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opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 19 2012 04:42 GMT
#141
On July 19 2012 13:42 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool?

map pool is actually decently balanced

It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great.

most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc.
unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol


Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^


I am really curious about the breakdown on winrates on that map (anyone have it?). In my opinion the map has two key features that together (and only together) might make it very balanced even in the long run: it is HUGE and has a wide open center with expansions on the edges of the map. This benefits Zerg in the early and mid game, but bad for late game BroodLord-Infestor. Protoss have a fairly easy time getting to three bases, and the map's size makes the most of the warpgate mechanic. It's also good for Terran because expansions go outward and are easy to drop, while wide open spaces allow better bio concaves and spreads against splash damage.

I really would like to see someone make an even larger map with a wide open center with similar base placement and see what happens with map balance.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/550_Crux_Whirlwind/games
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
July 19 2012 04:43 GMT
#142
On July 19 2012 13:41 Krallman wrote:
Flash wont participate cuz of bw osl?


Flash already in the dual tournie due to being in Ro4 of previous OSL
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
July 19 2012 04:44 GMT
#143
On July 19 2012 13:42 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool?

map pool is actually decently balanced

It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great.

most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc.
unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol


Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^


I am really curious about the breakdown on winrates on that map (anyone have it?). In my opinion the map has two key features that together (and only together) might make it very balanced even in the long run: it is HUGE and has a wide open center with expansions on the edges of the map. This benefits Zerg in the early and mid game, but bad for late game BroodLord-Infestor. Protoss have a fairly easy time getting to three bases, and the map's size makes the most of the warpgate mechanic. It's also good for Terran because expansions go outward and are easy to drop, while wide open spaces allow better bio concaves and spreads against splash damage.

I really would like to see someone make an even larger map with a wide open center with similar base placement and see what happens with map balance.

Good points. One problem that Calm Before the Storm had was the ridiculously large number of chokes, small number of attack paths, and no open areas to engage in. The best way to punish deathball play is to have many attack paths and open areas, as well as spread apart bases. Whirlwind has these features and has so far shown great games for all races.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
July 19 2012 04:44 GMT
#144
On July 19 2012 13:42 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:42 lichter wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool?

map pool is actually decently balanced

It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great.

most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc.
unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol


Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^


I am really curious about the breakdown on winrates on that map (anyone have it?). In my opinion the map has two key features that together (and only together) might make it very balanced even in the long run: it is HUGE and has a wide open center with expansions on the edges of the map. This benefits Zerg in the early and mid game, but bad for late game BroodLord-Infestor. Protoss have a fairly easy time getting to three bases, and the map's size makes the most of the warpgate mechanic. It's also good for Terran because expansions go outward and are easy to drop, while wide open spaces allow better bio concaves and spreads against splash damage.

I really would like to see someone make an even larger map with a wide open center with similar base placement and see what happens with map balance.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/550_Crux_Whirlwind/games


I want game time breakdown too, I wish that were available. Not a lot of games so far but hopefully the trend continues.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 04:47:18
July 19 2012 04:46 GMT
#145
Obviously, Whirlwind's winrate is even because the sample size is very small since it's a new map.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
July 19 2012 04:47 GMT
#146
On July 19 2012 13:43 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:41 Krallman wrote:
Flash wont participate cuz of bw osl?


Flash already in the dual tournie due to being in Ro4 of previous OSL


10 qualifiers today + Zero + Flash --> 12 man ODT --> 6 move on

Those 6 + Fantasy + Jangbi + MVP, Oz, DRG, San + 4 more 'GOM' qualifers from ODT group C and D.


NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 04:55:21
July 19 2012 04:52 GMT
#147
On July 19 2012 13:42 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool?

map pool is actually decently balanced

It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great.

most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc.
unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol


Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^


I am really curious about the breakdown on winrates on that map (anyone have it?). In my opinion the map has two key features that together (and only together) might make it very balanced even in the long run: it is HUGE and has a wide open center with expansions on the edges of the map. This benefits Zerg in the early and mid game, but bad for late game BroodLord-Infestor. Protoss have a fairly easy time getting to three bases, and the map's size makes the most of the warpgate mechanic. It's also good for Terran because expansions go outward and are easy to drop, while wide open spaces allow better bio concaves and spreads against splash damage.

I really would like to see someone make an even larger map with a wide open center with similar base placement and see what happens with map balance.


GSL + GSTL

TvZ: 50% (5-5)
PvT: 54.5% (6-5)
ZvP: 50% (6-6)

Edit: They are all played since the balance change.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 04:55:50
July 19 2012 04:54 GMT
#148
On July 19 2012 13:44 oOOoOphidian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:42 lichter wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool?

map pool is actually decently balanced

It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great.

most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc.
unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol


Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^


I am really curious about the breakdown on winrates on that map (anyone have it?). In my opinion the map has two key features that together (and only together) might make it very balanced even in the long run: it is HUGE and has a wide open center with expansions on the edges of the map. This benefits Zerg in the early and mid game, but bad for late game BroodLord-Infestor. Protoss have a fairly easy time getting to three bases, and the map's size makes the most of the warpgate mechanic. It's also good for Terran because expansions go outward and are easy to drop, while wide open spaces allow better bio concaves and spreads against splash damage.

