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On July 05 2012 01:15 Tula wrote:
Without any comment regarding wether anyone deserved to loose or not (frankly they both made mistakes) I find it retarded that the 3/3 army can loose a battle in 3 seconds against the 3/1 army. Frankly strictly as an observer (I have never played protoss above gold league) PVP is a very strange matchup culminating in a stupid standoff situation.
Obviously Naniwa positioned his army correctly and targeted correctly, but it just feels wrong to me that you can be so behind in upgrades and still win an engagement so decisively just by getting 1 salvo correctly. It just reinforces my opinion that the colossus is the worst designed Unit in the entire game.
Well it feels wrong to me that just by having an upgrade deficit you automatically loose the game. It would be quite stupid and there would be no point in playing once you realize you are behind in upgrade no ? Plus a 3-1 to 3-3 deficit is equivalent to a 1-1 to 2-2 deficit, yes the better upgraded army has an advantage, doesn't mean they should automatically win the fight.
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On July 05 2012 01:15 Tula wrote:
Without any comment regarding wether anyone deserved to loose or not (frankly they both made mistakes) I find it retarded that the 3/3 army can loose a battle in 3 seconds against the 3/1 army. Frankly strictly as an observer (I have never played protoss above gold league) PVP is a very strange matchup culminating in a stupid standoff situation.
Obviously Naniwa positioned his army correctly and targeted correctly, but it just feels wrong to me that you can be so behind in upgrades and still win an engagement so decisively just by getting 1 salvo correctly. It just reinforces my opinion that the colossus is the worst designed Unit in the entire game.
Archons were the real hero in the battle imo, and they don't benefit at all from armour upgrades, so the result wasn't that surprising at all. Max attack and better unit composition is much more important.
Edit: also, i think during the battle it was 2-2, 3-3 hadn't finished so i'd give the upgrade advantage to Nani being at 3-1.
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On July 05 2012 01:15 Tula wrote:
Without any comment regarding wether anyone deserved to loose or not (frankly they both made mistakes) I find it retarded that the 3/3 army can loose a battle in 3 seconds against the 3/1 army. Frankly strictly as an observer (I have never played protoss above gold league) PVP is a very strange matchup culminating in a stupid standoff situation.
Obviously Naniwa positioned his army correctly and targeted correctly, but it just feels wrong to me that you can be so behind in upgrades and still win an engagement so decisively just by getting 1 salvo correctly. It just reinforces my opinion that the colossus is the worst designed Unit in the entire game.
Ok so if Terran A attack-commands his 3/3 Marines in to Terran B's 3/1 siege tank line, you expect the marines to win? The game isn't just upgrades - it's about positioning and unit composition as well. Nani had better unit comp and position and realistically he had better upgrades anyway because he had range. It's nothing to do with the match-up.
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You are my hero nAni :D Awsome job once again reaching the r8 in this stupidly stacked tournament. Such a boss.
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On July 04 2012 23:17 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 23:16 Koshi wrote:If only Nestea had a shot taking first tomorrow  . watch him 4-0 the group. He's coming for Naniwa
Well, Artosis already cursed his beloved, so we'll see.
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congrats Nani! trying ur best and succeeding is great I dont know why everyones trying to take away from his win [if only to say if this didnt happen if that didnt happen etc etc]. Remember people make mistakes, Nani didnt and thats what eventually won him the spot to Ro8
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On July 05 2012 01:19 -TesteR- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 01:15 Tula wrote:
Without any comment regarding wether anyone deserved to loose or not (frankly they both made mistakes) I find it retarded that the 3/3 army can loose a battle in 3 seconds against the 3/1 army. Frankly strictly as an observer (I have never played protoss above gold league) PVP is a very strange matchup culminating in a stupid standoff situation.
Obviously Naniwa positioned his army correctly and targeted correctly, but it just feels wrong to me that you can be so behind in upgrades and still win an engagement so decisively just by getting 1 salvo correctly. It just reinforces my opinion that the colossus is the worst designed Unit in the entire game. Archons were the real hero in the battle imo, and they don't benefit at all from armour upgrades, so the result wasn't that surprising at all. Max attack and better unit composition is much more important. Edit: also, i think during the battle it was 2-2, 3-3 hadn't finished so i'd give the upgrade advantage to Nani being at 3-1.
