practically a requirement to stay near the top in BW
"zerg graveyard" haha Come on Khaldor even thought it's no 4th favored map zerg is still favored ♥! some stats on KR since queen patch 49%! haha ;D yeah 1% zerg favored xD
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
Yeah, it seemed that whenever anyone played Savior they just made lots and lots (and lots) of stupid mistakes. And then you look at the game more in depth, and you realised he caused the player to make those mistakes. Although Effort has a lot less finesse, he still learned a lot of tactics and playstyles from Savior.
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
you do realize the top kespa players most likely have better mechanics or equal to DRG right? It is practically a requirement to stay near the top in BW
I completely agree, but I disagree that drg lost simply to being mechanically outclassed.
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
Until effort starts dropping drg like mma does, then I respectfully disagree.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
you do realize the top kespa players most likely have better mechanics or equal to DRG right? It is practically a requirement to stay near the top in BW
I completely agree, but I disagree that drg lost simply to being mechanically outclassed.
On August 15 2012 20:52 M2 wrote: Aren't MVP, Nestea and MC actually a part of the Elephant? Especially MVP who was a young and promising BW terran. They just came earlier.
mc and nestea were nothing compared to mvp who was the only A team player switching early.
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
Until effort starts dropping drg like mma does, then I respectfully disagree.
Because zerg drops are obviously as good and often used as terran ones right?
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
Until effort starts dropping drg like mma does, then I respectfully disagree.
I think it's quite hard to argue against that Effort really did outclass DRG in game three. Game one and two might have other factors as well, but game three was almost pure mechanics. And it's not like DRG didn't put up a good fight, he did, but Effort was simply better.
On August 15 2012 20:52 M2 wrote: Aren't MVP, Nestea and MC actually a part of the Elephant? Especially MVP who was a young and promising BW terran. They just came earlier.
mc and nestea were nothing compared to mvp who was the only A team player switching early.
I think Polt is the only "Elephant Hunter" in this tourney
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
Until effort starts dropping drg like mma does, then I respectfully disagree.
Because zerg drops are obviously as good and often used as terran ones right?
Because I don't think that drg was pushed to his multitasking limit in a 1v1 baneling war.
On August 15 2012 20:52 M2 wrote: Aren't MVP, Nestea and MC actually a part of the Elephant? Especially MVP who was a young and promising BW terran. They just came earlier.
mc and nestea were nothing compared to mvp who was the only A team player switching early.
what you are saying is not the point, still they are BW exes and they already dominated somehow
On August 15 2012 20:52 M2 wrote: Aren't MVP, Nestea and MC actually a part of the Elephant? Especially MVP who was a young and promising BW terran. They just came earlier.
Nestea is not part of the elephant. He never did well in 1v1 with an extremely lackluster record. And he did stay long in the BW scene, so arguably, he's past the elephant stage. I didn't even think ForGG fit the description. MC, I'm not sure, he had a terrible record but I recall he wasn't in the BW scene long. Maybe if he stayed longer, he would've developed into an A-Teamer. I dunno though.
Mvp is the only one who fits that description. And, well, he said himself, within a few months or less, he climbed to the top of the Korean ladder.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
you do realize the top kespa players most likely have better mechanics or equal to DRG right? It is practically a requirement to stay near the top in BW
Foreigners couldn't even compete with Koreans in BW.
Go download a replay pack of any SC2 tournament. Almost every korean has higher epm than the foreigners in the tournament, but since SC2 isn't as mechanically demanding as BW foreigners can win through other means like timings, build order wins, or winning a single battle. Still, the player with the higher epm wins more often-- nothing really to debate here go do the research yourself.
So yes, while it's not as severe as in BW, DRG can lose because of mechanics, and BW players (especially top ones), have superior mechanics than DRG and every other SC2 player just because the nature of the game from which they're coming.
Look at a player like Kas. 150ish epm-- same as many people in mid masters, and while he performs very well, there are many games he loses to Koreans in which he's simply out multitasked. (look at his recent game vs Miya. It was absolutely brutal and one of the most one sided series I've seen in my life.)
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
Until effort starts dropping drg like mma does, then I respectfully disagree.
Because zerg drops are obviously as good and often used as terran ones right?
Because I don't think that drg was pushed to his multitasking limit in a 1v1 baneling war.