I really would like to see someone make an even larger map with a wide open center with similar base placement and see what happens with map balance.

Good points. One problem that Calm Before the Storm had was the ridiculously large number of chokes, small number of attack paths, and no open areas to engage in. The best way to punish deathball play is to have many attack paths and open areas, as well as spread apart bases. Whirlwind has these features and has so far shown great games for all races.


The only problem I have with wide-open centers is that it probably spells death to mech for Terran in SC2 I really want mech to work, and I don't think it will on maps like Whirlwind. I hope someone proves me wrong though.

On July 19 2012 13:46 larse wrote:
Obviously, Whirlwind's winrate is even because the sample size is very small since it's a new map.


I actually didn't know about the map being balanced (so far, and yes, tiny sample) though. I've had the opinion that it might be since seeing Ryung vs DRG.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 19 2012 05:02 GMT
#149
moletrap ‏@moletrap
Matches still haven't started yet. Some players are messing around playing micro maps and stuff or just talking, some playing practice games


well this sucks
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Kieofire
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1809 Posts
July 19 2012 05:05 GMT
#150
On July 19 2012 14:02 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
moletrap ‏@moletrap
Matches still haven't started yet. Some players are messing around playing micro maps and stuff or just talking, some playing practice games


well this sucks


I know, I'm about to head to sleep if they don't start soon, waiting 2 hours for it to start in general is a real letdown.
Krallman
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden713 Posts
July 19 2012 05:06 GMT
#151
On July 19 2012 13:47 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:43 lichter wrote:
On July 19 2012 13:41 Krallman wrote:
Flash wont participate cuz of bw osl?


Flash already in the dual tournie due to being in Ro4 of previous OSL


10 qualifiers today + Zero + Flash --> 12 man ODT --> 6 move on

Those 6 + Fantasy + Jangbi + MVP, Oz, DRG, San + 4 more 'GOM' qualifers from ODT group C and D.




Ah okey :D Gogo Fantasy win both OSL bw and sc2!
Im better than Stefan
MCXD
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Australia2738 Posts
July 19 2012 05:22 GMT
#152
The hype train is pretty deflated right now. Isn't the idea to complete all of the negotiations and setting up before the event starts?
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
July 19 2012 05:22 GMT
#153
On July 19 2012 14:22 MCXD wrote:
The hype train is pretty deflated right now. Isn't the idea to complete all of the negotiations and setting up before the event starts?

yea T_T
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
July 19 2012 05:25 GMT
#154
On July 19 2012 12:44 Talionis wrote:
[image loading]

Here we go! Jaedong and Bisu sitting next to each other


AND who's to the right???

On July 19 2012 12:57 N.geNuity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 12:44 Talionis wrote:
[image loading]r


ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

bw fans know why I'm laughing


Of course. Look at who's sitting beside him!
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
July 19 2012 05:26 GMT
#155
16 minute gap between posts

IS THIS AN LR OR NOT
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 05:27:46
July 19 2012 05:26 GMT
#156
moletrap ‏@moletrap
They said I could but then when I started recording a coach complained and so I can't record any screen footage "so IDs don't get leaked"

sad opterown is sad

i guess this means games have started though
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Talionis
Profile Joined November 2010
Scotland4085 Posts
July 19 2012 05:27 GMT
#157
On July 19 2012 14:26 lichter wrote:
16 minute gap between posts

IS THIS AN LR OR NOT

We've been LRing everything that's happened so far very well :p

+ Show Spoiler +
nothing


Sounds like the games have started the games now.
Kieofire
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1809 Posts
July 19 2012 05:27 GMT
#158
On July 19 2012 14:26 lichter wrote:
16 minute gap between posts

IS THIS AN LR OR NOT


Kind of hard when it has been delayed for 2 hours+ with no recent updates to whether they have started or not.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
July 19 2012 05:31 GMT
#159
On July 19 2012 14:27 Talionis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 14:26 lichter wrote:
16 minute gap between posts

IS THIS AN LR OR NOT

We've been LRing everything that's happened so far very well :p

+ Show Spoiler +
nothing


Sounds like the games have started the games now.


Yeah but I just don't feel the hype

Last time we had these the thread exploded with twitter feeds and bnet stalking. We need more "omg the dong is playing custom monobattles" or "@KhanSHINE i build hydras kekeke"
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
N.geNuity
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States5112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 05:33:20
July 19 2012 05:32 GMT
#160
On July 19 2012 14:22 MCXD wrote:
The hype train is pretty deflated right now. Isn't the idea to complete all of the negotiations and setting up before the event starts?


*tear* they grow up so fast.

soon sc2 fans will know all about kespa's organizational excellence.

*edit* in regards to bnet stalking, don't think there is much but someone did post EightTeamJD or something (jd) and terminator should be Sang: http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/1860195/1/terminator/matches

sang has a fist round match so that may be the first profile to have a game.
iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, fiestar, sinb, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVERR
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