When: Tuesday, Jun 26 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also rebroadcast repeatedly afterwards!)
Format
This double-elimination tournament features 24 teams from around the world and is an All-Kill team format. This match is being played for Winners Round 3. The first team to defeat everyone on the opposing team's roster (5 wins, or a best of 9), will move on in the Winners Bracket, while the loser will drop down to Losers Round 3. Keep in mind that this has a $20,000 prize pool, and only six teams will make it to the money!
Team Liquid HayprO Sheth Ret TLO Zenio TaeJa Jinro NonY HerO
I'm a huge fan of both teams, and whoever comes out on top is fine with me . But if I have to choose, then I'll root for Liquid (Prime won the last time xD)
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Right because..... Prime is unstoppable right? No foreign team could ever beat them :/ Psh...... let's try putting Prime against Fnatic and see what happens. Oh.... wait......
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Just to provide some perspective, Acer took Prime to 5-4 in WR2, just one round before this, and I think it's plain to see that they have a lot less depth than Liquid.
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Right because..... Prime is unstoppable right? No foreign team could ever beat them :/ Psh...... let's try putting Prime against Fnatic and see what happens. Oh.... wait......
Fnatic definitely played a lot of foreign players =p
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Right because..... Prime is unstoppable right? No foreign team could ever beat them :/ Psh...... let's try putting Prime against Fnatic and see what happens. Oh.... wait......
The difference is fnatic can't give two free wins by sending out a foreigner though :p.
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Right because..... Prime is unstoppable right? No foreign team could ever beat them :/ Psh...... let's try putting Prime against Fnatic and see what happens. Oh.... wait......
As previously said, Acer did take Prime to the brink just last round and by all rights should have won the match (Up 4-2 with Elfi, Nerchio still there)
Pretty sure Liquid has a chance. Recall the TLOwnage vs Prime last time, plus Liquid has Sheth, Zenio, Ret, Taeja, and Hero (in increasing order of strength, as of late).
On June 27 2012 03:43 Mirhi wrote: As previously said, Acer did take Prime to the brink just last round and by all rights should have won the match (Up 4-2 with Elfi, Nerchio still there)
How often would that actually happen if Prime and Acer played a set of 50?
On June 27 2012 03:43 Mirhi wrote: As previously said, Acer did take Prime to the brink just last round and by all rights should have won the match (Up 4-2 with Elfi, Nerchio still there)
How often would that actually happen if Prime and Acer played a set of 50?
I imagine at least 30% of the time, especially now that they have Scarlett.
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Right because..... Prime is unstoppable right? No foreign team could ever beat them :/ Psh...... let's try putting Prime against Fnatic and see what happens. Oh.... wait......
The difference is fnatic can't give two free wins by sending out a foreigner though :p.
On June 27 2012 03:43 Mirhi wrote: As previously said, Acer did take Prime to the brink just last round and by all rights should have won the match (Up 4-2 with Elfi, Nerchio still there)
How often would that actually happen if Prime and Acer played a set of 50?
I imagine at least 30% of the time, especially now that they have Scarlett.
We don't know how long it would take for the Korean to download Scarlett. I doubt Bly will repeat his performance 30% of the time.
On June 27 2012 03:43 Mirhi wrote: As previously said, Acer did take Prime to the brink just last round and by all rights should have won the match (Up 4-2 with Elfi, Nerchio still there)
On June 27 2012 05:16 Slardar wrote: Rooting for Liquid forsure.......won't be any MKP or Creator all-kills since the starters for each team are: Zenio + Annyeong.
Liquid has a chance no doubt, they have to be on the A-Game to damage control MKP, Byun, and Creator.
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Just to provide some perspective, Acer took Prime to 5-4 in WR2, just one round before this, and I think it's plain to see that they have a lot less depth than Liquid.
To be fair, Prime didnt even use Maru or Byun in the series against Acer and instead opted to use someone like salmosa. They still had 2 code S players the opted out of using so they didn't use their full depth.
On June 27 2012 08:07 Bumblebee wrote: I still like all of you even though close to zero has any faith in our abilities... Where is the love?
So much love
But i hate seeing TL drop 2 games to Annyeung :s .. And all things equal, based on current form, i don't see MKP losing, to anyone from any team except maybe DRG
Wow, people already calling it quits for TL just because of the 0-2? No offense to zenio or haypro, but they aren't exactly the allstars of liquid, and even though zenio's korean his play hasn't been that impressive lately. Remember, TLO 3-killed prime, and that 3-kill included Annyung; include taeja and hero, two code S power houses, Ret, who has slain a number of koreans and recently [spoilers]qualified for TSL4 by winning the most recent qualifier[/spoilers], and Sheth, who is known for being a boss in online team leagues with his all-kills.
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Right because..... Prime is unstoppable right? No foreign team could ever beat them :/ Psh...... let's try putting Prime against Fnatic and see what happens. Oh.... wait......
Don't tell me zerosc2 hacked your account...
On June 27 2012 03:43 Mirhi wrote: As previously said, Acer did take Prime to the brink just last round and by all rights should have won the match (Up 4-2 with Elfi, Nerchio still there)
should, could, would, whatever. the fact is, they didn't, and until a win happens, 'should' does not really exist. Prime was down 2-4 with Creator still there. Down 2-4 with Creator still left is stronger than up 4-2 with elfi and nerchio left, i'd say.
