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On June 24 2012 01:31 Andr3 wrote:
Carriers, why no carriers Nightend? It's awesome vs endgame Z, HTs+carriers :[
SlayerSCrank used it nicely in his games..
Well played between Bigs&Nightend though!
carriers?
LOL. ever fought against queen corrupter infestor spore crawler with carriers? there is no way, NO way to beat the Z combo if he has only 40 drones and stays passive oO
€: ty grubby.
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On June 24 2012 01:30 KalWarkov wrote:
This is why no protoss ever wants to play a standard PvZ lategame. you cannot beat spine spore queen corrupter infestor broodlord. there is no way to even trade with half the effeciency of the zerg.
Watching that though, Nightend didn't abuse the lack of mobility that Zerg army had at all. He waited until way to late to sacrifice probes. He built a warp prism and didn't do anything with it. He didn't add on 15 more gateways and then send groups of blink stalkers around to cripple Bigs's production. He just sat there and let bigs get in the best position possible so that no vortex could really cause damage and so that his engage would have to come in contact with spines. That Zerg army is incredibly hard to defeat, but it's impossible if you just sit there and let the Zerg get in the best position humanly possible.
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On June 24 2012 01:34 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:30 KalWarkov wrote:
This is why no protoss ever wants to play a standard PvZ lategame. you cannot beat spine spore queen corrupter infestor broodlord. there is no way to even trade with half the effeciency of the zerg. Watching that though, Nightend didn't abuse the lack of mobility that Zerg army had at all. He waited until way to late to sacrifice probes. He built a warp prism and didn't do anything with it. He add on 15 more gateways and then send groups of blink stalkers around to cripple Bigs's production. He just sat there and let bigs get in the best position possible so that no vortex could really cause damage and so that his engage would have to come in contact with spines. That Zerg army is incredibly hard to defeat, but it's impossible if you just sit there and let the Zerg get in the best position humanly possible.
true, but its kind of hard on daybreak to do so. he chills on his xel naga and the only vulnerable bases are the top "4th" and the mainbase.
smart zergs put 4 spores and 10 spines at each of those and u cant do anything basically. no way to blink in on daybreak either. you can do stuff like that on antiga, agreed.
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seeing Nightend giving an interview on take.tv and playing vs bigs at ESL.tv. - What kind of sorcery is this? 
Gotta say Bigs really played very patient but that was the way to go this game, nice job.
Also, go Monchi!
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On June 24 2012 01:35 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:34 Swords wrote:On June 24 2012 01:30 KalWarkov wrote:
This is why no protoss ever wants to play a standard PvZ lategame. you cannot beat spine spore queen corrupter infestor broodlord. there is no way to even trade with half the effeciency of the zerg. Watching that though, Nightend didn't abuse the lack of mobility that Zerg army had at all. He waited until way to late to sacrifice probes. He built a warp prism and didn't do anything with it. He add on 15 more gateways and then send groups of blink stalkers around to cripple Bigs's production. He just sat there and let bigs get in the best position possible so that no vortex could really cause damage and so that his engage would have to come in contact with spines. That Zerg army is incredibly hard to defeat, but it's impossible if you just sit there and let the Zerg get in the best position humanly possible. true, but its kind of hard on daybreak to do so. he chills on his xel naga and the only vulnerable bases are the top "4th" and the mainbase. smart zergs put 4 spores and 10 spines at each of those and u cant do anything basically. no way to blink in on daybreak either. you can do stuff like that on antiga, agreed.
30 Blink stalkers that you can immediately remake with your 30 warpgates can definitely do plenty of damage in that scenario. Even a mix of Zealots and DTs warped in and then targeting the spores could've done damage. Nightend destroyed the 4th used recall, and then basically invited the Zerg to do whatever he pleased.
Note: I'm not trying to say it was going to be easy for Nightend to execute this or for him to win even with that pressure. That being said I think he has to try in that situation instead of just sitting around.
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On June 24 2012 01:33 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:31 Andr3 wrote:
Carriers, why no carriers Nightend? It's awesome vs endgame Z, HTs+carriers :[
SlayerSCrank used it nicely in his games..
Well played between Bigs&Nightend though! carriers? LOL. ever fought against queen corrupter infestor spore crawler with carriers? there is no way, NO way to beat the Z combo if he has only 40 drones and stays passive oO €: ty grubby.
No way? Queens? Spore crawlers? If Nightend made a switch during the passive phase Bigs wouldn't been able to prepare like that. Carriers are awesome, you can snipe infestors with them and with HT support it makes it even harder for him to fungal while he has to split unless he gets eaten by storm/vortex which in turn makes your carriers more effective because you can manuever around and try to snipe..
As I said Crank used them adequately in his games, and he stated that protosses should invest more into carriers, and I agree with him. Carriers underused!
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On June 24 2012 01:30 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:30 Al Bundy wrote:
Nightend had 15k minerals, 3k gas, while the zerg was at about 4-5k minerals.