So if you're hard-pressed microing while macroing, that isn't multitasking? Just because it isn't fancy doesn't mean it's not multitasking. The more DRG was pushed to micro, the more his macro slipped. Effort's macro did not skip a beat at all.
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
Well as the observer you can see what is forced and what not. yay for ceiling cat vision! Forcing mistakes from the opponent is something else then suddenly playing worse by yourself and can only be explained by factors you don't see. So the throwing of your opponent from his gameplan is excluded, that would be good play for me.
I usually lose myself if i can't shake of the i can't lose this game feeling. And it has nothing to do with my opponent. And yes in a professional sport you usually are better at not losing concentration, but certain conditions can trigger that too.
On August 15 2012 20:41 FeyFey wrote: feels like you see foreigners fighting koreans and suddenly play 3 levels worse. I guess it is the mix of pressure, unknown opponents style(while they have an easier time studying you) and other thing and kespa players being of course good too. I mean the kespa players really talked themself into this, we are worse we got nothing to lose kind of thing.
I think one reason why sometimes it seems like the other player is playing bad is because the winning player forces situations that are tricky. If the other player lets you play your game, then of course you will look good, but if the other player does not let you, then chances are that your play will look worse.
I think so too. I thought DRG played well, maybe not as best he could, but still playing against multitasking like Effort, DRG was plainly pushed to the limit.
Until effort starts dropping drg like mma does, then I respectfully disagree.
Because zerg drops are obviously as good and often used as terran ones right?
Because I don't think that drg was pushed to his multitasking limit in a 1v1 baneling war.
So if you're hard-pressed microing while macroing, that isn't multitasking? Just because it isn't fancy doesn't mean it's not multitasking. The more DRG was pushed to micro, the more his macro slipped. Effort's macro did not skip a beat at all.
I think the argument is the degree of effort (pun lol) rather than whether or not it was 'demanding'. It was definitely demanding; is ling/bling micro and injecting a single hatchery more difficult than defending simultaneous drops while trying to inject three or four hatcheries? That's subjective.
Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking.
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better.
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking.
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better.
also, he never spotted the nydus. normally, i wouldnt expect him to miss that kind of thing.
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking.
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better.
also, he never spotted the nydus. normally, i wouldnt expect him to miss that kind of thing.
Another indication that DRG had to pour more attention to the battle at the FRONT instead of being on top of everything like he was against other opponents.
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking.
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better.
Edit: at least for that game.
Well, players are people and people are different. It could very well be that Effort is superior at that scenario but he's not as good at defending aforementioned drops. ZvZ is also really weird in that every single unit is a huge decision - is this larva better as a drone or a zergling? Should I rebuild my queen now? Should I build Zerglings? Obviously, Effort won as the players descended the logic tree, but I don't think it's likely that DRG would 'forget' to rebuild a single queen.
Then again, it's all conjecture because we can't know what's in the players' minds.
On August 15 2012 20:30 Dundron2000 wrote: Maybe its just super intimidating for 2nd tier Gom players to meet Kespa people.. it has to be mostly nerves
Or just players with superior mechanics making them look bad
its not a mechanical game in the way BW is so no i dont think it can be chalked down to that. shaky decision-making and hesitation in critical moments has been a recurrent theme
drg losing because of mechanics frankly doesn't seem likely.
you do realize the top kespa players most likely have better mechanics or equal to DRG right? It is practically a requirement to stay near the top in BW
Foreigners couldn't even compete with Koreans in BW.
Go download a replay pack of any SC2 tournament. Almost every korean has higher epm than the foreigners in the tournament, but since SC2 isn't as mechanically demanding as BW foreigners can win through other means like timings, build order wins, or winning a single battle. Still, the player with the higher epm wins more often-- nothing really to debate here go do the research yourself.
So yes, while it's not as severe as in BW, DRG can lose because of mechanics, and BW players (especially top ones), have superior mechanics than DRG and every other SC2 player just because the nature of the game from which they're coming.
Look at a player like Kas. 150ish epm-- same as many people in mid masters, and while he performs very well, there are many games he loses to Koreans in which he's simply out multitasked. (look at his recent game vs Miya. It was absolutely brutal and one of the most one sided series I've seen in my life.)