This is my guess. when those corrupts FF on the Carriers , (which they will normally win easy), they will have to clump up together to FF, then he will just Archon toilet them all.
idk why Hero doesnt just push with his whole army, he lands one vortex and it's over, or even just storms with his carriers will beat all the corruptors, idk whats up with all these inefficient trades.
On June 27 2012 09:09 Zath.erin wrote: idk why Hero doesnt just push with his whole army, he lands one vortex and it's over, or even just storms with his carriers will beat all the corruptors, idk whats up with all these inefficient trades.
Hero is being a bit too careful..I think he could have ended this a while ago. If the corruptors go for your carriers you vortex and throw your archons in then they all die, carriers kill everything else.
On June 27 2012 09:08 TheDougler wrote: Neuralling the carriers changes things fast as well.
You can't really neural though, if you try the infestor melts to interceptors before the animation even finishes.
On June 27 2012 09:09 Zath.erin wrote: idk why Hero doesnt just push with his whole army, he lands one vortex and it's over, or even just storms with his carriers will beat all the corruptors, idk whats up with all these inefficient trades.
Even with that many infestors he's had a lot of opportunities push imo.
Yeah, hero's been a bit overcautious, he might've created a problem by prolonging the game too long and outmining annyung, while not having better cost-efficiency...
Hero definitely should have ended it a while ago. Now he's on 2 gas with only 2 archons, and a good neural or a bad vortex could give annyung the edge in the final battle.
Annyeong all-kill would be a little embarrassing. Not that he's bad; but at least three players on liquid should be significantly better on a decent day.
Btw - I'm sure you guys have noticed by this point but carriers' AI was changed a few patches ago, interceptors stick to a target for a while when you move command the carrier.
imo hero can´t win this game he lost his momentum. Now the zerg army is way more cost efficient.... and they have split he whole map 50/50 ... as the result zerg wins...
On June 27 2012 09:22 Dodgin wrote: Can't believe Hero lost this game...too passive.
He wasn't too passive, he was too aggressive. He made horrible trades over and over to kill useless tech structures when he could have just done one push to win the game.
On June 27 2012 09:22 Dodgin wrote: Can't believe Hero lost this game...too passive.
He wasn't too passive, he was too aggressive. He made horrible trades over and over to kill useless tech structures when he could have just done one push to win the game.
i dont understand heros thought process there. He threw so much gas away and annyung just sat back and let him throw the game away. That game was weird.
You really can't go carrier as a support unit, you need to start making the transition to full out only carrier. And high templars for feedback and stuff. Come on hero......
If he had like 7 more carriers with psi storm there's no way to beat that as zerg. Instead he just sent waves of zealots that were doomed to be fungaled. He should've been doing warp prisms and taking out tech structures.
Hero should have pushed when he caught all of those infestors for free and took out like 6-7 bls in the middle with mere stalkers. Should'vej ust remaxed on huge stalker army, not given a fuck if his carriers died, and just rolled annyung...
On June 27 2012 09:23 Killmouse wrote: zerg= defend defend defend defend until the whole map is mined out -> win
hero threw that game so hard... he was playing so well but just messed up the big engagements so badly: wasting energy on recall, clumping up carriers, missing vortexes, lacking the right number of archons. It was just all a train wreck for Hero
On June 27 2012 09:21 SpiralCompass wrote: Wow.... how did HerO manage to get into this position from that dominant midgame?
He made carriers
and then didn't use them well. What killed him was the templar drops imho. He traded Gas which he sorely needed for minerals (drones). It might have been effective, but in the end the 3k Gas he "used" in that way were sorely missing.
Also he should have camped that base until the end, he had the dominant army, no reason to let anyung take that if it is the last base on the map.
On June 27 2012 09:22 Seiferz wrote: awww hero threw it away :/
Didn't really threw it away. You just can't beat a t3 zerg army that is played well. well gg
I have no idea where you get that impression from. But mothership + a massive amount of stalkers + archons mixed with a couple of HTs will definitely crush the latest of late Zerg armies.
Carriers aren't bad, but when you overinvest into them, they're no good. You can't just mass one unit and dominate SC2. Genius made the same mistake vs DRG. If Hero made like 6 Carriers and then had the same Archon, Blink Stalker Colossus ball, he would have been fine I think.
I cannot believe just how bad HerO was that game. He basically had the game in the bag, but constantly screwed up engagements. TL is looking fairly boned losing HerO.
On June 27 2012 09:22 Dodgin wrote: Can't believe Hero lost this game...too passive.
He wasn't too passive, he was too aggressive. He made horrible trades over and over to kill useless tech structures when he could have just done one push to win the game.
he did make horrible trades, but it was too passive more for the carriers. I mean hero got 3/3 for them, and made like 20+ of them which is probably like..5k+ gas or something idk.
It was more of hero trying to show off, and he fucking lost for it.
Hero destroyed annyoung for 30 minutes then literally stopped playing, like he was recalling and attacking everywhere then decided that making tea and randomly sending 5 units at a time into spines and infestors was the correct way to win? Pretty sure 90% of non-pro players could win that game if you gave it to them at 30 mins in
On June 27 2012 09:22 Seiferz wrote: awww hero threw it away :/
Didn't really threw it away. You just can't beat a t3 zerg army that is played well. well gg
I have no idea where you get that impression from. But mothership + a massive amount of stalkers + archons mixed with a couple of HTs will definitely crush the latest of late Zerg armies.
