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OtoshimonoU
United States509 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:39 Shellshock1122 wrote: People like exciting loser's bracket runs like Squirtle at IPL4 and First is doing a good job gaining fans right now Then they should stop complaining about extended series... You can't have both. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45783 Posts
The advantage can always be the fact that each player gets two lives. If the same players meet a second time- one player through the winner's bracket and one player through the loser's bracket- they can just play out completely separate BoXs starting at 0-0 where the previous winner still has an extra life (and so has to lose two full sets to lose) whereas the previous loser only has one life left (and so once he loses one set, he's out for good). Both the "extra life" award and the "extended series" award are current advantages for the winners and disadvantages for the losers in many double elimination tournaments (e.g. MLG). Both don't need to be implemented though. Keeping them consistent throughout a tournament is important for fairness, but if the quantity and quality of advantages becomes too great for the winners, it may become less of a double elimination tournament, and more of a "single + a miracle" tournament. Many players and spectators still would like to see a competitor have a chance at coming back, despite one bad match. At the end of the day though, it's up to the creators of the tournament to decide on what rules they want to implement. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:41 OtoshimonoU wrote: Then they should stop complaining about extended series... You can't have both. People are going to complain about everything  I've accepted extended series for what it is | ||
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Blueblister
Sweden321 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:35 Robson13 wrote: This ISN'T extended series. This is normal double elimination rules. This. Thanks! On July 23 2012 03:36 Yaki wrote: they started the series at 2-1, how is that not extended series ???? The issue with extended series fairness has always been MLGs use of it when two players meet in LB, ie both having lost an equal amount of matches. When LB meets WB it's just normal double elimination rules. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:37 skrotcyk wrote: links fact definition from yahoo questions ROOOOOOOOOOOFLLOLLLLLOLOLLLLLLOOOOOOL lol, someone doesn't even bother to understand basic mathematics I see. I'm just explaining how the rule is technically fair. No one with any common sense actually likes the extended series rule. | ||
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polyphonyEX
United States2539 Posts
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:41 OtoshimonoU wrote: Then they should stop complaining about extended series... You can't have both. What? Why not? Extended series is normally not used in double elimination. | ||
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-TesteR-
Canada1165 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:38 Robson13 wrote: Alicia came from the upper bracket, Oz from the lower bracket so Alicia gets an advantage This is actually not as good for Alicia as a normal double elim format would be, Oz would have to win 4 games and Alicia would have to win two, while Oz has to win 3 in this scenario. On July 23 2012 03:41 OtoshimonoU wrote: Then they should stop complaining about extended series... You can't have both. Wow I wonder how every other tournament in existence that uses Double Elimination survives without extended series then. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
Yes, rules need to be mathematically consistent, but consistency alone doesn't constitute fairness. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:43 polyphonyEX wrote: Oz's play is really inspiring this tournament but I can't root against Alicia not to take second place >.< Yeah, I've been rooting against Oz ever since he talked about skill in PvP. Wish Karma was more of a bitch. | ||
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AgentChaos
United Kingdom4569 Posts
god damn pvp is so boring | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:43 Crushinator wrote: What? Why not? Extended series is normally not used in double elimination. In fact i cannot name another tournament using it. Atleast in eSports... although i'm not really following NA tournaments. | ||
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ladyumbra
Canada1699 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:31 n0ise wrote: all this talk about extended series when mlg could basically get away with almost anything right now is pretty pointless they did questionable stuff, it worked for them, 2-3 years in it's kinda past the open-discussion stage People will continue to complain about things they feel make tournaments worse. For example MLG still uses head to head in pool play vs total group mapscore ( there was a fuss about this last year where select beat everyone in his group but drg and had a better mapscore. drg beat everyone in the group but i think.. trickster? and had a slightly worse mapscore. by most tournament rules Select wins the group but mlg used head to head which is dumb when you're in a group stage that big. Hell huk was bitching about this only a couple months ago when it almost screwed him over ( but then heart went on to beat everyone anyways so it didn't matter. ) It doesn't matter how long people have been getting away with bad ideas, people should be allowed to voice concerns over it for as long as it effects them. Gogo Alicia, you can do this , just be careful. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:44 yeint wrote: Fairness is a value judgment, you can't claim that something is "mathematically fair". Yes, rules need to be mathematically consistent, but consistency alone doesn't constitute fairness. No, mathematical fairness is not a value judgement. The extended series rule is stupid because it rewards something that should not be rewarded (winning before losing as opposed to losing before winning). But it's still fair in that it applies to everyone equally. It's as fair as the Dreamhack Coin Toss tournament: - everyone is as likely to benefit from this inept rule as be disadvantaged by it. The only thing not fair about the Coin Toss tournament was Bischu's placing in the bracket - otherwise the tournament was 100% fair. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:45 mikedebo wrote: Holy smoke just looked at brackets now... First! What a beast! Did he chug 1L of red bull before his loser's bracket run or what? He called Squirtle for advice | ||
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polyphonyEX
United States2539 Posts
On July 23 2012 03:45 mikedebo wrote: Holy smoke just looked at brackets now... First! What a beast! Did he chug 1L of red bull before his loser's bracket run or what? IM is sponsored by Burn energy drink and Coca Cola. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
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