Why didn't he make like 30 gateways, push, then remax then push again, rince & repeat because he wouldve killed 20 supply and lost 100.
or he would have stayed at 170 supply and delayed the push, just like he did. While 2 speed prism float the zerg bases with 13 zealots constantly. Like a toss should do in this situation, if they overcommit on infestors. Later on you speed in from two sides and drop hts and feedback. You will most likey get 10+ infestors that way, unless you drop in the spines. And those suicide prisms really do well in wearing down the zerg if they have no bases left. Zerg deathball is just to slow to win against a toss on a big map.
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just wow nightend... 2month in fnatic house like 100%better...
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No air, no warp prism zealot/dt harass, Nightend playing so 2011. And as much as i love Grubby he's whining too much today lol ^^
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sexy eye roll by nigthend
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On June 24 2012 02:02 -Kira wrote:
No air, no warp prism zealot/dt harass, Nightend playing so 2011. And as much as i love Grubby he's whining too much today lol ^^
u rly know ur stuff. LOL
what are u gonna harass? Z just sits on his 3 base and takes the middle, camping on the xel naga. nightend has 3 base and cant ever take a 4th. u gonna sacrifice prism and warpins to harass to exactly do what?
also, some spine/spore simply denie it.
grubby doesnt whine, grubby knows how broken ZvP is on most maps in lategame.
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Fantastic game! Really showed of both players multitasking, macro and micro. This is esports! ZvP ftw.
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On June 24 2012 02:04 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 02:02 -Kira wrote:
No air, no warp prism zealot/dt harass, Nightend playing so 2011. And as much as i love Grubby he's whining too much today lol ^^ u rly know ur stuff. LOL what are u gonna harass? Z just sits on his 3 base and takes the middle, camping on the xel naga. nightend has 3 base and cant ever take a 4th. u gonna sacrifice prism and warpins to harass to exactly do what? also, some spine/spore simply denie it. grubby doesnt whine, grubby knows how broken ZvP is on most maps in lategame.
Get a damn mothership.
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It's really hard for toss to deal with a Zerg army like that. However he should have tried to -
1) Make MANY stargates with bank (not enough money in antiga, but he should have done so on daybreak)
2) Air upgrades
3) Make many carriers + voids
4) Archons
5) HT
That's the only only way he could have stood a chance 
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It's good we hear real pro opinions on balance lately.
Hearing those over-hyped pretentious and obnoxious, medium-high master at very best, GSL casters got on my nerves lately.
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On June 24 2012 02:04 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 02:02 -Kira wrote:
No air, no warp prism zealot/dt harass, Nightend playing so 2011. And as much as i love Grubby he's whining too much today lol ^^ u rly know ur stuff. LOL what are u gonna harass? Z just sits on his 3 base and takes the middle, camping on the xel naga. nightend has 3 base and cant ever take a 4th. u gonna sacrifice prism and warpins to harass to exactly do what? also, some spine/spore simply denie it. grubby doesnt whine, grubby knows how broken ZvP is on most maps in lategame.
He had no spines or spores in his bases so you kill hatches, drones, tech and if he moves army out of position you can snipe opposite bases or spine walls when they are unprotected. Bigs had 5 bases not 3.
Imagine warp prism in the main, warp prism in the 3rd and stalkers sniping north bases. It was all unprotected.
But yea, keep mocking people on forums like a dick instead of being constructive and blame everything on imbalance instead of looking for solutions.
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All these guys complaining about the PvZ matchup... As a Protoss player myself I gotta say that your lack of faith disturbs me.
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On June 24 2012 02:10 -Kira wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 02:04 KalWarkov wrote:On June 24 2012 02:02 -Kira wrote:
No air, no warp prism zealot/dt harass, Nightend playing so 2011. And as much as i love Grubby he's whining too much today lol ^^ u rly know ur stuff. LOL what are u gonna harass? Z just sits on his 3 base and takes the middle, camping on the xel naga. nightend has 3 base and cant ever take a 4th. u gonna sacrifice prism and warpins to harass to exactly do what? also, some spine/spore simply denie it. grubby doesnt whine, grubby knows how broken ZvP is on most maps in lategame. He had no spines or spores in his bases so you kill hatches, drones, tech and if he moves army out of position you can snipe opposite bases or spine walls when they are unprotected. Bigs had 5 bases not 3. Imagine warp prism in the main, warp prism in the 3rd and stalkers sniping north bases. It was all unprotected. But yea, keep mocking people on forums like a dick instead of being constructive and blame everything on imbalance instead of looking for solutions.
In your league of play, I can imagine the Zerg not retreating/burrowing his drones nor transfusing the spire nor coming back fast enough with a few infestors/roaches.
Sadly, this is not the case of top foreign Zerg.
Grubby knows that on some maps, lategame PvT is imbalanced, and that Protoss has to rely on gimmicky timings.
He knew right at the beginning that NightEnd had no chance of winning since he did no midgame damage.
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Wow, i just read the liquipedia page on Kaeleris, did he wrote it himself? It was just like reading an ad.
Too bad Nightend lost, i hope he will win one the spot. He's a super nice guy.
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EPT