HerO's mistake was carriers.
you guys are all wrong, carrier archon templar is the ultimate PvZ composition, hero just played badly.
On June 27 2012 09:22 Seiferz wrote: awww hero threw it away :/
Didn't really threw it away. You just can't beat a t3 zerg army that is played well. well gg
I have no idea where you get that impression from. But mothership + a massive amount of stalkers + archons mixed with a couple of HTs will definitely crush the latest of late Zerg armies.
HerO's mistake was carriers.
The idea is from every lategame ZvP where the zerg isn't a foreigner.
I agree carriers didn't really work well, but what would have really in that siutation? Excluding an absolutely perfect vortex, what can P really do against late game brood/infestors? HerO probably overcommitted to that tech, but I can;t really see a better alternative against split map zerg. WP to Annyung anyway.
The only reason hero lost that game was because he waited far too long at the end of it. Let annyueng get back into it by being able to mine all the bases that hero put so many resources into harassing earlier in the game. I just kept yelling at hero to attack (. Obviously amazing play and decisions except for that.
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
On June 27 2012 09:26 Zacsafus wrote: Hero destroyed annyoung for 30 minutes then literally stopped playing, like he was recalling and attacking everywhere then decided that making tea and randomly sending 5 units at a time into spines and infestors was the correct way to win? Pretty sure 90% of non-pro players could win that game if you gave it to them at 30 mins in
There was never a time in that game as a masters toss that I felt like I could win that game in HerO's position if I was playing against the prime zerg. Defeating an infestor broodlord army controlled by a incredible zerg player is near impossible if you're not at their level. HerO threw the game away a bit, but at the same time it wasn't an easy win situation.
Im pretty sure that the mass recall play is exactly what hero needed to win the game, he was abusing annyung then jsut stopped and did nothing after that. Im not quite sure why he just stopped playing
On June 27 2012 09:23 Slardar wrote: I COME BACK FROM DINNER BEING LIKE OK....... HerO has this 100% and I COME BACK TO "AND ANNYEONG WINS!!" ........
WHAT THE HELL?!!!
The guy invests in 30 corruptors......just mass stalker and kill him.
He can't, not with all those FG ready to use on the stalkers. This is why late game PvZ will always end with how well a toss can use vortex vs a zerg stopping it. Hero tried changing the meta game up, but I'm not sure how you can in this end game PvZ type game.
TLDR: toss end game is OP with vortex, Zerg end game is OP with no vortex.
On June 27 2012 09:22 Seiferz wrote: awww hero threw it away :/
Didn't really threw it away. You just can't beat a t3 zerg army that is played well. well gg
I have no idea where you get that impression from. But mothership + a massive amount of stalkers + archons mixed with a couple of HTs will definitely crush the latest of late Zerg armies.
HerO's mistake was carriers.
The idea is from every lategame ZvP where the zerg isn't a foreigner.
huh? it happens all the time..Zerg gets BL/corrupter/infestor with maybe roachs/zerglings then the P gets archons/mass stalkers/mothership..gets a blink under the BL n then you watch like 6 archons kill 20 BL in 2 seconds.
On June 27 2012 09:26 Zacsafus wrote: Hero destroyed annyoung for 30 minutes then literally stopped playing, like he was recalling and attacking everywhere then decided that making tea and randomly sending 5 units at a time into spines and infestors was the correct way to win? Pretty sure 90% of non-pro players could win that game if you gave it to them at 30 mins in
There was never a time in that game as a masters toss that I felt like I could win that game in HerO's position if I was playing against the prime zerg. Defeating an infestor broodlord army controlled by a incredible zerg player is near impossible if you're not at their level. HerO threw the game away a bit, but at the same time it wasn't an easy win situation.
Im pretty sure that at around 36ish minutes Hero could have a moved with his carriers in one place and then recalled to the next and then vortex with the archons too, that would have been the easiest engagement, i mean the only vortex he landed, 10 of his carriers were elsewhere for no reason :/
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
On June 27 2012 09:28 Zath.erin wrote: Please don't use this game to balance cry, you'll only make your self look really foolish and uninformed. It's clear as day that hero threw that game.
On June 27 2012 09:23 Slardar wrote: I COME BACK FROM DINNER BEING LIKE OK....... HerO has this 100% and I COME BACK TO "AND ANNYEONG WINS!!" ........
WHAT THE HELL?!!!
The guy invests in 30 corruptors......just mass stalker and kill him.
He can't, not with all those FG ready to use on the stalkers. This is why late game PvZ will always end with how well a toss can use vortex vs a zerg stopping it. Hero tried changing the meta game up, but I'm not sure how you can in this end game PvZ type game.
TLDR: toss end game is OP with vortex, Zerg end game is OP with no vortex.
u mean zerg end game is op with no vortex, and a coin flip of OP or manageable with vortex
On June 27 2012 09:26 Zacsafus wrote: Hero destroyed annyoung for 30 minutes then literally stopped playing, like he was recalling and attacking everywhere then decided that making tea and randomly sending 5 units at a time into spines and infestors was the correct way to win? Pretty sure 90% of non-pro players could win that game if you gave it to them at 30 mins in
There was never a time in that game as a masters toss that I felt like I could win that game in HerO's position if I was playing against the prime zerg. Defeating an infestor broodlord army controlled by a incredible zerg player is near impossible if you're not at their level. HerO threw the game away a bit, but at the same time it wasn't an easy win situation.
