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On July 05 2012 20:16 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:12 Forikorder wrote:On July 05 2012 20:11 Ragnarork wrote:
Well, would've liked something different than "the two zergs won over the two terrans" especially in these post queen patch.
It seems it took Ryung 3 games worth of skill to win game 1, the two next game being rather poor...
And Terrans still with a questionnable late game (Ryung vs DRG let us know that it can win battles, but not games, not like protoss deathball or Blords/Infestors) wait.. ryung wins a late game ZvT and proves late game Terran cant win? Not complaining about balance, but DRG went BL on probably the worst possible map ever. The map is insanely huge and with the new TvZ lategame style of playing cat 'n mouse, you can't just get BL and win the game on that map. That isn't to discredit what Ryung did. He played an excellent game and showed the ideal method to beat lategame TvZ, but it's pretty obvious what DRG did wrong that game.
DRG just messed up first hive army and didn't adapt after he figured he can't do anything with it. After that with a terran that still has economy it gets easier for terran. But it means having ~even bases/infrastructure terran and zerg with the zerg lacking the huge bank.
200 v 200 without the proper bank zerg is a bit bad, esp if you have brood/inf on a map where it takes a day to move broods anywhere. Same would be if it ended up MMM/Tank vs Ultras with no bank.
But that's the fault of the zerg wasting the bank on poor transitions. Or just bad luck (doesn't know what terran goes for to remax) - is that bad luck or scouting?
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
God if Nestea wins, him having a rematch vs Naniwa would be epic.
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Whoever wins this match, basically has a free ro4. Because Naniwa's PvZ is pretty fail
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We'll have either DRG vs Naniwa or Nestea vs Naniwa
<3 GSL
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On July 05 2012 20:20 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:15 Orek wrote:On July 05 2012 20:11 Ragnarork wrote:
Well, would've liked something different than "the two zergs won over the two terrans" especially in these post queen patch.
It seems it took Ryung 3 games worth of skill to win game 1, the two next game being rather poor...
And Terrans still with a questionnable late game (Ryung vs DRG let us know that it can win battles, but not games, not like protoss deathball or Blords/Infestors) Ironically, the only game Terran won vs Zerg so far today is the super macro game Ryung vs DRG on Whirlwind. What's up with "Terran can't win late game after queen buff." Terran late game might be tough today, but SUPER late game is and has been in favor of Terran with enough money for ghost and raven... And ? What was the composition of Ryung ? What was the composition of DRG ? Not mentionning the suicide of infestors to marines, and HSM, though infestors have a bigger range.
and arguing that Ryung played better than DRG games 2 & 3 is also silly, I.E. this debate is pointless
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France9034 Posts
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Is the guy with the "I heard there's pizza here" cheerful at the studio tonight?
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On July 05 2012 20:21 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:16 ImNightmare wrote:On July 05 2012 20:14 Vindicate wrote:
Without commenting on balance, I do find it funny that people are complaining about zerg being OP when the zergs in question are NesTea and DRG. These are two of the top 5 zergs in the world, arguably, that we are discussing here. They were consistently beating Terrans throughout almost the entirety of SC2's existence. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might well be, I'm not real familiar with Supernova or Ryung) but I think neither of those two Terran players have won a major tournament, while NesTea and DRG have lists of honors/awards/wins to their name.
I haven't played much SC2 recently and I was never real knowledgeable about the game to begin with, but I think balance discussions might need more accurate comparisons. Yeah. This. Pretty funny how Terrans actually think Drg and nestea would be weaker then this 2 other terrans. They are the representations of zergs. While the terrans here are pretty meh in accomplishments compared to them The main problem is not balanced, even if we admit zerg has a slight advantage (which I'm not really sure, it's surely less than terran's old advantage) the problem is boring matches. TvZ used to be the best match up by miles, it was back & forth game, terran keeping trading to keep zerg from getting to T3, fights all along the game etc Now it's just not the same & from a spectator point of view we lost a lot. Now it just seems that if the map is not suitable for strong drop play, zerg just have to trade inefficiently with banelings because he has so much more income & more tech incoming behind. At least this is what happened during the nestea vs supernova.
