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On July 23 2012 03:54 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:53 Dfgj wrote:On July 23 2012 03:52 Broodwurst wrote:On July 23 2012 03:50 -TesteR- wrote:On July 23 2012 03:49 Dfgj wrote:On July 23 2012 03:48 -TesteR- wrote:On July 23 2012 03:47 Dfgj wrote:On July 23 2012 03:46 FairForever wrote:On July 23 2012 03:44 yeint wrote:
Fairness is a value judgment, you can't claim that something is "mathematically fair".
Yes, rules need to be mathematically consistent, but consistency alone doesn't constitute fairness. But it's still fair in that it applies to everyone equally. Good to hear that there's no such thing as imbalance, since units apply to everyone evenly. We can finally shut down all balance arguments! Only applies to mirror match ups! Mirror matches prove total balance, duh. Zergs have to deal with Broodlords, so how can T or P complain about broods? Zergs have broodlords to deal with broodlords, T or P does not. Broodlord vs Broodlord must be an interesting fight. It's absolutely hilarious to watch. It happened once that I can remember. I believe it was Sheth vs Morrow(morrow played zerg in this case obviously) mined out crossfire max zerg vs max zerg and it was just brood lords sending out more broodlings to fight the other broodlings over and over
NASL Season 1 tiebreaker match, winner got automatic seeding into NASL while loser had to go to NASL playoff.
Game 1: both are at 200/200, with max corrupter/broodlord/infestor armies... Sheth offers a draw 45 min into the game when it's not moving, Morrow declines. Morrow eventually gets a small lead and wins.
Games 2 and 3: Morrow gets BO countered by Sheth and loses within 10 minutes each time, lol.
Good thing he still made it via the playoff - in Round 1 of NASL he decides to play Terran vs July instead of a ZvZ.
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On July 23 2012 03:55 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:53 FairForever wrote:On July 23 2012 03:50 MCDayC wrote:On July 23 2012 03:48 Dodgin wrote:On July 23 2012 03:47 MCDayC wrote:On July 23 2012 03:43 Dodgin wrote:On July 23 2012 03:38 Robson13 wrote:On July 23 2012 03:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 23 2012 03:35 Robson13 wrote:On July 23 2012 03:33 Yaki wrote:
[quote]
extended series This ISN'T extended series. This is normal double elimination rules. Eh? Alicia started up 2-1, It's extended series. Alicia came from the upper bracket, Oz from the lower bracket so Alicia gets an advantage This is actually not as good for Alicia as a normal double elim format would be, Oz would have to win 4 games and Alicia would have to win two, while Oz has to win 3 in this scenario. On July 23 2012 03:41 OtoshimonoU wrote:On July 23 2012 03:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 23 2012 03:38 OtoshimonoU wrote:
How about we get rid of double elimination? People like exciting loser's bracket runs like Squirtle at IPL4 and First is doing a good job gaining fans right now Then they should stop complaining about extended series... You can't have both. Wow I wonder how every other tournament in existence that uses Double Elimination survives without extended series then. Actually I'm pretty sure Oz has to win this Bo7 from behind due to extended series, then win another series (whether Bo3, 5 or 7 I don't know) due to double elim. People shouldn't stop complaining about Extended series imo, mindless whining is of course dumb, but its such a silly, unfun and kinda unfair way to run the tournament that people should still be letting MLG know that they don't want it. Oz has to win the bo7 being down in extended series then win another series? lol 96.5% sure. Otherwise there would be no advantage of winning the winners finals, it would just be like a conventional meeting between two players who have played previously, I think the casters got it wrong. If its not its actually even more stupid, because then not having an extended series would actually be an advantage going into the double elim bracket grand finals. T_T Seriously? That's just stupid... poor Oz. Then again I like Alicia more so meh. Hoping Taeja/First will be more exciting though, Oz has rolled Alicia pretty convincingly these first two games. i dunno, I'm starting to doubt myself. Either way, either they make it impossibly difficult for Oz to win, by having to win a Bo7 from behind, or don't give enough of an advantage to Alicia by having him start only 1 game ahead. This is why Extended series is so bad, let alone the other stuff that happens during the bracket, it ruins the finals as shown by the above. MLG knows this, thats why they have 2 double elim brackets to avoid this. Its just a gimmick way of avoiding the problem, rather than just outright getting rid of extended series.