No, there were plenty of times that Hero could have won that game, most obvious is when Annyung has like 8 infestors caught out of position and killed for free by a small gateway squad and when hero pushes the top left spines and finds 7 or so broodlords caught without support and kills them. All he had to do was warp in stalkers until he was maxed and pushed at that point and he would have won, there were only 6 broodlords and maybe 4 infestors total while hero had 3k in the bank, 10 or so carriers, and mothership.
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
I felt as though the recall was smart because it gave his carriers time to re build interceptors but i may be wrong
On June 27 2012 09:26 Zacsafus wrote: Hero destroyed annyoung for 30 minutes then literally stopped playing, like he was recalling and attacking everywhere then decided that making tea and randomly sending 5 units at a time into spines and infestors was the correct way to win? Pretty sure 90% of non-pro players could win that game if you gave it to them at 30 mins in
There was never a time in that game as a masters toss that I felt like I could win that game in HerO's position if I was playing against the prime zerg. Defeating an infestor broodlord army controlled by a incredible zerg player is near impossible if you're not at their level. HerO threw the game away a bit, but at the same time it wasn't an easy win situation.
Im pretty sure that at around 36ish minutes Hero could have a moved with his carriers in one place and then recalled to the next and then vortex with the archons too, that would have been the easiest engagement, i mean the only vortex he landed, 10 of his carriers were elsewhere for no reason :/
But this is all taking place on creep. So the infesters can get there to FG the toss army to lock it all down till the toss pulls out or the BL get there.
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
On June 27 2012 09:26 Zacsafus wrote: Hero destroyed annyoung for 30 minutes then literally stopped playing, like he was recalling and attacking everywhere then decided that making tea and randomly sending 5 units at a time into spines and infestors was the correct way to win? Pretty sure 90% of non-pro players could win that game if you gave it to them at 30 mins in
There was never a time in that game as a masters toss that I felt like I could win that game in HerO's position if I was playing against the prime zerg. Defeating an infestor broodlord army controlled by a incredible zerg player is near impossible if you're not at their level. HerO threw the game away a bit, but at the same time it wasn't an easy win situation.
No, there were plenty of times that Hero could have won that game, most obvious is when Annyung has like 8 infestors caught out of position and killed for free by a small gateway squad and when hero pushes the top left spines and finds 7 or so broodlords caught without support and kills them. All he had to do was warp in stalkers until he was maxed and pushed at that point and he would have won, there were only 6 broodlords and maybe 4 stalkers total while hero had 3k in the bank, 10 or so carriers, and mothership.
This. Hero could have won this game so very easily at many points, but for some reason he decided to try fancy stuff when there was no need to, any1 who wanted to win that game could have done with a simple produciton round and an a move
On June 27 2012 09:34 Irave wrote: Uphill battle now for TL. I think the combo of Taeja/TLO will be enough to make this close or a TL victory.
TLO? If someone can do something if/when TaeJa goes down it would just be Ret imo. Being down 0:3 against Prime with 2/3 of your Koreans down could also be called a loss already unfortunately. Still hoping though.
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
But this is all taking place on creep. So the infest can hit and run with FG while the corrupts tanks thr dmg from carriers.(which is like 40% less dmg). And the only unit that can hit the Zerg units are the Carriers, or over extending with blink stalkers.
This is why toss with a good vortex can own the end game zerg. But with out it, not so well.
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
But this is all taking place on creep. So the infest can hit and run with FG while the corrupts tanks thr dmg from carriers.(which is like 40% less dmg). And the only unit that can hit the Zerg units are the Carriers, or over extending with blink stalkers.
This is why toss with a good vortex can own the end game zerg. But with out it, not so well.
No, you siege up the spines and spores, keep your archons and templar out of range of them with your mothership close, if they move forward with their infestors you feedback, if they try to snipe carriers with a clump of corruptors you vortex and throw your archons in, then all their corruptors die and the carriers clean everything up. It's very very strong.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Hot_bid probably would have won it with the first push. Not sure why liquid doesnt send him out
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
haha thanks hot bid... i was going to respond but i couldn't get past just shaking my head
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
On June 27 2012 09:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Finally they kill Annyung >.<
Who's gonna be the fifth for Liquid? Ret? TLO? Jinro?
personally I would choose Ret. TLO next likely. All the remaining players for Prime that they should use (MKP, Maru, Byun, and Creator) are all very good vT so using Jinro while your current player out is a T seems kind of pointless.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Finally they kill Annyung >.<
Who's gonna be the fifth for Liquid? Ret? TLO? Jinro?
personally I would choose Ret. TLO next. All the remaining players for Prime that they should use (MKP, Maru, Byun, and Creator) are all very good vT so using Jinro while your current player out is a T seems kind of pointless.
Jinro is also in a major slump right now so I wouldn't use him either.
