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On August 06 2012 22:17 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:12 Grumbels wrote:
Current GSL players are roughly the same group as they were a year ago, the elephant theory always was that the competition was a farce not because of the level of play, but because of the people dominating. Clearly, the same people are dominating, so competition should still be a farce, by the elephant theory's standards. Nobody ever denied that among the KeSPA players there would be a lot of really strong players, I think people are just hesitant to say that given a year they will come to totally dominate the scene (not to mention the leap required to say that the competition was worthless before).
Squeegy is simply morphing the theory to suit his own needs, so he can keep it as a sort of boogeyman looming over the scene. I suggest you read a book or two on formal logic. It'll teach how to analyze arguments and how to notice the subtle things that lead to misrepresentation such as the one you have arrived at. You can thank me later, friend!
The funny thing is I actually followed several courses on formal logic. I guess I didn't learn anything.
In any case, I think Flash and Jaedong will be very strong over time, it just doesn't validate the elephant theory which requires that every single KeSPA A-teamer would completely crush all the competition, not just Flash or Jaedong.
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Germany6799 Posts
On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive.
Terran has a 40% TvZ winrate on Entombed Valley, yet how often do you see terrans blame their losses on that map? Zergs really need to stop complaining about maps so much.
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On August 06 2012 22:22 MrMercuG wrote:
I don't understand why everyone is saying that the BW pro's (the high level ones) are not going to be playing SC2 at a high level, they have only been playing for a couple of months. For example the WC3 pro's (Moon & Grubby) we're pretty terrible when they started but now have gotten stronger and stronger and still are growing super fast. I think that that's going to be the same for the BW pro's.
Nobody's saying that. I'm pretty sure some kespa pros will turn out top SC2 players. It just isn't completely related to their BW past. That some BW pros end up playing at top level (Come on JD I fucking believe!!!!) doesn't validate the elephant theory at all.
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On August 06 2012 22:17 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:12 Grumbels wrote:
Current GSL players are roughly the same group as they were a year ago, the elephant theory always was that the competition was a farce not because of the level of play, but because of the people dominating. Clearly, the same people are dominating, so competition should still be a farce, by the elephant theory's standards. Nobody ever denied that among the KeSPA players there would be a lot of really strong players, I think people are just hesitant to say that given a year they will come to totally dominate the scene (not to mention the leap required to say that the competition was worthless before).
Squeegy is simply morphing the theory to suit his own needs, so he can keep it as a sort of boogeyman looming over the scene. I suggest you read a book or two on formal logic. It'll teach how to analyze arguments and how to notice the subtle things that lead to misrepresentation such as the one you have arrived at. You can thank me later, friend!
You are disgustingly arrogant. If the KeSPA players were better, they'd win. It's as simple as that. The better player wins. Could they potentially be better? Yes. Are they currently better? Not even close.
You call yourself an objective bystander, yet you have not used objectivity to judge the situation. You have argued with thoughts and feelings, not with measurable facts. Whenever someone attempts to deny you, you just tell them they're stupid and require further education.
You've met your match. In the words of your people, the trolls, "come at me bro".
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And it is also funny that people still use the "they will dominate in a few month" after a few month.It is like the "I will quit smoking tomorrow" sentence you say everyday...
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On August 06 2012 22:26 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 21:09 grungust wrote:
JD would have won that first game on a more balanced map. JD could have very easily won this match against a legit code s terran. Despite the 0-2 loss, JD still looked impressive. Terran has a 40% TvZ winrate on Entombed Valley, yet how often do you see terrans blame their losses on that map? Zergs really need to stop complaining about maps so much.
Terrans have been nothing but angels the last couple of months ... Please all races have whiners. And your shit does not smell like roses do not try to convince others that it does.
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On August 06 2012 22:40 Thurken wrote:
And it is also funny that people still use the "they will dominate in a few month" after a few month.It is like the "I will quit smoking tomorrow" sentence you say everyday...
They will continue to say it until it is done. If it is never done, we will hear "It's only been a year, the GSL players have been playing for three years, that's not a fair comparison."
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Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....
ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......
CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.
God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations.
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On August 06 2012 22:41 sM.Zik wrote:
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....
ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......
CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.
