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Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
August 10 2012 23:58 GMT
#1301
On August 11 2012 08:31 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 07:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. All I said was I was really excited for SC2, got disappointed by the play, now Kespa players are here, I'm excited again for the future. I hope Kespa players dominate and elevate the game to their skill level. Somehow that's instigate and piss ppl off and flame etc etc.

Also, I take it you weren't here for the Rekrul/Mani/Chill era of TL.


So... you don't consider collectively calling all the gom players "chobos" to be instigating?


No, I don't. Did you think a game would reach a maturation of skill in the first 2 years? When there are 2 more expos planned? I think it's more the SC2 scene that has an arrogant attitude thinking a scene that just started should have a skill level ready to take on a scene that's been developing for 13 years. SC2 is a different game, but only in the sense that it's easier than its father.


Haha, you are so mindnumbingly condescending.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 11 2012 00:02 GMT
#1302
On August 11 2012 08:52 Djin)ftw( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 08:33 mrtomjones wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:28 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. All I said was I was really excited for SC2, got disappointed by the play, now Kespa players are here, I'm excited again for the future. I hope Kespa players dominate and elevate the game to their skill level. Somehow that's instigate and piss ppl off and flame etc etc.

Also, I take it you weren't here for the Rekrul/Mani/Chill era of TL.


So... you don't consider collectively calling all the gom players "chobos" to be instigating?



yeah well, compared to the rest of the A teamers (like roro, who btw was only mediocre) only MVP was kinda in the same league. Ofc that doesnt mean that it has to be the same way in SC2, on the other hand you have to ask yourself why suddenly ppl like iron[kal] (MC), Clare[Shield] (MKP) or Dream.t)SaiR (supernova) are considered good.

Of course it could be that they evolved as players.
interview sair
"On TV I get nervous a lot and sometimes make mistake I would never do"

Maybe he left that behind. Than again, he never won a major tournament did he? That MVP dominated, who is clearly the best BW player from the GOM players isnt surpising. What IS surprising is that ppl like nestea, MC etc win so much.

Personally, I think the next months are incredibly exciting. I want to see who of the BW players fails at SC2 and who doesnt.

I think it is because of the differences in the games. Someone like Nestea who doesnt seem to have the biggest APM doesnt have to worry about things like worker rally and such. MC seemed to have confidence issues and that is seemingly gone I think that perhaps having pure APM is simply less beneficial in SC2 than it was in BW too


Maybe, who knows. Maybe they just make better decisions now. Or have better understanding of timings and engagements. Or maybe the competition wasnt just as good as it was in BW. Time will tell.


One thing I know for sure is that Foreigners just decreased their chance to excel in SC2 by half. Its like S.Koreans just increased their roster twofold.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
August 11 2012 00:03 GMT
#1303
How does condescension induce numbness in the mind?
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 00:37:56
August 11 2012 00:27 GMT
#1304
On August 11 2012 08:52 Djin)ftw( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 08:33 mrtomjones wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:28 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. All I said was I was really excited for SC2, got disappointed by the play, now Kespa players are here, I'm excited again for the future. I hope Kespa players dominate and elevate the game to their skill level. Somehow that's instigate and piss ppl off and flame etc etc.

Also, I take it you weren't here for the Rekrul/Mani/Chill era of TL.


So... you don't consider collectively calling all the gom players "chobos" to be instigating?



yeah well, compared to the rest of the A teamers (like roro, who btw was only mediocre) only MVP was kinda in the same league. Ofc that doesnt mean that it has to be the same way in SC2, on the other hand you have to ask yourself why suddenly ppl like iron[kal] (MC), Clare[Shield] (MKP) or Dream.t)SaiR (supernova) are considered good.

Of course it could be that they evolved as players.
interview sair
"On TV I get nervous a lot and sometimes make mistake I would never do"

Maybe he left that behind. Than again, he never won a major tournament did he? That MVP dominated, who is clearly the best BW player from the GOM players isnt surpising. What IS surprising is that ppl like nestea, MC etc win so much.

Personally, I think the next months are incredibly exciting. I want to see who of the BW players fails at SC2 and who doesnt.