I'm really confused by Liquid's choice to send out Haypro, the guy on their team with the least amount of results. He can beat annyung on a good day, but he seems to never be on a good day o.0
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
I'll disagree. The only thing in your composition that can deal with infestors are the templar. And they wont get in range because of brood lords. Infestors will shred archon/mothership/carrier. Archons and carrier damage are both almost negated by fungals.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
Oh man I said that a long time ago. So true. MVP, MKP, and Terrans.
I think it really depends on who will beat Taeja for Prime. If a terran wins, then I think that TLO comes out. But if its 4-4 and creator is up for prime, Ret is the smart choice.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:52 CosmicSpiral wrote: Apparently Annyeong's TSL4 placement wasn't a fluke.
He's a bit inconsistent. He qualified for Code A this season but unfortunately he has to face MvPSniper in the first round who is top of the Korean ladder right now T_T
On June 27 2012 09:24 Dodgin wrote: lol at everyone in this thread saying carriers are bad, hero just didn't play it out correctly.
Pretty much this. If Hero just attacked with his carrier/archon/full energy mothership when he first got them he could of easily won. Instead he did all sorts of mini attacks and lost a ton of gas, including basically all of his archons leaving his mothership a whole hell of a lot less scary.
I didn't watch the game too closely, but I suspect something like this happened. Carrier mothership archon templar is pretty much unbeatable if you just straight up siege with the carriers instead of cute recall tactics, randomly losing stray carriers and archons.
I'll disagree. The only thing in your composition that can deal with infestors are the templar. And they wont get in range because of brood lords. Infestors will shred archon/mothership/carrier. Archons and carrier damage are both almost negated by fungals.
I encourage you to try it yourself, you will realize the strength of the composition if played correctly.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
Demuslim D:
There is significant skill gap there lol
But Taeja is doing work! Let's make this CW interesting! C'mon!
On June 27 2012 09:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Creator not last?
Taeja is such a boss!!! But let's be honest,the moment he falls (to Creator,Maru,Byun or MKP) Team Liquid is done for It's a pity Hero couldn't take a couple of maps.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
DRG would've won the game 5 minutes ago, and if this was BW Flash would've won with science vessels.
I don't really know the point of making statements like this lol
Its a backwards way of saying "taeja coulda microed that better" -_-
Just don't compare Marineking to other Terrans
there is Mvp, there is MKP, and then there is Terran.
Demuslim D:
what about him?
i want him to be top tier also =/
Demu is a great foreign Terran.... but he is nowhere near MKP/MVP level....
taeja gogogogo :D, hopefully he's hitting a hot streak after taking down annyung and b4, and then liquid will have a superb chance of winning (prime probably will send out byun and mkp last, but if taeja doesnt take them down, then tlo can snipe them with his zvt powers ).
On June 27 2012 10:16 Arctyrus wrote: If Liquid gets Maru and MKP comes out as the final boss. What would be liquids best option to take him out?
Ret has the strongest personal results, but TLO has had some outstanding team league appearances. Ret looked great today in TSL however. Its probably a toss-up between them taking down MKP.
That said, I'd probably go with TLO because LING IN THE NORTH
On June 27 2012 10:16 Arctyrus wrote: If Liquid gets Maru and MKP comes out as the final boss. What would be liquids best option to take him out?
Ret has the strongest personal results, but TLO has had some outstanding team league appearances. Ret looked great today in TSL however. Its probably a toss-up between them taking down MKP.
That said, I'd probably go with TLO because LING IN THE NORTH
I was thinking along the lines of TLO aswell since he has some flashes of brilliance. But hopefully TaeJa will make the all kill ^^
On June 27 2012 10:16 Arctyrus wrote: If Liquid gets Maru and MKP comes out as the final boss. What would be liquids best option to take him out?
Realistically, nobody. But you can always hope for a Ret or Sheth upset.
?
TLO beat MKP in TAC2.
That was before MKP's Godmode activated.
That's just not true. It was days before MKP won the Winter Arena and even less days before he all killed HoSeo, I can guarantee that he didn't become drastically better in that time. edit: Also the same time that he made it to the finals of FXO invitational 5 against DRG.
On June 27 2012 10:16 Arctyrus wrote: If Liquid gets Maru and MKP comes out as the final boss. What would be liquids best option to take him out?
Realistically, nobody. But you can always hope for a Ret or Sheth upset.
?
TLO beat MKP in TAC2.
That was before MKP's Godmode activated.
That's just not true. It was days before MKP won the Winter Arena and even less days before he all killed HoSeo, I can guarantee that he didn't become drastically better in that time. edit: Also the same time that he made it to the finals of FXO invitational 5 against DRG.
If people believe that TLO is favored or can consistently take down MKP right now that's fine with me. BO1 anything can happen i suppose, hopefully MKP doesn't die to some mid game mass zergling or whatever it was.
On June 27 2012 10:40 Dodgin wrote: I love high level TvT.
Was just going to say...... this is so fun to watch. My only quip, would be to say I'd love to see Taeja drop more little here and there since he's had the marine advantage for most of the game. Then again he's playing super safe, every time he's split up his army Maru has charged in / threatened to go all out.
On June 27 2012 10:40 Dodgin wrote: I love high level TvT.
Was just going to say...... this is so fun to watch. My only quip, would be to say I'd love to see Taeja drop more little here and there since he's had the marine advantage for most of the game. Then again he's playing super safe, every time he's split up his army Maru has charged in / threatened to go all out.
