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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great.
most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc.
unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol
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On July 19 2012 13:07 DiMano wrote:Because KeSPA did not create their own ones and can use only Blizzard maps.
So Kespa players can actually practice on the ladder and catch up.
And the maps are definitely selected to disfavor zerg, due to the recent winrate.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 19 2012 13:13 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:07 DiMano wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? Because KeSPA did not create their own ones and can use only Blizzard maps. So Kespa players can actually practice on the ladder and catch up. And the maps are definitely selected to disfavor zerg, due to the recent winrate.
winrates on these map are actually quite even for zerg, it's just that all the other maps are zerg-favourable so zerg players want them in 
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On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol
I agree, SC2 just doesn't have many good maps. I am just sad they didn't use Daybreak. Tal'Darim Altar isn't well balanced, but with some minor changes it could produce great games that are different from those on all these small maps.
In particular, Ohana makes really bad games and so does Antiga. Cloud Kingdom doesn't have the best balance, but the games are much better and we've seen many in proleague.
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Shame it's not being streamed ):
Cheering for Hoejja! ^^
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51694 Posts
Coaches dont want us recording because of ID shit/strats leaking etc. nothing is final though.
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If there was only a stream to watch the matches 
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On July 19 2012 13:19 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol I agree, SC2 just doesn't have many good maps. I am just sad they didn't use Daybreak. Tal'Darim Altar isn't well balanced, but with some minor changes it could produce great games that are different from those on all these small maps. In particular, Ohana makes really bad games and so does Antiga. Cloud Kingdom doesn't have the best balance, but the games are much better and we've seen many in proleague.
I know we are not suppose to talk about balance in LR thread.
But Antiga is a Terran faovr map, and Ohana and Entombed Valley have the rock to the third, which can be seen as intentional selection to contain zerg, due to the recent winrate. I think the map selection is smart.
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On July 19 2012 13:27 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:19 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol I agree, SC2 just doesn't have many good maps. I am just sad they didn't use Daybreak. Tal'Darim Altar isn't well balanced, but with some minor changes it could produce great games that are different from those on all these small maps. In particular, Ohana makes really bad games and so does Antiga. Cloud Kingdom doesn't have the best balance, but the games are much better and we've seen many in proleague. I know we are not suppose to talk about balance in LR thread. But Antiga is a Terran faovr map, and Ohana and Entombed Valley have the rock to the third, which can be seen as intentional selection to contain zerg, due to the recent winrate. I think the map selection is smart.
It's hard to say. Protoss has been profiting well from this map pool and Terrans are still losing a lot even with Antiga. I just think the maps are poorly chosen to show good games, regardless of balance.
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51694 Posts
Games still haven't started. Coaches and referees still deliberating + other things.
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On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol
Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51544 Posts
On July 19 2012 13:19 bLecK wrote:
Shame it's not being streamed ):
Cheering for Hoejja! ^^
BroeJJa!
hes the bro man.
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On July 19 2012 13:30 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:27 larse wrote:On July 19 2012 13:19 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol I agree, SC2 just doesn't have many good maps. I am just sad they didn't use Daybreak. Tal'Darim Altar isn't well balanced, but with some minor changes it could produce great games that are different from those on all these small maps. In particular, Ohana makes really bad games and so does Antiga. Cloud Kingdom doesn't have the best balance, but the games are much better and we've seen many in proleague. I know we are not suppose to talk about balance in LR thread. But Antiga is a Terran faovr map, and Ohana and Entombed Valley have the rock to the third, which can be seen as intentional selection to contain zerg, due to the recent winrate. I think the map selection is smart. It's hard to say. Protoss has been profiting well from this map pool and Terrans are still losing a lot even with Antiga. I just think the maps are poorly chosen to show good games, regardless of balance.
I think it's pretty subjective. I think Antiga and Entombed Valley produced better games. And their wide-open central area really give me the BW feeling. And I have to say even though there have been good games in Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom, I generally don't think their games are better than Antiga and Entombed.
BTW, thanks for all the SPL HD streams.
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Hey look it's Cezanne and (maybe?) TheWind!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eRdum.jpg)
Jaedong struggling with getting graphics settings the same as in practice while Bisu switched PCs because his was laggy.
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On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^
Yeah. If anything, huge distances help terran spread the opponent out with multiple attacks and drops while securing many bases. Kind of like what people love about BW.
Bad maps make bad games. Imagine if we were still watching sc2 on Steppes of War or Lost Temple?
I mean I suppose variety is the biggest thing. In BW maps like Monty Hall had terrible balance, but produced interesting/exciting games due to creativity of the players and most importantly because every map was not like them.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2012 13:38 Clefairy wrote:Hey look it's Cezanne and (maybe?) TheWind! Jaedong struggling with getting graphics settings the same as in practice while Bisu switched PCs because his was laggy.
JAEDONG JAEDONG JAEDONG!!!!!
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Flash wont participate cuz of bw osl?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 19 2012 13:33 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:13 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:11 oOOoOphidian wrote:On July 19 2012 13:09 opterown wrote:On July 19 2012 13:06 TommyP wrote:
Why such a shit map pool? map pool is actually decently balanced It's really not. Proleague has an awful map pool, as does the coming OSL. DRG even talked about it recently. Entombed Valley is the only good map they are using and it's not that great. most other maps they could use are more imbalanced e.g. CK, metropolis, whirlwind, atlantis etc. unless you want to use like shakuras or something lol Whirlwind statistically is near 50% in ALL match ups interestingly enough. That's not more broken then the current map pool proleague is using. Metropolis/atlantis are obviously bad for terran and stuff but whirlwind statistically so far it's very balanced and has so far produced some really nice games ^_^
I am really curious about the breakdown on winrates on that map (anyone have it?). In my opinion the map has two key features that together (and only together) might make it very balanced even in the long run: it is HUGE and has a wide open center with expansions on the edges of the map. This benefits Zerg in the early and mid game, but bad for late game BroodLord-Infestor. Protoss have a fairly easy time getting to three bases, and the map's size makes the most of the warpgate mechanic. It's also good for Terran because expansions go outward and are easy to drop, while wide open spaces allow better bio concaves and spreads against splash damage.
I really would like to see someone make an even larger map with a wide open center with similar base placement and see what happens with map balance.
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On July 19 2012 13:41 Krallman wrote:
Flash wont participate cuz of bw osl?
seed from RO4
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On July 19 2012 13:41 Krallman wrote:
Flash wont participate cuz of bw osl?
He already has a seed I believe. Same goes for all ro4 in OSL from what I recall. So Jangbi/Fantasy/Flash/ZerO got in.
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EPT
