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On July 30 2012 04:18 travis wrote:
it actually does bother me that nani snipes hatch, has perfect timing in his attack (just before corruptors), has incredible positioning, and still almost lost that game.
i cant remember how squirtle beat ret i feel like he macrod up a bigger army faster than naniwa does? and constantly had perfect control/positioning i guess
His attack before the corruptors came out didn't do anything. He had a solid 15seconds to do something, but all he did was move his army around to forcefield everywhere around him, focus down the hatch about halfway, and chase the roaches behind the hatchery a bit, maybe getting off a few collosus shots off on them.
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On July 30 2012 04:19 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:18 Psychobabas wrote:
As a Terran, can someone please explain to me one thing about PvZ.
Does the protoss have to hit before broodlords to stand a chance. It looks like a real mess to me. i've seen protosses play a defensive late game style where they aim for mothership/templar/archon/blink stalker/carrier etc composition, and just play insanely defensive forever trying to lose less money in units than the zerg and then eventually win a big fight with their 200/200 and kill the zerg. or starve the zerg.
and sometimes you get protosses play like Hero and harass with speed-prims all over the map and abuse the immobility of broods. thats always super fun to watch.
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United Kingdom3249 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:18 travis wrote:
it actually does bother me that nani snipes hatch, has perfect timing in his attack (just before corruptors), has incredible positioning, and still almost lost that game.
i cant remember how squirtle beat ret i feel like he macrod up a bigger army faster than naniwa does? and constantly had perfect control/positioning i guess
Both the builds and the macro Naniwa has showcased in the first three games have not been up to the standard of Koreans who are good at PvZ currently. There is a lot of inefficiency shown in his macro and he obviously prioritizes his chrono very differently to say Squirtle or MC.
I don't know, I am not a pro, but stylistically he plays very differently and just looking at how he lines up his upgrades and when he expands he is not playing as cleanly as he could.
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Did they not see that warp prism get killed?
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On July 30 2012 04:18 Psychobabas wrote:
As a Terran, can someone please explain to me one thing about PvZ.
Does the protoss have to hit before broodlords to stand a chance. It looks like a real mess to me.
There are some 2 base timing windows and the 3 base timing window you just saw to kill a zerg teching to brood lords. After that it turns into a massive turtle fest with motherships/recalls/vortexes (my personal favorite is bum-rushing bases with my mothership at home and just recalling when Z tries to counter).
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On July 30 2012 04:20 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
This matchup truly is stupid.. it's either a 2 base all in, or an attack before broodlords or zerg gets 17 broodlords vortex'd and they get obliterated by archons.
or more commonly not, and the toss helplessly dies
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On July 30 2012 04:19 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:18 Psychobabas wrote:
As a Terran, can someone please explain to me one thing about PvZ.
Does the protoss have to hit before broodlords to stand a chance. It looks like a real mess to me. i've seen protosses play a defensive late game style where they aim for mothership/templar/archon/blink stalker/carrier etc composition, and just play insanely defensive forever trying to lose less money in units than the zerg and then eventually win a big fight with their 200/200 and kill the zerg. or starve the zerg.
See the games of MC vs Ret.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:20 m0ck wrote:
The whining. It's everywhere..!
Do you disagree with it? Basically everyone is saying that the match-up is either boring or unstable, or both.
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On July 30 2012 04:18 Psychobabas wrote:
As a Terran, can someone please explain to me one thing about PvZ.
Does the protoss have to hit before broodlords to stand a chance. It looks like a real mess to me.
This is how it looks when the P bases his entire plan on hitting a pre-hive timing, and doesn't even begin to get some sort of anti BL tech or a good lategame economy. That style just creates games like this.
Now the fact that Naniwa thinks this style is his best chance to win says more to me about nani than it does about PvZ. But some might disagree on that...
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Northern Ireland27459 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:19 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:17 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 30 2012 04:15 lannisport wrote:On July 30 2012 04:05 Zealously wrote:On July 30 2012 04:03 Day[9] wrote:
Things seem really really unstable in PvZ right now. Protosses opening gateway first and zergs doing non-roachy focused things during lair tech. Seems like everyone from both sides are being pulled in all sorts of crazy directions! I agree. No one knows for sure what to do and the Zergs seem to get the better end of it. Tell that to Seed Creator and Oz. They have good results, and also lose to players they should theoretically beat, don't really get what your point is? Every player from every race loses to people they should beat. Your point?
Oh I thought you were holding up Seed/Creator/Oz as consistent PvZ specialists, whereas they are all a bit inconsistent in the matchup.
There are few genuine Protoss PvZ monsters these days, a la Stephano's vP, but equally most top Protoss can beat top Zergs on their day.
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On July 30 2012 04:21 las91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:18 Psychobabas wrote:
As a Terran, can someone please explain to me one thing about PvZ.
Does the protoss have to hit before broodlords to stand a chance. It looks like a real mess to me. There are some 2 base timing windows and the 3 base timing window you just saw to kill a zerg teching to brood lords. After that it turns into a massive turtle fest with motherships/recalls/vortexes (my personal favorite is bum-rushing bases with my mothership at home and just recalling when Z tries to counter).
Sounds like a pretty lame matchup
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Really hope Nani takes the series, at least he has different styles in the 3 matchups -.-
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On July 30 2012 04:20 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:18 TheHova wrote:
This is why PvZ is so silly right now. Protoss basically just have tiny timings they have to hit and if they don't, the zerg just rolls them over unless a serious mistake is made. Luckily for Naniwa he hit it this game, but 20seconds later and he's dead.
Not saying it's imbalanced or whatever. Just that i don't like the matchup at all. Sounds like T in TvP
Watch Naniwa vs Thorzain. Beating 20 ghosts and a good amount of vikings is nigh impossible (well very hard)
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United States3657 Posts
On July 30 2012 04:20 Makrel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:20 oogieogie wrote:On July 30 2012 04:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
This matchup truly is stupid.. it's either a 2 base all in, or an attack before broodlords or zerg gets 17 broodlords vortex'd and they get obliterated by archons. If the zerg is unable to split
or the broodlords dont natually clump or the zerg spreads them out (stephano) and protoss just has enough stalkers.
Hate this "split your broodlords" thing because most of the time its like a protoss spliting HTs.
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On July 30 2012 04:22 Zealously wrote:Do you disagree with it? Basically everyone is saying that the match-up is either boring or unstable, or both.
Its hardly unstable when every game plays out basically the same.
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So both players have PvZ as their worse matchup, yet JRecco is winning. That means he's better.
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On July 30 2012 04:20 Sajiki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 04:18 Porcelina wrote:
Why is there so so so much balance whine in this thread? tt. quoted so EVERYONE can see it..
I think we should just conclude that Starcraft 2 is a boring game to watch and nearly every matchup is incredibly imbalanced. Anyone with me?
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I can only listen to Artosis and Incontrol as casters...
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United States10774 Posts
I love chill and apollo. Greatest duo.
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nani barely won that fight
this recco kid could win the series easily
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EPT