I don't remember too many bw players having a greater eapm than drg did. I remember most of them (from the occasional leaked replay/wcg) having 170-200ish which is less then people like drg and losira. I suppose that eapm doesn't translate directly into mechanics, but it is certainly and indicator.
On August 15 2012 20:26 8mmspikes wrote: well...7 KeSPA players entered the tournament, 7 KeSPA players are still alive...well played by all! Nice to see new competition!
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking.
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better.
also, he never spotted the nydus. normally, i wouldnt expect him to miss that kind of thing.
He made a heap of mistakes he normally wouldn't make. When he killed efforts queens, that should have been a moment he expanded/droned/whatever, instead he kept trading.
On August 15 2012 21:01 silent_owl wrote: Gumiho and MMA style drops are fancy manifestations of multi-tasking but macroing properly while harassing EFFECTIVELY is also a more basic form of multi-tasking.
So, if DRG slipped up with things like not rebuilding his queen while microing a ling-bane battle against Effort who made no such mistakes on his FUNDAMENTALS then that definitely means Effort is mechanically better.
Edit: at least for that game.
Well, players are people and people are different. It could very well be that Effort is superior at that scenario but he's not as good at defending aforementioned drops. ZvZ is also really weird in that every single unit is a huge decision - is this larva better as a drone or a zergling? Should I rebuild my queen now? Should I build Zerglings? Obviously, Effort won as the players descended the logic tree, but I don't think it's likely that DRG would 'forget' to rebuild a single queen.
Then again, it's all conjecture because we can't know what's in the players' minds.
That is a fair assumption but with his 70% ZvZ winrate and the thousands of games DRG has practiced, I don't think he just "forgot". And if he did, that probably came from the fact that he had to concentrate more on the battle upfront.
But that is a fair point you make. Mechanics are, after all, somewhat related to decision-making as well in terms of handling fights and scenarios. Not taking away from DRG. He is a great player and I know he can bounce back from this series of losses. I just also want to give props to Effort because he displayed such sick micro while staying on top of his macro. It may not be pretty but it's fundamentally sound.
I can't watch and the OP isn't updating so I tried to look through the thread but the last 10 pages is people arguing about why DRG didn't see the nydus. DRG isn't playing!!
Elephant shall dominate. Everyday regular practice for many hours, years of experience and far greater mental strength, who could have wished for more? SC2 fans prepare to greet new heroes.
On August 15 2012 21:11 Vorenius wrote: Would someone talk about the damn games?!
I can't watch and the OP isn't updating so I tried to look through the thread but the last 10 pages is people arguing about why DRG didn't see the nydus. DRG isn't playing!!
You people suck at posting in LR threads =(
Damn true, no freaking LR, no explanations, just useless ramblings over this and that. I miss old BW LR casters..
I imagine there are going to be lots of pep talks and soul-searching at the various team houses tonight. After seeing the players absolutely and completely fall apart on stage, the players coming up tomorrow are going to know they have to try and inoculate themselves against such pressure.
Makes me think: how good are tomorrow's GOM players under pressure? How good are they mentally? Moreover, are we going to see something that isn't an enormous Zerg collapse? Only time will tell, next week on Dragoncraft 2 Z~
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
Jaedong has both had very good and very bad ZvP's in PL so far, I've got a bit of faith in him to beat Genius, I really hope that he will and not fall to early timing attacks which are usually his downfall.
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
The only way I can see someone else winning is if a protoss wins and stephano takes him down.
nvm asia finals :p that said I think its likely to extend to the grand finals.
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
I'm hoping for several kespa players to get top 10 though to get through to the Asia Final
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
I'm hoping for several kespa players to get top 10 though to get through to the Asia Final
At this rate of improvement, and the way gom players are playing against kespa players, I could see many kespa players in the top 10. Especially since some players appear to be better then a large amount of code a players, at least in certain match ups.
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
I'm hoping for several kespa players to get top 10 though to get through to the Asia Final
At this rate of improvement, and the way gom players are playing against kespa players, I could see many kespa players in the top 10. Especially since some players appear to be better then a large amount of code a players, at least in certain match ups.
JD against Genius is going to be real interesting though. Genius is Alive level I think. I believe in JD. He can pull it out.
