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[WCS KR] WR2 D1 - Page 64

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-10 15:38:12
August 10 2012 15:34 GMT
#1261
On August 11 2012 00:21 FakeDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 00:12 CosmicSpiral wrote:
ZvZ always seems to be the bane of Leenock's existence.


Stats-wise,ZvZ is Leenock best match-up.


Mostly irrelevant since it is his least played matchup against the worst opponents. Leenock will die to the most random zerg opponents at inexplicable times.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Diizzy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States828 Posts
August 10 2012 15:37 GMT
#1262
still cant believe reality loss that third game....
Marshall_D
Profile Joined November 2008
United States196 Posts
August 10 2012 15:55 GMT
#1263
Ya pretty pissed that reality threw game 3 away. But nice one Roro!
Genovi
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden388 Posts
August 10 2012 16:02 GMT
#1264
Really good showing by both Kham players but goddammit go RoRo!!!! Im so psyched he made it through nice to see at least one kespa owning it up. For now :p
We fucking lost team - RTZ
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
August 10 2012 16:10 GMT
#1265
Damn Roro is blowing me away! Even thought Reality lost, he still played good.
I'm impressed with both players.
Go Parting! Win it all ^^
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
August 10 2012 16:12 GMT
#1266
I'm a little surprised at how far kespa players advanced already. They're not at the same level yet but I can definitely see them competing at a higher level in a few more months after they've fully transitioned over.
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
August 10 2012 16:12 GMT
#1267
I think they were lucky.
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
August 10 2012 16:14 GMT
#1268
ROROLLLLLLLLED
Writer
zeratul_jf
Profile Joined October 2011
United States808 Posts
August 10 2012 16:21 GMT
#1269
Im glad my lack of sleep was not in vain! Roro go win it all!
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
August 10 2012 16:24 GMT
#1270
Nooooooooo Leenock! D=! SADNESS!

Also good to hear that Reality looked like he could have taken Puzzle. Now we just got to see if he's an early riser or this game just gels better for him than lots of other people.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
August 10 2012 16:26 GMT
#1271
Nice to see a Kespa player doing well.
Tibbroar
Profile Joined June 2011
United States161 Posts
August 10 2012 16:34 GMT
#1272
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Until recently, the only BW pro to switch over still in/just reaching their prime was Mvp, and he's the most successful SC2 player to date. The article may trash him, but when he switched over he was really starting to click and was at the start of a major upswing in his career, had he stuck with BW he would certainly have been a threat to go deep in MSL/OSL. I don't actually care which side ends up winning this fight, I just want to see some damned good games, but holy hell some SC2 fans are so freakishly defensive about this crap it's pathetic.
I will always believe in the fallen king.
YMCApylons
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Taiwan359 Posts
August 10 2012 16:36 GMT
#1273
On August 10 2012 22:24 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2012 22:11 FabledIntegral wrote:
On August 10 2012 22:08 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On August 10 2012 22:05 bgx wrote:
On August 10 2012 22:03 FabledIntegral wrote:
On August 10 2012 21:42 mikedebo wrote:
On August 10 2012 21:42 FabledIntegral wrote:
Really cool seeing Roro perform well since I've watched him for so long in BW, but I honestly feel ZvZ is the least satisfying victory.


PvP?


Ok, I should have said for Zerg. You're completely right . TvT is fine though (although 1 base allins aren't anything special to me either).

Mirrors that go to the lategame can be another story, although PvP is pretty boring throughout (although I find it surprisingly tense to playmid-lategame due to DT drops, warp prism mass zealot warp ins, and the volatility of the battles and lack of information. That, and I've lost 3 PvPs super lategame because I had a single observer in a maxed mothership vs mothership battle T_T).

BoX ZvZ is one of a kind MU. Its true that not understanding it missing 80% of joy. I still have goosebumps left from Dimaga vs nestea... how we figured out Nestea terrifing build order that basically made Nestea a god in korean ZvZ. He figured out it in 2 days.


ZvZ is an incredibly skill based mu. At every point in the game, ZvZ is tense, exciting, and volatile. Banes are not just right click and watch shit blow up. Tons and tons of micro. There are a TON of different openings that can be used. A ton of transitions into mid-game. In mid-game there is fast infestor tech for defense/harass, muta tech for map control, roach busts. In late game shit goes absolutely bonkers with roach/hydra/infestor wars. I don't get how anyone can say it is a boring or luck-based matchup. Either total chobos or just clueless never played it before type kids.


It's highly skilled, but that doesn't mean it's highly volatile. And the volatility is what I was referring to. ZvZ is a game where a single misclick can lose you the game in an instant. While a better player will prevent that from happening more often, that doesn't mean in individually isolated circumstances the element of luck isn't more heavily present than other matchups. This compounding with the fact BO is one of the more significant factors out of any MU, that's how I gather such a conclusion.

