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On July 27 2012 22:25 ImNightmare wrote:
lol, knew it, PvP just sucks for a final. And people were still confident it would be epic. If its just a Bo3 it might still be exciting. This is why I say protoss needs a huge overhaul. Warp in makes boring games. Buff gateway units, remove warp gate mechanic and instantly everything becomes nice to watch but nooooo.. blizzard wants their warpgate. sigh...
I think warpgates are ok . Just you need to remove warpins from pylons and put the warping only around gates + nexus and for warp prism only.
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On July 27 2012 22:37 Orek wrote:
Thank you guys for pointing out how fucked up my analogy was ^^.
I know.
I was wondering why Starcraft mirror is so bad compared to other "mirror" match-ups in the world.
You know, soccer plays 11 vs 11, never 4 lings vs 1 zealot. I know it is not that simple, but having non-mirror as a sport (e-sport) is something special.
Any constructive argument?
Because sports in real life are not equivalent to esports. And because those matches aren't mirrors, you aren't seeing different combinations of cloned players playing against each other.
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I'm suprised there are people suprised about a PbP bo7 lasting less than one hour. It's PvP guys, there is not a lot a player can do to regain the edge in this mirror. It's hard to mess up when you have the lead in this matchup. On the opposite, zerg players have to balance drones/units, making a comeback possible, siegetanks which are key to big engagements & also very vulnerable when unsieged also makes it for nice comebacks. What tools does protoss have to comeback in their mirror? There is none as simple as that. I don't say it's impossible, but it really needs a huge shit to lose the lead when Terran can lose it in a second & zerg can also lose his edge in multiple ways (don't catch a ling runby, bad engagement, overdrone etc).
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On July 27 2012 22:25 ImNightmare wrote:
lol, knew it, PvP just sucks for a final. And people were still confident it would be epic. If its just a Bo3 it might still be exciting. This is why I say protoss needs a huge overhaul. Warp in makes boring games. Buff gateway units, remove warp gate mechanic and instantly everything becomes nice to watch but nooooo.. blizzard wants their warpgate. sigh...
Without Warpgate, Protoss would not be enough distinct from terran. Currently all three races have a different way of unit production. Zerg has larvae, Terran has the traditional method and protoss has warpgates.
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France9034 Posts
On July 27 2012 21:57 Sated wrote:EDIT: Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 21:53 zedrOne wrote:
Just more than ever convinced that GSL is a joke.
It's more a tv show than a tournament.
Seed will join jjakjji in the one time champion then loose team.
yeah ! gsl code S best player in the world.
lol.
Adelscott PvP is more entertaining to watch, and he know only one build !
Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you're French and therefore want to push the, "GSL isn't important, Stephano #1!" agenda...
You know, being French and liking Stephano doesn't make us necessarily shitting on everything else.
His opinion doesn't reflect his entire country's ^_^.
(And personnaly, I don't like much Adelscott PvP...).
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37032 Posts
OMFG!
DAT SEED!!!
DDAAAATTTT SSSSEEEEEDDDD!!!!
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Mirror's sucked in BW too. Mirror's will always be crappy when you have entirely distinct races in an RTS. It's just an unfortunate part of Starcraft.
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On July 27 2012 22:55 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:25 ImNightmare wrote:
lol, knew it, PvP just sucks for a final. And people were still confident it would be epic. If its just a Bo3 it might still be exciting. This is why I say protoss needs a huge overhaul. Warp in makes boring games. Buff gateway units, remove warp gate mechanic and instantly everything becomes nice to watch but nooooo.. blizzard wants their warpgate. sigh... Without Warpgate, Protoss would not be enough distinct from terran. Currently all three races have a different way of unit production. Zerg has larvae, Terran has the traditional method and protoss has warpgates.
Yeah too bad they didn't go 12 years in a similar game somewhere where that was also true and managed just fine to be completely different.
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On July 27 2012 22:58 monkybone wrote:
Mirrors are crappy?
what!?
TvT is glorious! And ZvZ as of late has been pretty entertaining.
Agreed. TvT and recent ZvZ esp when both sides go for different comps is very fun.
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France9034 Posts
On July 27 2012 22:55 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:25 ImNightmare wrote:
lol, knew it, PvP just sucks for a final. And people were still confident it would be epic. If its just a Bo3 it might still be exciting. This is why I say protoss needs a huge overhaul. Warp in makes boring games. Buff gateway units, remove warp gate mechanic and instantly everything becomes nice to watch but nooooo.. blizzard wants their warpgate. sigh... Without Warpgate, Protoss would not be enough distinct from terran. Currently all three races have a different way of unit production. Zerg has larvae, Terran has the traditional method and protoss has warpgates.
In BW toss didn't had warpgate... I don't mean that it should necessarily be removed, but though asymetry is cool, you don't have to get EVERYTHING completely different.
Robo and Stargate work the same T buildings do...
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On July 27 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Mirror's sucked in BW too. Mirror's will always be crappy when you have entirely distinct races in an RTS. It's just an unfortunate part of Starcraft.