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
I'm hoping for several kespa players to get top 10 though to get through to the Asia Final
At this rate of improvement, and the way gom players are playing against kespa players, I could see many kespa players in the top 10. Especially since some players appear to be better then a large amount of code a players, at least in certain match ups.
JD against Genius is going to be real interesting though. Genius is Alive level I think. I believe in JD. He can pull it out.
If jaedong can pull off an aggressive style then I think he will win, and tbh i feel that alive's style of play was better against jaedong then genius's will be.
JD's bracket is very difficult... Genius, Leenock/By.Sun, Curious/Parting. I think that would be the minimum amount of wins to reach the top 12, then he would have to qualify in the 9th-12th consolation tournament and get a spot in the Asia Final.
On August 15 2012 21:49 Looms wrote: JD's bracket is very difficult... Genius, Leenock/By.Sun, Curious/Parting. I think that would be the minimum amount of wins to reach the top 12, then he would have to qualify in the 9th-12th consolation tournament and get a spot in the Asia Final.
I honestly think jaedong will beat genius, and if leenock hasn't stopped playing like he wants to lose then he can definitely win the next couple of rounds.
On August 15 2012 21:21 X3GoldDot wrote: also theres something wrong with gsl zergs, even b4 is suddenly slumping all of a sudden, except for curious.
Is...is Curious the next zerg bonjwa? *Shakes a magic 8 ball* "Signs are unclear, try again" =S
Curious is possibly the most solid zerg in GSL. I can't imagine him ever having an interview where he says "Oh I was so nervous I could hardly play". I dont know if it's only persona, but Curious looks like the least shakeable player around. I mean, people never really rate him but almost every time I glance at the TLPD there he is. Somewhere in the top 5. Watching me.
On August 15 2012 21:21 X3GoldDot wrote: also theres something wrong with gsl zergs, even b4 is suddenly slumping all of a sudden, except for curious.
Is...is Curious the next zerg bonjwa? *Shakes a magic 8 ball* "Signs are unclear, try again" =S
Curious is possibly the most solid zerg in GSL. I can't imagine him ever having an interview where he says "Oh I was so nervous I could hardly play". I dont know if it's only persona, but Curious looks like the least shakeable player around. I mean, people never really rate him but almost every time I glance at the TLPD there he is. Somewhere in the top 5. Watching me.
Curious is one of the most solid and stable zerg. He really played textbook ZvT,ZvP to the best. He may be boring but he is one of the solid zergs out there.
On August 15 2012 21:18 Looms wrote: lol so many tests upcoming for the kespa players.
tails vs hero[join], gumiho vs effort, genius vs jaedong, hero vs by.sun, and hero vs soulkey
Will see some KeSPA players knocked out of WCS now methinks
It's kind of funny and awesome how not a single one of them dropped out in the first round though
It is very impressive. and I hope jaedong can get all the zvp knowledge possible out of stephano in order to destroy genius :D
yeah, this is obviously the story of the tournament so far. NONE of them getting "0-2, 0-2'ed" out of the tournament. it's so ridiculous to think that only ONE of the players in this tournament will be guaranteed a spot in the WCS Grand Final, even though we all know Korea will dominate the WCS Asia Final, ezpz, as MC would say.
I'm hoping for several kespa players to get top 10 though to get through to the Asia Final
At this rate of improvement, and the way gom players are playing against kespa players, I could see many kespa players in the top 10. Especially since some players appear to be better then a large amount of code a players, at least in certain match ups.
Unfortunately, only a max of 4 players from the LB can make it. I think Kespa will likely get 1 from LB + Roro in the top 10.
TBH, even as a BW fan, it seemed like the GSL players were just playing stupid and not so much incredible decisionmaking/control from the Kespa people, unless thats how they normally play.
On August 15 2012 20:10 raga4ka wrote: WTF is SoulKey doing ? Bad ZvZ from BW does indead carry over to SC2 ? He has many overseers doesn't see a counter attack coming .
o.O
Soulkey is a very good ZvZer in BW, which also happens to be supported by his 60% WR in the matchup.
On August 16 2012 02:39 ZeaL. wrote: TBH, even as a BW fan, it seemed like the GSL players were just playing stupid and not so much incredible decisionmaking/control from the Kespa people, unless thats how they normally play.
That was some decision making straight out of beta from the GSL players.