I don't think dropping is as easy to do in TvT because fights are so volatile and a very small difference in numbers can turn around a fight totally.
Damn, that was some surgical dissection of Maru's forces. He was attacking every base at once and winning every battle. Some of the better TvT play I've seen coming out of Teaja there.
On June 27 2012 10:40 Dodgin wrote: I love high level TvT.
Was just going to say...... this is so fun to watch. My only quip, would be to say I'd love to see Taeja drop more little here and there since he's had the marine advantage for most of the game. Then again he's playing super safe, every time he's split up his army Maru has charged in / threatened to go all out.
I don't think dropping is as easy to do in TvT because fights are so volatile and a very small difference in numbers can turn around a fight totally.
Yeah indeed, you really need some Flash level game analysis to say I'm ahead 10 marines, I can sacrifice 8 for harassment. As you said, every time TaeJa did split it up Maru charged in and capitalized. One hell of a game, GO LIQUID!
On June 27 2012 10:50 TheDougler wrote: Liquid isn't the only thing that is rising at the moment. I'm sitting down but giving Taeja a standing ovation.
I thought you were doing something else when you were rising . . .
On June 27 2012 10:50 TheDougler wrote: Liquid isn't the only thing that is rising at the moment. I'm sitting down but giving Taeja a standing ovation.
I thought you were doing something else when you said you were rising . . .
I hate when the observer sees possible engagements on the minimap, points it on the minimap with the mouse but still fking doesnt click on it and misses the action while pointing that there is a command center on the natural..........
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
I'm pretty sure IPLTAC wins go into International Elo so it wont affect his Korean Elo
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
Wow, fuckin Prime not playing Byun haha. Wanted to play on Zerg dominance, GRATS TO TAEJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And TL, very well done, sorry I missed the games, will definitely catch the reps when they're out.
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
Depends who gets out of group b in the ro16.
Oh, true... I guess IPL will count for the international rankings, not the Korean ones.
Will be a harsh day tomorrow for Taeja though...MVP and then either against his worst matchup (P) or vs Zerg, which kinda seems to be 30T-70Z in Korea after the Queen buff... =/
On June 27 2012 11:07 Talaris wrote: I guess after those 5 wins (against #5, #14 and 3 players in the Top 40) Taeja will be back to #1 Spot of the Elo rankings ^^
It's a silly ELO, though.
It;s funny that people talk down about the ELO but when you look at it it shows who is doing best right now quite well.
1. Squirtle 2. TaeJa 3. Symbol 4. Life 5. MarineKing
Other than Life the top 5 looks pretty damn stacked with people who are at the top of SC2 right now.
On June 27 2012 11:07 Lavalamp799 wrote: Hmm, I didn't catch the games but see that Taeja all-killed Prime. Kind of regretting voting against him in GSL ro16 now.
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
MKP would've played that last game better. I think if MKP takes over for TaeJa there, MKP wins that game 100%
On June 27 2012 09:40 Tayar wrote: mkp would have microed well and won that engagement.
it wasn't taeja's micro that cost him there, he was in a bad spot around his cc at his 4th and there wasn't much room to move or split. it was too late at that point
mkp would have managed it, just sayin'
MKP would've played that last game better. I think if MKP takes over for TaeJa there, MKP wins that game 100%
On June 27 2012 03:28 polyphonyEX wrote: That poll is ridiculously biased. Liquid almost even with the reining gstl champion Prime?
Shouldn't expect better given the site this thread is hosted on, but come on guys. I could easiy predict a Creator or Marineking all-kill.
Just to provide some perspective, Acer took Prime to 5-4 in WR2, just one round before this, and I think it's plain to see that they have a lot less depth than Liquid.
Jesus... Taeja... wow. I mean it isn't too surprising that he won against any of those players, but 5 in a row... JESUS! Well played Taeja, holy hell. This guy just seems to pull out a crazy result in team leagues every once in awhile.
On June 27 2012 10:45 Samura1Jack wrote: If Taeja all kills prime is Taeja marineking now? :O
no..? he would be one of the best Ts that he already is? (better than MKP)
Beating a player in a best of one does not necessarily make you better than that player.
doing better in the only league that matters does however (as well as beating him in a bo3 in said best sc2 league in the world)
if you arent aware of this thing called the gsl...
MKP beat taeja 5-1 last week. And mkp beat taeja in gsl too. It just so happened that taeja won the 2nd bo3, but they were 2-2 for the night.
Taeja still did better than MKP last season and when it really mattered he came out ahead did he not?
..all games matter in the group stage? But yeah, MarineKing started playing bad in the third game against Parting and didn't recover after that so Taeja won the second bo3.
On June 27 2012 10:45 Samura1Jack wrote: If Taeja all kills prime is Taeja marineking now? :O
no..? he would be one of the best Ts that he already is? (better than MKP)
Beating a player in a best of one does not necessarily make you better than that player.
doing better in the only league that matters does however (as well as beating him in a bo3 in said best sc2 league in the world)
if you arent aware of this thing called the gsl...
MKP beat taeja 5-1 last week. And mkp beat taeja in gsl too. It just so happened that taeja won the 2nd bo3, but they were 2-2 for the night.
Taeja still did better than MKP last season and when it really mattered he came out ahead did he not?
