• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:16
CET 19:16
KST 03:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC29[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery BW General Discussion Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League Bisu's Team vs Shuttle's Team 2026-11-14 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Simple Questions, Simple Answers Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11416 users

[WCS KR] WR1 D1 - Page 113

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 111 112 113 114 115 119 Next
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:36:32
August 06 2012 13:22 GMT
#2241
On August 06 2012 22:17 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:12 Grumbels wrote:
Current GSL players are roughly the same group as they were a year ago, the elephant theory always was that the competition was a farce not because of the level of play, but because of the people dominating. Clearly, the same people are dominating, so competition should still be a farce, by the elephant theory's standards. Nobody ever denied that among the KeSPA players there would be a lot of really strong players, I think people are just hesitant to say that given a year they will come to totally dominate the scene (not to mention the leap required to say that the competition was worthless before).

Squeegy is simply morphing the theory to suit his own needs, so he can keep it as a sort of boogeyman looming over the scene.


I suggest you read a book or two on formal logic. It'll teach how to analyze arguments and how to notice the subtle things that lead to misrepresentation such as the one you have arrived at. You can thank me later, friend!

The funny thing is I actually followed several courses on formal logic. I guess I didn't learn anything.

In any case, I think Flash and Jaedong will be very strong over time, it just doesn't validate the elephant theory which requires that every single KeSPA A-teamer would completely crush all the competition, not just Flash or Jaedong.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
August 06 2012 13:26 GMT
#2242
On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive.

Terran has a 40% TvZ winrate on Entombed Valley, yet how often do you see terrans blame their losses on that map? Zergs really need to stop complaining about maps so much.
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
August 06 2012 13:27 GMT
#2243
On August 06 2012 22:22 MrMercuG wrote:
I don't understand why everyone is saying that the BW pro's (the high level ones) are not going to be playing SC2 at a high level, they have only been playing for a couple of months. For example the WC3 pro's (Moon & Grubby) we're pretty terrible when they started but now have gotten stronger and stronger and still are growing super fast. I think that that's going to be the same for the BW pro's.

Nobody's saying that. I'm pretty sure some kespa pros will turn out top SC2 players. It just isn't completely related to their BW past. That some BW pros end up playing at top level (Come on JD I fucking believe!!!!) doesn't validate the elephant theory at all.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 06 2012 13:38 GMT
#2244
On August 06 2012 22:17 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:12 Grumbels wrote:
Current GSL players are roughly the same group as they were a year ago, the elephant theory always was that the competition was a farce not because of the level of play, but because of the people dominating. Clearly, the same people are dominating, so competition should still be a farce, by the elephant theory's standards. Nobody ever denied that among the KeSPA players there would be a lot of really strong players, I think people are just hesitant to say that given a year they will come to totally dominate the scene (not to mention the leap required to say that the competition was worthless before).

Squeegy is simply morphing the theory to suit his own needs, so he can keep it as a sort of boogeyman looming over the scene.


I suggest you read a book or two on formal logic. It'll teach how to analyze arguments and how to notice the subtle things that lead to misrepresentation such as the one you have arrived at. You can thank me later, friend!

You are disgustingly arrogant. If the KeSPA players were better, they'd win. It's as simple as that. The better player wins. Could they potentially be better? Yes. Are they currently better? Not even close.

You call yourself an objective bystander, yet you have not used objectivity to judge the situation. You have argued with thoughts and feelings, not with measurable facts. Whenever someone attempts to deny you, you just tell them they're stupid and require further education.

You've met your match. In the words of your people, the trolls, "come at me bro".
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Thurken
Profile Joined September 2011
961 Posts
August 06 2012 13:40 GMT
#2245
And it is also funny that people still use the "they will dominate in a few month" after a few month.It is like the "I will quit smoking tomorrow" sentence you say everyday...
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
August 06 2012 13:40 GMT
#2246
On August 06 2012 22:26 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive.

Terran has a 40% TvZ winrate on Entombed Valley, yet how often do you see terrans blame their losses on that map? Zergs really need to stop complaining about maps so much.


Terrans have been nothing but angels the last couple of months ... Please all races have whiners. And your shit does not smell like roses do not try to convince others that it does.
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37125 Posts
August 06 2012 13:40 GMT
#2247
Lol, 4/4 easiest liquibets evarrrrrrr
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 06 2012 13:40 GMT
#2248
On August 06 2012 22:40 Thurken wrote:
And it is also funny that people still use the "they will dominate in a few month" after a few month.It is like the "I will quit smoking tomorrow" sentence you say everyday...

They will continue to say it until it is done. If it is never done, we will hear "It's only been a year, the GSL players have been playing for three years, that's not a fair comparison."
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2553 Posts
August 06 2012 13:41 GMT
#2249
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....

ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......

CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.

God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations.
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 06 2012 13:42 GMT
#2250
On August 06 2012 22:41 sM.Zik wrote:
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....

ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......

CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.

God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations.

No one forces you to read the conversation. You're just disrupting a conversation, you're not actually helping.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
5c0rp10n
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany342 Posts
August 06 2012 13:43 GMT
#2251
Missed the JD vs aLive match. Will there be VODs somewhere?
| NaNiwa | CJ`herO |
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2553 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:47:38
August 06 2012 13:47 GMT
#2252
On August 06 2012 22:42 Chargelot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:41 sM.Zik wrote:
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....

ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......

CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.

God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations.

No one forces you to read the conversation. You're just disrupting a conversation, you're not actually helping.


Im not helping and im disrupting the conversation?

...

Im sharing my view, which have points that nobody talked about (at least in the last few pages) thus im helping.
Whoever answer would be "disrupting" the conversation like you said.

Care to explain your logic, sir?
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
August 06 2012 13:47 GMT
#2253
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.

Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2553 Posts
August 06 2012 13:48 GMT
#2254
On August 06 2012 22:47 figq wrote:
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.

Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.


That's what im trying to tell them but they don't want to understand.
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
August 06 2012 13:51 GMT
#2255
On August 06 2012 22:43 5c0rp10n wrote:
Missed the JD vs aLive match. Will there be VODs somewhere?


They're already up on GomTV! Guess what I'm spending tomorrow doing~

Well really I just want to watch Parting vs sC to see if sC is slowly returning to form. Maybe JD v aLive just because,
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 06 2012 13:51 GMT
#2256
On August 06 2012 22:47 sM.Zik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:42 Chargelot wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:41 sM.Zik wrote:
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....

ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......

CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.

God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations.

No one forces you to read the conversation. You're just disrupting a conversation, you're not actually helping.


Im not helping and im disrupting the conversation?

...

Im sharing my view, which have points that nobody talked about (at least in the last few pages) thus im helping.
Whoever answer would be "disrupting" the conversation like you said.

Care to explain your logic, sir?

WHOA CALM DOWN STOP POSTING I DONT WANT TO READ THIS HOLY SHIT STOP GO GET DRUNK

Do you see how disruptive that is? If you wish to not read something, then don't. But it's a lot worse to join an actual conversation, and demand that it stop taking place because you don't like it. Caps lock was a nice touch, too.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 13:53:32
August 06 2012 13:52 GMT
#2257
On August 06 2012 22:47 figq wrote:
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.

Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.


which do not mean anything because you can win trough SC2 only. I do not understand why they kept the format.
Should have kept an only bw league would have made much more sense.
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
wangstra
Profile Joined March 2011
922 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 14:00:26
August 06 2012 13:56 GMT
#2258
Hopefully someone could help with my question. Is anyone aware if the WCS are available to 2012 GSL Light Ticket holders?

Basically is there anywhere to watch the vods?
Code(Z)
Profile Joined August 2012
Korea (South)6 Posts
August 06 2012 13:59 GMT
#2259
LOLOLOL

Its interesting how aLive yet again doesnt get any credits for his victory. His Fanclub left unnoticed again... >_<

This was already true before the Zero Era, and to be perfectly honest, was one of the main reasons that made me turn into this mad man.

I guess it doesnt matter WHAT he does, people would vote against him. If he wins a GSL it was luck, if he defends his IPL championship he got comfortable seedings etc...

JaeDong is a legend, but Iam almost certain no legend will ever reach his peak in SC2 again. (Not even Flash and Moon)

Make room for the new Generation - the new Stars....
Moon # aLive # Oz
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 14:05:42
August 06 2012 13:59 GMT
#2260
On August 06 2012 22:52 Chexx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:47 figq wrote:
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.

Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.


which do not mean anything because you can win trough SC2 only. I do not understand why they kept the format.
Should have kept an only bw league would have made much more sense.
The BW games are meaningful and require still significant effort, even if the ace is SC2. Sometimes you get lucky enough to win the ace, which is just one game, but can't win the whole SC2 set. Then, winning the BW set is crucial.

And also, no team can just ignore the BW preparation, because even if they feel very solid in SC2, it's still possible to make a slip and lose the SC2 set - which would cost them the whole match if they don't care about winning the BW set.

Finally, an all-around solid team would prefer to be able to win both sets - BW and SC2 - and avoid the gamble that is the ace.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Prev 1 111 112 113 114 115 119 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
02:00
FSL s12, week2: POG vs PTB
Freeedom34
Liquipedia
IPSL
02:00
Ro24 Group E
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Airneanach79
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 133
EmSc Tv 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23486
Calm 3618
Rain 1656
EffOrt 374
Shuttle 341
FanTaSy 328
Dewaltoss 119
ggaemo 84
Larva 36
Terrorterran 27
[ Show more ]
910 24
ToSsGirL 24
Hm[arnc] 20
Rock 15
Aegong 14
Trap 13
soO 12
Sacsri 10
Free 7
Dota 2
qojqva2592
420jenkins596
League of Legends
Trikslyr43
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1315
jkaem84
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor425
MindelVK6
Other Games
Grubby2489
Beastyqt640
B2W.Neo393
XaKoH 183
dupreeh169
Railgan12
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV989
gamesdonequick891
WardiTV624
BasetradeTV169
StarCraft 2
angryscii 21
EmSc Tv 18
EmSc2Tv 18
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 12
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• Pr0nogo 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV780
League of Legends
• Jankos2637
Other Games
• Shiphtur368
Upcoming Events
BSL
1h 44m
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
15h 44m
WardiTV Invitational
17h 44m
IPSL
22h 44m
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
1d 1h
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
SOOP
1d 15h
soO vs FanTaSy
WardiTV Weekly
1d 17h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
IEM Kraków 2027
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.