I don't really think it's fair for either Coca or Soulkey to say that Coca is struggling right now. Coca did manage to obtain most wins in the GSTL. And he did qualify for WCS. He lost against Seed in WCS, which is rather understandable. You know, with Seed being GSL Champ and stuff. Saying that Coca has been doing poorly is not only wrong, but it also takes away from Soulkey's accomplishment of beating a pretty good Zerg player.
On August 16 2012 04:30 Dakure wrote: I don't really think it's fair for either Coca or Soulkey to say that Coca is struggling right now. Coca did manage to obtain most wins in the GSTL. And he did qualify for WCS. He lost against Seed in WCS, which is rather understandable. You know, with Seed being GSL Champ and stuff. Saying that Coca has been doing poorly is not only wrong, but it also takes away from Soulkey's accomplishment of beating a pretty good Zerg player.
I completely agree, what we saw today from Coca was absolutely indicative of his usual super strong play and decision making.
On August 15 2012 20:10 raga4ka wrote: WTF is SoulKey doing ? Bad ZvZ from BW does indead carry over to SC2 ? He has many overseers doesn't see a counter attack coming .
o.O
Soulkey is a very good ZvZer in BW, which also happens to be supported by his 60% WR in the matchup.
Meh i've watched most of his games . I guess his ZvZ isn't really bad , but it never impressed me . Compared to the top ZvZers like Jaedong , Effort , Luxury and even Hydra back when they were on top , his ZvZ in comparison left me with an unimpressed memory .
i remember some guys here said "lol kespa guys wanna try code a ? haha they so bad" and now 5 kespa vs gom 5 times kespa won ? looserbracket looks ... strange ?
He might not be trolling since his join date is after the article was published.
He is a KT Rolster fan though. Flash is the biggest elephant of them all..
Well when I joined TL the first thing I did was put a KT Logo in my signature. KT is like 90s Bulls, and Flash is Micheal Jordan. Bandwagon FTW!
In that case Flash in SCII is like Micheal Jordan switching to baseball..
More like Flash in SC2 is like Michael Jordan playing in the NCAA
results say otherwise
Most of the ganes he's lost have been to good players in SC2 (Effort x2, Roro, Last, Shy) and the losses were while he was still preparing for the BW OSL. Plus, keep in mind he went 6-0 in MLG, and since the OSL ended, he's gone 3-0 in the ODT/PL.
He might not be trolling since his join date is after the article was published.
He is a KT Rolster fan though. Flash is the biggest elephant of them all..
Well when I joined TL the first thing I did was put a KT Logo in my signature. KT is like 90s Bulls, and Flash is Micheal Jordan. Bandwagon FTW!
In that case Flash in SCII is like Micheal Jordan switching to baseball..
More like Flash in SC2 is like Michael Jordan playing in the NCAA
results say otherwise
Most of the ganes he's lost have been to good players in SC2 (Effort x2, Roro, Last, Shy) and the losses were while he was still preparing for the BW OSL. Plus, keep in mind he went 6-0 in MLG, and since the OSL ended, he's gone 3-0 in the ODT/PL.
he'll get there. it will take a little while is all. hope he finds his style.
Just finished watching some vods. I realized when the popular Kespa players were being announced (Jaedong, Effort, etc.), their rabid fangirls joined them. Just goes to show fans follow the players, not the game. SC2 has a bright future indeed.
On August 16 2012 11:57 kakaman wrote: Just finished watching some vods. I realized when the popular Kespa players were being announced (Jaedong, Effort, etc.), their rabid fangirls joined them. Just goes to show fans follow the players, not the game. SC2 has a bright future indeed.
Can you only find vods if you have GOM Subscription for WCS?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X5LOP.jpg)
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Casters: Wolf & Khaldor![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/ea/Gomtv_ico.jpg)
GOMTV | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
twitch.tv 480p | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/d/da/Own3D_ico.png)
own3d.tv | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/0/0c/Vlc_ico.png)
GOMstreamer![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2318.jpg)
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horror vs. 
By.Sun![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2244.jpg)
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dreamertt vs. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cbVOl.png)
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, even if ur a KT fan and even if u dont have girl problems, i like G.na but not this mv, especially after Juniel its like crying than having a boner...very weird
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