ZvZ has also always been one of my better matchups, so it's not like I've given up on it or anything. When I was on top of my game I could beat any foreign pro out there that I encountered on ladder, with the exception of Slush, who I remember going like 0-8 vs.


Yeah but that's what I've always loved about ZvZ. It's a stressful as hell MU and a single misclick can lose you the game but arguably that's how all zerg games go. ZvP is probably the most forgiving micro-wise, but ZvT and ZvZ are both super fragile. If you engage at all wrong or misclick at a crucial moment you can lose EVERYTHING. Especially back in the day when metagame vs T was to go that heavy muta cloud and try to just dissect them with it before critical thor mass.

Also, I think at the least ZvZ in SC2 is less volatile than BW. BW was seriously coin-flippy BOs into muta-scourge wars all day.

I dno, I feel like the volatility and the intensity of the matchup just elevates it to an art-form. The better player will drop a game here and there, but in a BoX or over a few seasons, the better player will always emerge victorious. And for me, what I saw in tonight's games, Roro just plain outplayed Leenock. It wasn't like a crazy bane detonation on a drone drill or some queen bugging out while trying to block ramp. It was just straight up late-game brilliance by Roro.

Especially game 3. He cold-clocked Leenock. He did exactly the transition Leenock did to him in game 2, except way better. He dropped spines to protect his 3rd and 4th while trading, instead of just lazily sitting on 2k mineral bank like Leenock did. He kept his drone count in the 50s to get an edge in army supply, yet still always managed to squeeze out the units he needed. Constantly scouted with overseers and changelings to keep track of Leenock's army, and spread creep aggressively. He just used the typical BW level of mechanics with constant roaming armies, multi-prongs, and insane amounts of scouting. It's what I've been dying to see for so long in SC2 and NOT getting it from the GSL players. Thank god Kespa has arrived.



Preach it...Samsung KHAN is rumbling down the savannah...Ruh Roh, its Roro! Who managed to beat Bisu not so long ago.
You must construct additional pylons.
ABear
Profile Joined June 2006
United States161 Posts
August 10 2012 17:01 GMT
#1274
Everytime a kespa player wins, all I see is troll-bait on the TL forums. "It was his worst matchup after the patch", "It was all luck", "He hasn't been good for almost a year", "Kespa players aren't dominating (despite not having fully switched into a 2 year old game) -- clearly they won't succeed", or trollbait on the other side "MVP is the only good BW player to have switched so clearly all Kespa players will dominate". Honestly, the reddit forums are way better lately, and I say this as someone who usually dislikes reddit.

I agree w/ Trowa, you guys need to stop arguing about this shit so much.
ffrozenfish
Profile Joined May 2011
820 Posts
August 10 2012 17:14 GMT
#1275
nice try Reality tsk
Give us our snipe back - Ghost
Necro)Phagist(
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada6667 Posts
August 10 2012 17:25 GMT
#1276
On August 11 2012 02:01 ABear wrote:
Everytime a kespa player wins, all I see is troll-bait on the TL forums. "It was his worst matchup after the patch", "It was all luck", "He hasn't been good for almost a year", "Kespa players aren't dominating (despite not having fully switched into a 2 year old game) -- clearly they won't succeed", or trollbait on the other side "MVP is the only good BW player to have switched so clearly all Kespa players will dominate". Honestly, the reddit forums are way better lately, and I say this as someone who usually dislikes reddit.

I agree w/ Trowa, you guys need to stop arguing about this shit so much.

Your opinion just became worthless for this post. Even if you are right about people needing to shut the fuck up with pointless arguments that neither side can possibly win. You lost all credibility with that single sentence.

More on topic! Roro beat Leenock? Crazy shit, I'm surprised Reality took a game off Puzzle(He himself said he is a TvP Noob) and Go Parting! Since MC got knocked down your the toss I'm cheering for in the WR.
"Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN|
silent_owl
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines3098 Posts
August 10 2012 17:33 GMT
#1277
Roro beat Leenock. Wow.
"If you know your enemy and yourself, you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." - Sun Tzu
mikedebo
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4341 Posts
August 10 2012 17:57 GMT
#1278
On August 11 2012 01:14 ]343[ wrote:
ROROLLLLLLLLED


This expression needs to stay
I NEED A PHOTOSYNTHESIS! ||| 'airtoss' is an anagram of 'artosis' ||| SANGHOOOOOO ||| "No Korea? No problem. I have internet." -- Stardust
RezChi
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2368 Posts
August 10 2012 18:38 GMT
#1279
KHANNN
MetalPanda
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada1152 Posts
August 10 2012 19:05 GMT
#1280
Wow Roro, didn't expect THAT one!
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