This.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vtKj6.png)
Modern Art courtesy of the MLG stream lag 
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On July 23 2012 03:51 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:50 bucckevin wrote:
Alicia went through the upper bracket to get a 1 game advantage ;0 in the final bracket? A lot of tournaments (eg. the $1m DOTA 2 tournament) use this structure, as it adds more intrigue as opposed to giving the person from the WB a pretty big lead (eg. one series), making the finals less exciting.
I don't really care if other game tournaments do this. MLG started the extended series crap, everyone complained for so many seasons and they never acknowledged it. Now they tweak it a little bit to make it even stupider instead of removing it entirely.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:56 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:54 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 23 2012 03:53 Dfgj wrote:On July 23 2012 03:52 Broodwurst wrote:On July 23 2012 03:50 -TesteR- wrote:On July 23 2012 03:49 Dfgj wrote:On July 23 2012 03:48 -TesteR- wrote:On July 23 2012 03:47 Dfgj wrote:On July 23 2012 03:46 FairForever wrote:On July 23 2012 03:44 yeint wrote:
Fairness is a value judgment, you can't claim that something is "mathematically fair".
Yes, rules need to be mathematically consistent, but consistency alone doesn't constitute fairness. But it's still fair in that it applies to everyone equally. Good to hear that there's no such thing as imbalance, since units apply to everyone evenly. We can finally shut down all balance arguments! Only applies to mirror match ups! Mirror matches prove total balance, duh. Zergs have to deal with Broodlords, so how can T or P complain about broods? Zergs have broodlords to deal with broodlords, T or P does not. Broodlord vs Broodlord must be an interesting fight. It's absolutely hilarious to watch. It happened once that I can remember. I believe it was Sheth vs Morrow(morrow played zerg in this case obviously) mined out crossfire max zerg vs max zerg and it was just brood lords sending out more broodlings to fight the other broodlings over and over haha it sounds totally retarded
by totally retard you mean totally amazazizing, then yeah.
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On July 23 2012 03:56 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Can someone tell me when Stephano plays ? Would be friendly He bombed out 
He was on the bad side of an extended series. Really hard to win 4 games and only hold the other guy to just 1.
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On July 23 2012 03:52 Prugelhugel wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that Apollo and Artosis should tighten their ties?
I think they should take off their jackets, roll up their sleeves, then climb on the desk and swing the jacket over their heads while screaming ESPORTS as the game starts.
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United States97276 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:57 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:56 Drazerk wrote:On July 23 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Can someone tell me when Stephano plays ? Would be friendly He bombed out He was on the bad side of an extended series. Really hard to win 4 games and only hold the other guy to just 1.
He had to win 3 games to Oz's 2, the score started at 2-1 not 3-0
and he got 2-0d anyways so it's not like extended series really changed anything
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ah shit. I am not so fan of korean players..
thx for the answeres
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On July 23 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Can someone tell me when Stephano plays ? Would be friendly
I'm sorry to tell you this.
But Stephano got Oz'd.
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On July 23 2012 03:57 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:56 Drazerk wrote:On July 23 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Can someone tell me when Stephano plays ? Would be friendly He bombed out He was on the bad side of an extended series. Really hard to win 4 games and only hold the other guy to just 1.
He only had to win 3 cause he lost 2-1 the first time - Oz just played so well though and seemed to have some ideas that really
Oh man... Very nice by Alicia, gogogogo
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YEEEEes, Alicia take it back!
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Anyone think it's unfair that Alicia get's the red lighting? Makes him look like a villain. That's very unfair technically.