I think it is because of the differences in the games. Someone like Nestea who doesnt seem to have the biggest APM doesnt have to worry about things like worker rally and such. MC seemed to have confidence issues and that is seemingly gone I think that perhaps having pure APM is simply less beneficial in SC2 than it was in BW too


Maybe, who knows. Maybe they just make better decisions now. Or have better understanding of timings and engagements. Or maybe the competition wasnt just as good as it was in BW. Time will tell.

The answer is probably all of those or none.

Desire to fullfill dreams that were almost unachievable in previous competition. That desire probably could make 30yo Nestea feel like 20yo again.

Desire afterall is important part of our lives and it applies to competition. Being the one guiding and not the one being guided.

If we think about it, they built SC2 we now know, and Flash and Jaedong play their game in a sense. Now im curious if proverbial Flash and Jaedong will be capable of shattering fundamentals Nestea and co. built just like Boxer and co. shattered Grrr....'s and 1st generation of foreigners.

And those will be interesting times, and blizzards limitation that were given to SC2 will be actually fully tested. If those fundaments won't budge i will be as they say "dissapoint".
Stork[gm]
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
August 11 2012 01:29 GMT
#1305
Roro was not an average zerg, he's definitely way above average. Average is someone shitty like Saint or s2

For those of you who don't know, Roro was known amongst the Korean community as the Zerg S class reader (I believe Kal was the Protoss one and idk the Terran one ..) ... if you can beat him, you could be S class. If not, you're still A class.
Writerptrk
lannisport
Profile Joined February 2012
878 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 01:37:27
August 11 2012 01:31 GMT
#1306
On August 10 2012 22:54 Holgerius wrote:
It's pretty stupid to talk about the elephant until they actually make a full switch. Kespa players are currently playing two games professionally, it's not a fair playing field yet.


Why can't people just enjoy the games for what they are? Besides, the elephants are so darn adorable right now:

[image loading]
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 11 2012 02:00 GMT
#1307
On August 11 2012 10:29 ArvickHero wrote:
Roro was not an average zerg, he's definitely way above average. Average is someone shitty like Saint or s2

For those of you who don't know, Roro was known amongst the Korean community as the Zerg S class reader (I believe Kal was the Protoss one and idk the Terran one ..) ... if you can beat him, you could be S class. If not, you're still A class.


LETA!
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
August 11 2012 04:23 GMT
#1308
On August 11 2012 09:02 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 08:52 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:33 mrtomjones wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:28 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. All I said was I was really excited for SC2, got disappointed by the play, now Kespa players are here, I'm excited again for the future. I hope Kespa players dominate and elevate the game to their skill level. Somehow that's instigate and piss ppl off and flame etc etc.

Also, I take it you weren't here for the Rekrul/Mani/Chill era of TL.


So... you don't consider collectively calling all the gom players "chobos" to be instigating?



yeah well, compared to the rest of the A teamers (like roro, who btw was only mediocre) only MVP was kinda in the same league. Ofc that doesnt mean that it has to be the same way in SC2, on the other hand you have to ask yourself why suddenly ppl like iron[kal] (MC), Clare[Shield] (MKP) or Dream.t)SaiR (supernova) are considered good.

Of course it could be that they evolved as players.
interview sair
"On TV I get nervous a lot and sometimes make mistake I would never do"

Maybe he left that behind. Than again, he never won a major tournament did he? That MVP dominated, who is clearly the best BW player from the GOM players isnt surpising. What IS surprising is that ppl like nestea, MC etc win so much.

Personally, I think the next months are incredibly exciting. I want to see who of the BW players fails at SC2 and who doesnt.

I think it is because of the differences in the games. Someone like Nestea who doesnt seem to have the biggest APM doesnt have to worry about things like worker rally and such. MC seemed to have confidence issues and that is seemingly gone I think that perhaps having pure APM is simply less beneficial in SC2 than it was in BW too


Maybe, who knows. Maybe they just make better decisions now. Or have better understanding of timings and engagements. Or maybe the competition wasnt just as good as it was in BW. Time will tell.


One thing I know for sure is that Foreigners just decreased their chance to excel in SC2 by half. Its like S.Koreans just increased their roster twofold.