A lot of people have done better than MKP in GSL. Doesn't necessarily mean they're all better. Taeja is good no doubt, but he's yet to win an offline tourney or place high in one. He's been to enough MLGs and other foreign tourneys now to have proved himself there by now. Heck he was at a very weak dreamhack and still didn't win it or get a top 5.
On June 27 2012 10:45 Samura1Jack wrote: If Taeja all kills prime is Taeja marineking now? :O
no..? he would be one of the best Ts that he already is? (better than MKP)
Beating a player in a best of one does not necessarily make you better than that player.
doing better in the only league that matters does however (as well as beating him in a bo3 in said best sc2 league in the world)
if you arent aware of this thing called the gsl...
MKP beat taeja 5-1 last week. And mkp beat taeja in gsl too. It just so happened that taeja won the 2nd bo3, but they were 2-2 for the night.
Taeja still did better than MKP last season and when it really mattered he came out ahead did he not?
A lot of people have done better than MKP in GSL. Doesn't necessarily mean they're all better. Taeja is good no doubt, but he's yet to win an offline tourney or place high in one. He's been to enough MLGs and other foreign tourneys now to have proved himself there by now. Heck he was at a very weak dreamhack and still didn't win it or get a top 5.
I would say that a ro8 in gsl is pretty good, but yeah he hasn't done anything "huge". He lost to HerO in DH, no shame in that. No need to try and rationalize a loss. I am not even sure if he has been to an MLg either, but he qualified for the summer arena.
Holy Taeja. I kept hearing about how good he was but whenever I seemed to watch his games I didn't see anything special. Maybe I watched the wrong games because I don't watch GSL. My damn account doesn't work. Regardless, now I'm a believer.
Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy; he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know not how oft. Where be your gibes now? (Hamlet, V.i)
Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
First few pages of any LR are always hilarious. It's like a bunch of people that try to flaunt their Starcraft "knowledge" and how serious of a fan they are by cleverly predicting that a team/player with better odds to win will win. Then they end up being wrong roughly 30-40% of the time, as that's how often the less favored side wins on average.
I'm very disappointed that prime did not play the greatest player ever (The byunjwa), that was clearly their big mistake here oh well wp by taeja hopefully (Have not seen the games yet).
as a master toss heres how hero could have won that game
1) carriers/archon/mothership will lose the fight heavily if you amove and let the archons get attacked by spines
2) but carriers are a siege unit with 8 launch range. if you control correct you can slowly amove and pull back amove and pull back launching interceptors and killing spine crawlers
3) have your archon/mothership/templars 1 inch behind your carriers. if corrupters attack then you storm them. carrier+storm is not weak to corrupters and storms long range means if they are BEHIND the carriers the broodlords cannot attack the templars. you dont even need vortex
4) ideally you only want like 4 archons, mothership, some HT, everything else carriers. slowly siege the spine crawlers trading minerals (interceptors) to kill spine crawlers and inch forward
5) np doesnt really work well because with range 7 if corrupters engage and infestors NP the templars are likely storming over the infestors anyway
thats how hero could have won instead of letting a billion ht's, archons, and stalkers die in harassment he coulda made a unbeatable 200food army and crushed face
carriers with storm beat corrupters with fungal/np. it truly has no counter. how does zerg win? do not let a toss get 200food of pure carrier/storm. yes it is a unbeatable np doesnt even work because range 7 np range 8 carriers lol all the infestors get sniped in seconds and die in seconds to storm
however it really baffles me how hero didnt do that.... hero is a high GM calibur protoss how the hell did hero not now know this... ugh... i remember watching a PvZ in gstl 2-3 weeks ago i believe where a toss got mass carrier and played it properly and pwned face
On June 27 2012 16:54 andropopp wrote: thats how hero could have won instead of letting a billion ht's, archons, and stalkers die in harassment he coulda made a unbeatable 200food army and crushed face
I haven't seen the game, but Hero rarely plays that way. I don't know what his personal motivation behind his stylistic preferences is, but I'm kinda happy he sticks to them most of the time.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
Yea, nice notice, as koreans didnt win a single game today.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
It's difficult to really consider either a foreign team now though when most of their notable wins are from their korean players haha
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Taeja missed the first set in the GSTL, but in the second set, Hero/Taeja/Zenio were complete. :-)
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
Then again, how do we define what is a foreign team anymore? Is a team like Complexity, led by a Korean lineup of Killer, Ganzi, and Heart, still considered foreign? How about Fnatic? Nowadays, there just isn't a definitive way to define a foreign team anymore.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
Then again, how do we define what is a foreign team anymore? Is a team like Complexity, led by a Korean lineup of Killer, Ganzi, and Heart, still considered foreign? How about Fnatic? Nowadays, there just isn't a definitive way to define a foreign team anymore.
Well for starter. Liquid is not a full foreign team but they used to be. All foreign team are not " foreign " anymore with the exception of a few team(mousports,etc).
I find it funny some people in this thread claimed that Liquid is the best foreign team when all the notable wins come from their Korean counterpart.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
I don't know mate, cutting it close. HerO and Taeja are top notch players, but beyond that...
Ret's not bad, pretty solid player by foreigner standards. Liquid has done pretty well in some of the foreign online teamleagues, and sometimes when it comes to individual tournaments you only need 1 or 2 really solid players (IM with MVP and Nestea).