Both had the same amount of archons, but Naniwa had two more immortals, didn't lose a single one in that battle, I think. The colossi range upgrade was just icing on the cake.
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So much bitching about the naniwa games, when the real thing to check out today was how much of a monster GhostKing has become. Cant wait for r8
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On July 04 2012 23:23 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 23:19 scares wrote:
why do people say Genius "only forgot Thermal lance" thats like someone telling Robben he "only missed a penalty" in the Champions league final.
Im trying to say, it is a HUGE mistake therefore it kinda makes sense, that he lost? We're not saying it isn't Genius's fault, in fact, he deserved to lose a game like that for making that mistake; but it wasn't anything that Naniwa had control over, Naniwa didn't initiate any godly strategy or anything to make Genius not upgrade Thermal lance. So some of us are just telling the people going "omgz!! Naniwa godly micro!! so good!!" to chill out, he was literally behind the whole game, and won because of Genius's rookie mistake.
It's empty rethoric when you and your crew steps up with the need to point out such things every time Nani or some foreigner wins a match. It is clear cut patterns when you go through the histories of certain posters.. patterns that makes any pointing out done by you guys worthy of little note.
A series is in large part two players trying to provoke each others to make more mistakes than themselves as well as trying to minimize mistakes made individually. The player that ends up having made least mistakes usually comes out as the winner at the end of the series. That Nani made less mistakes ment he won this series, he played better at the end of the day. Pointing out one of the mistakes Genius made is a usefull as pointing out that grass is green.. unless one is trying to take away from Nani's win, of course.
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On July 05 2012 01:03 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 00:57 -TesteR- wrote:On July 05 2012 00:49 Vardant wrote:On July 05 2012 00:39 -TesteR- wrote:What exactly am i supposed to be looking at to determine if he had range? Look at the upgrades on the right side, extended thermal lance is missing. At least that's what I think he means. Not sure if it actually shows. I'm not sure there is an icon for thermal though, isn't it supposed to be grayed out when it's not upgraded? Just tested it in unit test map, there is no icon showing up when you upgrade thermal lance in the collosi UI.
Heh, I was sure all upgrades showed up in the grid after upgrading. Seems like I had it all wrong.
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Wow checking the results to see if Naniwa made it was like checking to see if I won the lotto. And I won :D
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On July 05 2012 01:44 Douillos wrote:
So much bitching about the naniwa games, when the real thing to check out today was how much of a monster GhostKing has become. Cant wait for r8
You sure Byun played today? Based on this LR thread I swear it was just Naniwa and Genius playing in this group...
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Byun did great today also grats to Nani for getting the win  .
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Byun's play in game 2 vs Genius was inspirational. But Toss just won
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I just watched the VOD, and I believe that Genius did have range.
edit:
Maybe not, I am not sure xD
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xwzBC.jpg)
edit2:
I believe this is Genius max range.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yWGmR.jpg)
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France9034 Posts
On July 05 2012 01:44 Douillos wrote:
So much bitching about the naniwa games, when the real thing to check out today was how much of a monster GhostKing has become. Cant wait for r8
Waaaaaaay much more interesting to flame/troll/bitch about Nani and luck than watching the potential return of one of the best Terrans from early 2011.
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Bit late, but Congrats nani! I got my ultimate liquibet right but I didn't think genius would beat nani.
In every set, the Guy who won the first set won the series 
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On July 05 2012 02:15 Deckkie wrote:I just watched the VOD, and I believe that Genius did have range. edit: Maybe not, I am not sure xD
That is really hard to judge.
Would love to have clear confirmation either way.
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On July 05 2012 02:22 Ctuchik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 02:15 Deckkie wrote:I just watched the VOD, and I believe that Genius did have range. edit: Maybe not, I am not sure xD That is really hard to judge. Would love to have clear confirmation either way.
Well I don't know if this counts as confirmation, but in the post-game interview Naniwa was asked the question: "Genius didn’t get the colossus range upgrade in Set 3 of the final match. Were you aware?" So I'm pretty sure that he didn't have it. Perhaps it was shown more clearly on the Korean stream?
Interview here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=350320
Edit: Besides, looking at the picture I would definitely say that he did not have range. Notice how none of the colossus in the back row is firing, even though they (as far as I can see) should be in range.
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Damn Naniwa what a boss. Getting to the round 8 8 of GSL Code S two times in a row is impressive.
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EPT