This is true. People complain about foreign tourneys being dominated too much by Koreans, well, it's about to get a lot worse.
STX Fighting!
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
August 11 2012 04:46 GMT
#1309
On August 11 2012 13:23 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 09:02 Xiphos wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:52 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:33 mrtomjones wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:28 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. All I said was I was really excited for SC2, got disappointed by the play, now Kespa players are here, I'm excited again for the future. I hope Kespa players dominate and elevate the game to their skill level. Somehow that's instigate and piss ppl off and flame etc etc.

Also, I take it you weren't here for the Rekrul/Mani/Chill era of TL.


So... you don't consider collectively calling all the gom players "chobos" to be instigating?



yeah well, compared to the rest of the A teamers (like roro, who btw was only mediocre) only MVP was kinda in the same league. Ofc that doesnt mean that it has to be the same way in SC2, on the other hand you have to ask yourself why suddenly ppl like iron[kal] (MC), Clare[Shield] (MKP) or Dream.t)SaiR (supernova) are considered good.

Of course it could be that they evolved as players.
interview sair
"On TV I get nervous a lot and sometimes make mistake I would never do"

Maybe he left that behind. Than again, he never won a major tournament did he? That MVP dominated, who is clearly the best BW player from the GOM players isnt surpising. What IS surprising is that ppl like nestea, MC etc win so much.

Personally, I think the next months are incredibly exciting. I want to see who of the BW players fails at SC2 and who doesnt.

I think it is because of the differences in the games. Someone like Nestea who doesnt seem to have the biggest APM doesnt have to worry about things like worker rally and such. MC seemed to have confidence issues and that is seemingly gone I think that perhaps having pure APM is simply less beneficial in SC2 than it was in BW too


Maybe, who knows. Maybe they just make better decisions now. Or have better understanding of timings and engagements. Or maybe the competition wasnt just as good as it was in BW. Time will tell.


One thing I know for sure is that Foreigners just decreased their chance to excel in SC2 by half. Its like S.Koreans just increased their roster twofold.


This is true. People complain about foreign tourneys being dominated too much by Koreans, well, it's about to get a lot worse.

not sure if kespa players will be playing very much in them though, save maybe for mlg?
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
August 11 2012 04:47 GMT
#1310
On August 11 2012 13:23 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 09:02 Xiphos wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:52 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:33 mrtomjones wrote:
On August 11 2012 08:28 Djin)ftw( wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:17 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 11 2012 07:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. All I said was I was really excited for SC2, got disappointed by the play, now Kespa players are here, I'm excited again for the future. I hope Kespa players dominate and elevate the game to their skill level. Somehow that's instigate and piss ppl off and flame etc etc.

Also, I take it you weren't here for the Rekrul/Mani/Chill era of TL.


So... you don't consider collectively calling all the gom players "chobos" to be instigating?



yeah well, compared to the rest of the A teamers (like roro, who btw was only mediocre) only MVP was kinda in the same league. Ofc that doesnt mean that it has to be the same way in SC2, on the other hand you have to ask yourself why suddenly ppl like iron[kal] (MC), Clare[Shield] (MKP) or Dream.t)SaiR (supernova) are considered good.

Of course it could be that they evolved as players.
interview sair
"On TV I get nervous a lot and sometimes make mistake I would never do"

Maybe he left that behind. Than again, he never won a major tournament did he? That MVP dominated, who is clearly the best BW player from the GOM players isnt surpising. What IS surprising is that ppl like nestea, MC etc win so much.

Personally, I think the next months are incredibly exciting. I want to see who of the BW players fails at SC2 and who doesnt.

I think it is because of the differences in the games. Someone like Nestea who doesnt seem to have the biggest APM doesnt have to worry about things like worker rally and such. MC seemed to have confidence issues and that is seemingly gone I think that perhaps having pure APM is simply less beneficial in SC2 than it was in BW too


Maybe, who knows. Maybe they just make better decisions now. Or have better understanding of timings and engagements. Or maybe the competition wasnt just as good as it was in BW. Time will tell.


One thing I know for sure is that Foreigners just decreased their chance to excel in SC2 by half. Its like S.Koreans just increased their roster twofold.


This is true. People complain about foreign tourneys being dominated too much by Koreans, well, it's about to get a lot worse.


Well typically in most tournaments, with the exception of Open Brackets, Koreans usually get through using the set number of qualifiers or seeds. There being more koreans doesn't make for less foreigners. And nothing is yet to indicate the Korean 'wall' has increased.