God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations.
No one forces you to read the conversation. You're just disrupting a conversation, you're not actually helping.
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Missed the JD vs aLive match. Will there be VODs somewhere?
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On August 06 2012 22:42 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:41 sM.Zik wrote:
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....
ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......
CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.
God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations. No one forces you to read the conversation. You're just disrupting a conversation, you're not actually helping.
Im not helping and im disrupting the conversation?
...
Im sharing my view, which have points that nobody talked about (at least in the last few pages) thus im helping.
Whoever answer would be "disrupting" the conversation like you said.
Care to explain your logic, sir?
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Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.
Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.
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On August 06 2012 22:47 figq wrote:
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.
Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.
That's what im trying to tell them but they don't want to understand.
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On August 06 2012 22:43 5c0rp10n wrote:
Missed the JD vs aLive match. Will there be VODs somewhere?
They're already up on GomTV! Guess what I'm spending tomorrow doing~
Well really I just want to watch Parting vs sC to see if sC is slowly returning to form. Maybe JD v aLive just because,
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On August 06 2012 22:47 sM.Zik wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:42 Chargelot wrote:On August 06 2012 22:41 sM.Zik wrote:
Omg.... For the 234234x times, the so call Elephant in the room theory was way more than a year ago (so the level of the sc2 players are way higher than it was back then) and they didnt know that the KeSPA players would be playing 2 games during their transition....
ITS BEEN WHAT, 3 MONTHS SINCE THEY SWITCHED ? AND THATS NOT EVEN A FULL SWITCH.......
CALM DOWN, GO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE A BOWL, GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND WAIT FOR THE FULL SWITCH.
God im so tired of reading these dumb conversations. No one forces you to read the conversation. You're just disrupting a conversation, you're not actually helping. Im not helping and im disrupting the conversation? ... Im sharing my view, which have points that nobody talked about (at least in the last few pages) thus im helping. Whoever answer would be "disrupting" the conversation like you said. Care to explain your logic, sir?
WHOA CALM DOWN STOP POSTING I DONT WANT TO READ THIS HOLY SHIT STOP GO GET DRUNK
Do you see how disruptive that is? If you wish to not read something, then don't. But it's a lot worse to join an actual conversation, and demand that it stop taking place because you don't like it. Caps lock was a nice touch, too.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On August 06 2012 22:47 figq wrote:
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.
Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams.
which do not mean anything because you can win trough SC2 only. I do not understand why they kept the format.
Should have kept an only bw league would have made much more sense.
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Hopefully someone could help with my question. Is anyone aware if the WCS are available to 2012 GSL Light Ticket holders?
Basically is there anywhere to watch the vods?
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LOLOLOL
Its interesting how aLive yet again doesnt get any credits for his victory. His Fanclub left unnoticed again... >_<
This was already true before the Zero Era, and to be perfectly honest, was one of the main reasons that made me turn into this mad man.
I guess it doesnt matter WHAT he does, people would vote against him. If he wins a GSL it was luck, if he defends his IPL championship he got comfortable seedings etc...
JaeDong is a legend, but Iam almost certain no legend will ever reach his peak in SC2 again. (Not even Flash and Moon)
Make room for the new Generation - the new Stars....
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On August 06 2012 22:52 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:47 figq wrote:
Proleague ends on 22 September 2012. Plus at least 3 months (or more realistically 6 months), means the Elephant Theory has to be evaluated during next year.
Until Proleague ends, all these players should not even be considered SC2 progamers - they don't play SC2 full-time, they have to train in Broodwar too and play official BW matches for their teams. which do not mean anything because you can win trough SC2 only. I do not understand why they kept the format. Should have kept an only bw league would have made much more sense. The BW games are meaningful and require still significant effort, even if the ace is SC2. Sometimes you get lucky enough to win the ace, which is just one game, but can't win the whole SC2 set. Then, winning the BW set is crucial.
And also, no team can just ignore the BW preparation, because even if they feel very solid in SC2, it's still possible to make a slip and lose the SC2 set - which would cost them the whole match if they don't care about winning the BW set.
Finally, an all-around solid team would prefer to be able to win both sets - BW and SC2 - and avoid the gamble that is the ace.
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EPT