TvT is actually really really good; I'd probably rank that as 2nd or 3rd best MU behind TvZ (the old TvZ anyways)
People only started hating TvT cuz we had too many of them during GomTvT era; yes too much of something good can still be bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a good MU in itself
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Poor tier 4 zergs... I get a feeling both Seed and MC will pick zergs for season 4...
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On July 27 2012 22:55 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:25 ImNightmare wrote:
lol, knew it, PvP just sucks for a final. And people were still confident it would be epic. If its just a Bo3 it might still be exciting. This is why I say protoss needs a huge overhaul. Warp in makes boring games. Buff gateway units, remove warp gate mechanic and instantly everything becomes nice to watch but nooooo.. blizzard wants their warpgate. sigh... Without Warpgate, Protoss would not be enough distinct from terran. Currently all three races have a different way of unit production. Zerg has larvae, Terran has the traditional method and protoss has warpgates.
What if they "inherently" got the Terran Drop thingy from the campaign. Queueing units, and they teleport as close to the rally (needs a pylon to be able to have it work)
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On July 27 2012 22:50 SkelA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:25 ImNightmare wrote:
lol, knew it, PvP just sucks for a final. And people were still confident it would be epic. If its just a Bo3 it might still be exciting. This is why I say protoss needs a huge overhaul. Warp in makes boring games. Buff gateway units, remove warp gate mechanic and instantly everything becomes nice to watch but nooooo.. blizzard wants their warpgate. sigh... I think warpgates are ok . Just you need to remove warpins from pylons and put the warping only around gates + nexus and for warp prism only.
Wow you just fixed Protoss. If only Blizzard would do this. I'm becoming quite dissilutioned with Starcraft at the moment to be honest, for the first time in many years.
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On July 27 2012 22:58 monkybone wrote:
Mirrors are crappy?
what!?
TvT is glorious! And ZvZ as of late has been pretty entertaining.
On July 27 2012 22:59 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:58 monkybone wrote:
Mirrors are crappy?
what!?
TvT is glorious! And ZvZ as of late has been pretty entertaining. Agreed. TvT and recent ZvZ esp when both sides go for different comps is very fun.
On July 27 2012 23:00 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Mirror's sucked in BW too. Mirror's will always be crappy when you have entirely distinct races in an RTS. It's just an unfortunate part of Starcraft. TvT is actually really really good; I'd probably rank that as 2nd or 3rd best MU behind TvZ (the old TvZ anyways) People only started hating TvT cuz we had too many of them during GomTvT era; yes too much of something good can still be bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a good MU in itself
Nah TvT is only good in face of how bad the other mirrors. It's definitely not random like the other mirrors and it's very strategical but it's very slow and boring. Good matchups are back and forth and full of multitasking.
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so glad I was finally right for a finals :D Gladly wore my IM shirt today for Barcraft :D Glad Seed won, MCs play was lacking
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On July 27 2012 23:03 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:58 monkybone wrote:
Mirrors are crappy?
what!?
TvT is glorious! And ZvZ as of late has been pretty entertaining. Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:59 S_SienZ wrote:On July 27 2012 22:58 monkybone wrote:
Mirrors are crappy?
what!?
TvT is glorious! And ZvZ as of late has been pretty entertaining. Agreed. TvT and recent ZvZ esp when both sides go for different comps is very fun. Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 23:00 Fubi wrote:On July 27 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Mirror's sucked in BW too. Mirror's will always be crappy when you have entirely distinct races in an RTS. It's just an unfortunate part of Starcraft. TvT is actually really really good; I'd probably rank that as 2nd or 3rd best MU behind TvZ (the old TvZ anyways) People only started hating TvT cuz we had too many of them during GomTvT era; yes too much of something good can still be bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a good MU in itself Nah TvT is only good in face of how bad the other mirrors. It's definitely not random like the other mirrors and it's very strategical but it's very slow and boring. Good matchups are back and forth and full of multitasking.
Depends, when it's TvT mech vs bio, for example if Bomber or SuperNoVa plays, it becomes a wild fest with sick multitasking and stupidly good macro and map usage.
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France9034 Posts
On July 27 2012 23:00 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Mirror's sucked in BW too. Mirror's will always be crappy when you have entirely distinct races in an RTS. It's just an unfortunate part of Starcraft. TvT is actually really really good; I'd probably rank that as 2nd or 3rd best MU behind TvZ (the old TvZ anyways) People only started hating TvT cuz we had too many of them during GomTvT era; yes too much of something good can still be bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a good MU in itself
People hated TvT for another reason : tanks chess and slow armies. It doesn't please everyone (personnally I enjoy this a lot), and tend to lead sometimes to boring game.
BUT, it is still a match up pretty interesting to play and way less volatile than PvP, or ZvZ pre patch.
Then, we must define what a "good match-up" mean. Do we care about the possibilities (PvP and its 1000 openers)? Is it really entertaining (old TvZ, TvP, great ZvP) ? Is it stable and interesting to play (TvT mostly, but others depending the current state of the game)?
Personnally, i'd say the TvT tends to be very stable, but a bit boring to watch sometimes (I enjoy it most of the time, but some people don't, and I completely understand...).
PvP, well.... is quite not very stable (BO loss occurs, I think, mostly in this MU, especially with what ZvZ has become), and sometimes entertaining...
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EPT