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
Then again, how do we define what is a foreign team anymore? Is a team like Complexity, led by a Korean lineup of Killer, Ganzi, and Heart, still considered foreign? How about Fnatic? Nowadays, there just isn't a definitive way to define a foreign team anymore.
Well for starter. Liquid is not a full foreign team but they used to be. All foreign team are not " foreign " anymore with the exception of a few team(mousports,etc).
I find it funny some people in this thread claimed that Liquid is the best foreign team when all the notable wins come from their Korean counterpart.
So, if we follow your logic, Real Madrid is not a spanish team, because the most important players in the team are not spanish... The team is foreign cuz its management is foreign.
On June 27 2012 23:51 Bagration wrote: If those teams have no business being on a list of top teams, it would be hard to make a similar case for Liquid :p
Not so hard if one can actually count.
Zenex might have beaten TL half of TL once, but TL is outperforming them in GSL in the last few seasons, which I would say is quite impressive given that Zenex is fully based in Korea and all their players have constant access to KR ladder, qualifiers, and all that stuff.
The other 3 teams are quite solid, but their collective results are merely a dip in the ocean (notable results in one, maybe two events during their entire SC2 history). Liquid has 2+ years of consistent top placements and GSL results. Liquid could disband today and it would take like a year for some of these teams to catch up.
If you're predicting the future team performances based on perceived strength of the team, that's an entirely different discussion.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
Dang taeja is a beast!. that was an awesome series and it ended with one of the best player match ups out there (at least in my opinion), and there was also that epic hero anyoeng games, so great series over all!. team liquid just proved that their korean front line is as good as anyone out there, even vrs the defending gstl champions top line up. If tl gets another performance like that from taeje and hero and zenio play up to form, they have a shot vs any sc2 team in the world. Tl and teaja fighting!
those are the teams that I think can take on tl with a good shot to win when tl has all its players available, only fanatic is is up there in terms of talent amongst foreign teams. tl has two top notch ace level players, a code a/s border;ine player and three zergs who like they could stand a chance in code a, for such a small line up that looks pretty dang strong. This is a kind of opinion based argument, applying to myself as much as anyone else, but the fact it that tl is with out a doubt the best foreign team in the ip tac 3. that is the only thing that can be said with certainty due to this thread and those results. i think tl is ret and sheth going to Korea, and one more high level player (c'mon supernova or genius) from being a gstl threat, but that is a matter of opinion until proven or disprove.
Again, this is opinion base atm and will this result only proves that tl is looking really strong in this one team league.
On June 27 2012 15:02 USvBleakill wrote: Awesome to see that Liquid is clearly the best foreign team. With a little luck, which is always a factor (look at GSTL Finals with the MKP thing) they can beat every team.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't watch/follow GSTL? Because Liquid got embarrassed this season. They were horrible. Fnatic looks like a much a stronger team.
Don't be silly. Playing with only half a team, without 2 or 3 of your top players, in the biggest team league in the world basically means you're going to lose terribly, whoever you are (even more so if you're a tiny team to begin with). You can blame the management for that fiasco (I do), but GSTL definitely didn't reflect the quality of the whole team.
Also, GSTL isn't the only event in the world (or in Korea). Liquid has the best overall performance and results in Korea out of all foreign teams combined. Unless you want to count FXO, in which case yeah, they top this category hands down.
Definitely don't think Liquid is doing that well among the foreign teams. They may be the best, but they aren't doing better than all the other foreign teams combined.
I said in Korea specifically Liquid's better than all the other foreign teams combined (including Fnatic and coL). That's obviously no longer the case when you add in results in tournaments worldwide.
On the other hand, Korean leagues are still the premier proving grounds in Starcraft, so that little bit of data still carries some weight.
I will say this: Liquid has gone a long way over the past few months, and they are looking good. I still think that they lack depth still, but they are a very strong team now, I'd say top 10 in the world.
I don't know mate, cutting it close. HerO and Taeja are top notch players, but beyond that...
Why are you listing a ton of teams that Liquid has owned in team leagues? Liquid went 4-5 against FXO in IPLTAC2 and beat FXO twice in NASTL, beat EG in both NASTL and IPLTAC2, went 4-5 against Prime IPLTAC2 and just beat Prime in IPLTAC3, beat TSL in IPLTAC2, completely routed Mouz in IPLTAC3 and beat them in finals of NASTL, and beat Empire and Quantic in NASTL. They are easily in the top 10 teams.
Beyond HerO and Taeja, Liquid's players have scored plenty of key wins. Sheth and Zenio have both all-killed (Sheth and Haypro single handedly taking down a team), and both have proven themselves to be quite capable and scoring a lot of wins in team leagues, while TLO 3-killed vs Prime in IPLTAC2, Ret is always solid, etc.
Yes, GSTL was a bummer, but they were going in with a skeleton crew - it doesn't matter how good your players are when you have the bare minimum players, because teams can then easily prep you out and snipe your players. Missing Ret and Sheth really hurt, and they were also missing Taeja in the first set, too.
EPT
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HayprO
TaeJa
NonY![[image loading]](http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1028/primenewicon.png)
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. But if I have to choose, then I'll root for Liquid (Prime won the last time xD)
Where is the love?
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