I don't see Foreigners having decreased their chance to excel in sc2 at all. At the end of the day skill is what will matter, not % of representation. If foreigners get shafted from the top it's not because more top players appeared, but they weren't able to keep up with the continual improvement in the game.

So uhh, foreigners are already largely dominated by Koreans. The level of domination will only really change if some super elites appear. No-one in sc2 history has been at that level of infallibility. It doesn't yet exist.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
August 11 2012 05:23 GMT
#1311
In SC culture, super elites are called bonjwas. No bonjwa yet, unless MC or MVP count. Also, the level of domination in SC2 by koreans is nowhere near the level it was in BW. In BW, foreigner pros were so far below, the korean pros said it felt like they were playing the AI. And that's what BW fans are trying to say. The "super-elites" have finally arrived.
Ace1123
Profile Joined September 2011
Philippines1187 Posts
August 11 2012 05:31 GMT
#1312
Parting, Roro, Puzzle <3 <3 GLGL!
ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR,
hasubock
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany24 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 20:45:24
August 11 2012 20:42 GMT
#1313
does anyone know the titles of the between games music?

edit: i am aware, that there is a GSL Music Thread, but i am searching for a specific title whoch i heard on wcs stream.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
August 12 2012 04:30 GMT
#1314
lol StorkHwaiting is banned now o.O
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
August 13 2012 02:43 GMT
#1315
Does anyone know what the music is for the Daybreak intro that Wolf and Khaldor keep talking about? It's utterly some of the worst noise my ears have ever heard. I loathe it with a passion. I have to mute my damn speakers before that intro.

Can't believe they like it, ughhhhh
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
August 13 2012 02:47 GMT
#1316
On August 12 2012 13:30 opterown wrote:
lol StorkHwaiting is banned now o.O


And nothing of value was lost.
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
August 13 2012 11:54 GMT
#1317
rorolled
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Thurken
Profile Joined September 2011
961 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-13 12:41:41
August 13 2012 12:40 GMT
#1318
On August 11 2012 05:08 WickedBit wrote:
Having new players in SC2 playing good games is always a good thing for the game.

It is a bit more complicated than that.
If the elephant theory is true in the end (kespa pro crushing gom players), despite being wrong on the timing (more than a few month), sc2 for foreigners doesn't look good. I like sc2 as an esport game because I really enjoy the game but also because it is a worldwide competition. Of course koreans are better now but top foreigners have a say. If the level of play is a lot higher but only top korean can achieve this, the vods will be nice but the competition will be a lot more boring to me and many others. There also will be no competition outside of korea meaning the end of growth in america and europe... A bit like in the BW era. (not as much because a lot of korean have switched to moba or other games and because foreigners have hope to hold on to)

What is more likely and a better outcome for foreigners is that kespa pro become as good as Gom players but don't crush everyone.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
August 13 2012 16:51 GMT
#1319
On August 13 2012 21:40 Thurken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 05:08 WickedBit wrote:
Having new players in SC2 playing good games is always a good thing for the game.

It is a bit more complicated than that.
If the elephant theory is true in the end (kespa pro crushing gom players), despite being wrong on the timing (more than a few month), sc2 for foreigners doesn't look good. I like sc2 as an esport game because I really enjoy the game but also because it is a worldwide competition. Of course koreans are better now but top foreigners have a say. If the level of play is a lot higher but only top korean can achieve this, the vods will be nice but the competition will be a lot more boring to me and many others. There also will be no competition outside of korea meaning the end of growth in america and europe... A bit like in the BW era. (not as much because a lot of korean have switched to moba or other games and because foreigners have hope to hold on to)

What is more likely and a better outcome for foreigners is that kespa pro become as good as Gom players but don't crush everyone.


The best outcome for foreigners is that they improve drastically. Lower overall skill possible in a spectator game for the sake of worldwide acceptance is a kick in the groin to those who actually sacrifice for their dream (of being a progamer). I know non-Koreans have a tougher time getting as good as Koreans due to the lack of practice partners, but at least the Korean server is accessible and playable (and you have certain individuals like Naniwa, Stephano, European Protsses, being able to slay really good Koreans from time to time).
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
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2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
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