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eeeeeh well this is straightforward
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On July 23 2012 03:57 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:56 Drazerk wrote:On July 23 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Can someone tell me when Stephano plays ? Would be friendly He bombed out He was on the bad side of an extended series. Really hard to win 4 games and only hold the other guy to just 1.
Extended series changed nothing about that match
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On July 23 2012 03:55 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:54 Crushinator wrote:On July 23 2012 03:53 FairForever wrote:On July 23 2012 03:50 MCDayC wrote:On July 23 2012 03:48 Dodgin wrote:On July 23 2012 03:47 MCDayC wrote:On July 23 2012 03:43 Dodgin wrote:On July 23 2012 03:38 Robson13 wrote:On July 23 2012 03:36 Dodgin wrote:On July 23 2012 03:35 Robson13 wrote:
[quote]
This ISN'T extended series. This is normal double elimination rules. Eh? Alicia started up 2-1, It's extended series. Alicia came from the upper bracket, Oz from the lower bracket so Alicia gets an advantage This is actually not as good for Alicia as a normal double elim format would be, Oz would have to win 4 games and Alicia would have to win two, while Oz has to win 3 in this scenario. On July 23 2012 03:41 OtoshimonoU wrote:On July 23 2012 03:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 23 2012 03:38 OtoshimonoU wrote:
How about we get rid of double elimination? People like exciting loser's bracket runs like Squirtle at IPL4 and First is doing a good job gaining fans right now Then they should stop complaining about extended series... You can't have both. Wow I wonder how every other tournament in existence that uses Double Elimination survives without extended series then. Actually I'm pretty sure Oz has to win this Bo7 from behind due to extended series, then win another series (whether Bo3, 5 or 7 I don't know) due to double elim. People shouldn't stop complaining about Extended series imo, mindless whining is of course dumb, but its such a silly, unfun and kinda unfair way to run the tournament that people should still be letting MLG know that they don't want it. Oz has to win the bo7 being down in extended series then win another series? lol 96.5% sure. Otherwise there would be no advantage of winning the winners finals, it would just be like a conventional meeting between two players who have played previously, I think the casters got it wrong. If its not its actually even more stupid, because then not having an extended series would actually be an advantage going into the double elim bracket grand finals. T_T Seriously? That's just stupid... poor Oz. Then again I like Alicia more so meh. Hoping Taeja/First will be more exciting though, Oz has rolled Alicia pretty convincingly these first two games. You might say its really unfair to Alicia. No, because the rules were sit prior to the tournament. The positions could've just been as easily flipped.
Dude your mathematical concept of fairness is invalid in anything but a maths discussion. The definition of fairness is not clear, the way you've been mocking people for not agreeing with your ridiculously narrow definition of fair is laughable.
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On July 23 2012 03:58 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:55 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Can someone tell me when Stephano plays ? Would be friendly I'm sorry to tell you this. But Stephano got Oz'd.
Oh no, he went to jail again ?
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You don't need the extended series rule in a double elimination tournament.
The advantage can always just be the fact that each player gets two lives. If the same players meet a second time- one player through the winner's bracket and one player through the loser's bracket- they can just play out completely separate BoXs starting at 0-0 where the previous winner still has an extra life (and so has to lose two full sets to lose) whereas the previous loser only has one life left (and so once he loses one set, he's out for good).
Both the "extra life" award and the "extended series" award are current advantages for the winners and disadvantages for the losers in many double elimination tournaments (e.g. MLG). Both don't need to be implemented though. Keeping them consistent throughout a tournament is important for fairness, but if the quantity and quality of advantages becomes too great for the winners, it may become less of a double elimination tournament, and more of a "single + a miracle" tournament. Many players and spectators still would like to see a competitor have a chance at coming back, despite one bad match. At the end of the day though, it's up to the creators of the tournament to decide on what rules they want to implement.
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Oz is no MC
or maybe he is.
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EPT