Supernova did 2 all ins in 2 games. The first being a semi all, the second being a all in. Supernova basically dictate what nestea should do. Nestea crashed his banelings to maruders because he has already won it. It was an all in. I don't get what you don't understand. He even brought scvs which died.
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I believe last time they played DRG was not yet a GSL champion?
So this is the first time ever that there will be a Zerg GSL champion vs Zerg GSL champion ZvZ in GSL?
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On July 05 2012 20:21 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Hope this is as good as last time ^_^
please please let it be good
I just hope NesTea has cleaned up his late game since then. He made so many late game little mistakes against DRG last time
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oh god, let it be Naniwa vs Nestea in Ro8
it has to be!
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GUYS GUYS GUYS you can't tell if a matchup is balanced from 1 game, stop using this or that game as proof of imbalance.
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United States97274 Posts
On July 05 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:
I believe last time they played DRG was not yet a GSL champion?
So this is the first time ever that there will be a Zerg GSL champion vs Zerg GSL champion ZvZ in GSL?
No. Fruitdealer played Nestea before in GSL May. Nestea won 2-1
he had some good roach splits vs FD's banes
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On July 05 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:
I believe last time they played DRG was not yet a GSL champion?
So this is the first time ever that there will be a Zerg GSL champion vs Zerg GSL champion ZvZ in GSL?
whoops wanted to correct myself on that one, I was wrong about say you were right
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Nestea's 16th drone a whole 1.5 seconds behind DRG's.
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On July 05 2012 20:23 Hall0wed wrote:
Nestea's 16th drone a whole 1.5 seconds behind DRG's.
Fuck. That means minerals lost is over 9000 after 15 mins. FUCK
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On July 05 2012 20:23 zefreak wrote:
GUYS GUYS GUYS you can't tell if a matchup is balanced from 1 game, stop using this or that game as proof of imbalance.
1 game ? What about the insane zerg winrate in the ZVT matchup for the past month?
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lol so synced 
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On July 05 2012 20:23 Hall0wed wrote:
Nestea's 16th drone a whole 1.5 seconds behind DRG's.
drg has the better spawning position!
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On July 05 2012 20:22 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 20:21 nojok wrote:On July 05 2012 20:16 ImNightmare wrote:On July 05 2012 20:14 Vindicate wrote:
Without commenting on balance, I do find it funny that people are complaining about zerg being OP when the zergs in question are NesTea and DRG. These are two of the top 5 zergs in the world, arguably, that we are discussing here. They were consistently beating Terrans throughout almost the entirety of SC2's existence. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might well be, I'm not real familiar with Supernova or Ryung) but I think neither of those two Terran players have won a major tournament, while NesTea and DRG have lists of honors/awards/wins to their name.
I haven't played much SC2 recently and I was never real knowledgeable about the game to begin with, but I think balance discussions might need more accurate comparisons. Yeah. This. Pretty funny how Terrans actually think Drg and nestea would be weaker then this 2 other terrans. They are the representations of zergs. While the terrans here are pretty meh in accomplishments compared to them The main problem is not balanced, even if we admit zerg has a slight advantage (which I'm not really sure, it's surely less than terran's old advantage) the problem is boring matches. TvZ used to be the best match up by miles, it was back & forth game, terran keeping trading to keep zerg from getting to T3, fights all along the game etc Now it's just not the same & from a spectator point of view we lost a lot. Now it just seems that if the map is not suitable for strong drop play, zerg just have to trade inefficiently with banelings because he has so much more income & more tech incoming behind. At least this is what happened during the nestea vs supernova. Supernova did 2 all ins in 2 games. The first being a semi all, the second being a all in. Supernova basically dictate what nestea should do. Nestea crashed his banelings to maruders because he has already won it. It was an all in. I don't get what you don't understand. He even brought scvs which died.
And why do you think a code S terran try gimmicky stuff like that? & again I'm not complaining about balanced, it's about boring matches.
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EPT
