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Dreamhack Summer [Day 3] - Page 289

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Starting on Page 125, asking if people are ok will result in bans.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
June 18 2012 22:00 GMT
#5761
DotA is the best game in its genre. It is LoL for adults.
I had a good night of sleep.
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
June 18 2012 22:00 GMT
#5762
On June 19 2012 06:59 SeaSwift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:53 Serinox wrote:


That's really cool


My god, I'm actually close to crying. I'm really tired, but it's just all these memories of DHW1 flooding back, and Naama and Mana battling it out.

Where did those days go... where did Naama go?

I want to see the SCV train again, I want to see the epic storms, I want to see the seige tanks in TvP.

<3 Naama, <3 Mana and <3 Dreamhack. :'(


Naama was/still is in Korea, right?
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 22:01:32
June 18 2012 22:01 GMT
#5763
On June 19 2012 06:59 mostevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:44 Tayar wrote:
i would like DOTA2 better if
A. I understood what was going on
B. It wasn't so fucking ugly - seriously, that's a NEW game?

Sums up my feelings too tbh. It looks like they haven't skinned the character models, one seemed to be just be a purple blob. They have gone all out on particle effects etc. though, which adds to my confusion as to whats going on as I can't recognise whos cast what but at least pretties it up some. (no different to storm/fungal if I didn't know sc2 I guess).

Now comon, lets get the sc2 going! I wanna hear another Dima victory roar!


Well... thats because Enigma is just simply a purple blob
[image loading]
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
June 18 2012 22:01 GMT
#5764
On June 19 2012 06:55 NexUmbra wrote:
Please guys lets have some more "SC2 is easier to watch/Dota 2 is easier to watch/LoL is easier to watch" posts which have no supporting evidence ;p


You mean to tell me passive aggressiveness and bitterness aren't supporting evidence?
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
June 18 2012 22:01 GMT
#5765
On June 19 2012 06:58 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:56 hyptonic wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:52 Fishgle wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:52 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:50 Drazerk wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:48 morlakaix wrote:
I don't understand how hardcore SC fans can bash dota.

I played dota for 6-7 years, and starcraft for 2-3 years.

Starcraft has way too many factors of luck, and sometimes you can lose a game PURELY based on luck because you scouted an all-in last, or you went for a macro build and someone decided to all in you. One miscontrol in SC2 can cause you to lose the game.

In dota, there isn't really a lot of luck. Winning has to do with teamwork and decision making, except the decision making is much harder because there are 4 others around you.

Even Pro starcraft players have said SC has too much of a luck factor, I don't see how the fans can't recognize that.


Ogre magi
CK
Mord
Sylla
Chen
Enchantress


All those heroes are pretty luck dependant and those are just the ones from the top of my head


Ok I sort of agree with the other 2, but those ones...what....

Jungle spawns are random. You can never depend on a Centaur at 0:30, you might get all Mud Golems and be completely fucked over early on.


what are you talking about? you can take a furbolg or a troll if you don't have a centaur


Or double wildkin!



Damn, Blizzard really pulled a number on us with the Hots-expansion, I don't recognize any of these units.
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
Bashion
Profile Joined February 2011
Cook Islands2612 Posts
June 18 2012 22:01 GMT
#5766
On June 19 2012 06:59 r00ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:53 HaXXspetten wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:51 L3g3nd_ wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:48 Fragile51 wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:47 Sp00ly wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:46 Klipsys wrote:
SC2 fans get mad when BW fans shit on SC2.
So they SC2 Fans shit on DOTA2 Fans, who then shit on LoL fans.



Who do the LoL fans shit on?


Quake live.

no one shits on quake live, quake live is an insanely tough and competitive game, second most skilled esport behind BW

^ This. Seriously though, watching QL first person blows my mind, anyone who says otherwise is just...


Ye, LoL shitting on QLive... That's the biggest insult i've ever read! (if i'd take it seriously ). Q3 pros were gods amongst men!


LOL fans shit on HON fans
I've got moves like Jagger
maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 22:03:44
June 18 2012 22:01 GMT
#5767
On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it

Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on.

To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using.


You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other.

Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you.

I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea.

I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base.

Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit).

Another problem is that micro-battles between units that die incredibly slowly are a chore to watch. WC3 was a great game, but watching pro-players duking it out was almost sleep inducing. There's nothing exciting happening on-screen because units die so friggin' slowly!
Dumboprime
Profile Joined March 2011
985 Posts
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5768
go Dimaga :D
trias_e
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States520 Posts
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5769
I played LoL for quite a bit when it first came out, and I can't even follow it now with all the new champs. Having no idea what any champion is capable of ruins the watching experience, and there's so damn many champs that it's constantly different and bewildering. If you've never played it at all it would just be even worse. God help you if you aren't a gamer at all and try to understand it. And for the non-gamers SC2 has direct analogues to actual warfare, MOBAs don't. It's not easy to explain SC2 to a non-gamer, but it's even harder to explain a MOBA.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 22:03:19
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5770
On June 19 2012 06:59 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:57 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:51 [17]Purple wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:50 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2.


SC2 is 10 times easier to watch.


any objective evidence to support that?

Common sense.

um... no

You think the game with 10 different players playing at once with tons of CPU controlled characters and where each character each has their own items is easier to watch than SC2? The casters screaming 80% of the game doesn't make it any easier to follow. I'm not saying Dota sucks or anything, just that SC2 is obviously easier to watch.


I'm sorry I've seen countless games where the LR thread is completely fooled by biased casters and actually don't end up knowing the final result so no it isn't that easy to watch unless your watching it at a neutral stand point and understand the game perfectly

That has nothing to do with how easy the game is to watch.


On June 19 2012 07:00 Shunjal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:57 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:51 [17]Purple wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:50 ZAiNs wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2.


SC2 is 10 times easier to watch.


any objective evidence to support that?

Common sense.

um... no

You think the game with 10 different players playing at once with tons of CPU controlled characters and where each character each has their own items is easier to watch than SC2? The casters screaming 80% of the game doesn't make it any easier to follow. I'm not saying Dota sucks or anything, just that SC2 is obviously easier to watch.


It can also be slow at times, with not a whole lot to watch, and unless you play SC you can't really understand the factors of macroing effectively and strategy in timings, etc. Big issue with viewing SC is the meta game being standard you see alot of games that mimic each other, not to mention alot of "one battle wins the game" type matches are pretty disappointing.

I'm only talking about how easy games are to watch. 'One big battle' type games are obviously some of the easiest games to watch.
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5771
On June 19 2012 06:58 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:56 hyptonic wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:52 Fishgle wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:52 Hassybaby wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:50 Drazerk wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:48 morlakaix wrote:
I don't understand how hardcore SC fans can bash dota.

I played dota for 6-7 years, and starcraft for 2-3 years.

Starcraft has way too many factors of luck, and sometimes you can lose a game PURELY based on luck because you scouted an all-in last, or you went for a macro build and someone decided to all in you. One miscontrol in SC2 can cause you to lose the game.

In dota, there isn't really a lot of luck. Winning has to do with teamwork and decision making, except the decision making is much harder because there are 4 others around you.

Even Pro starcraft players have said SC has too much of a luck factor, I don't see how the fans can't recognize that.


Ogre magi
CK
Mord
Sylla
Chen
Enchantress


All those heroes are pretty luck dependant and those are just the ones from the top of my head


Ok I sort of agree with the other 2, but those ones...what....

Jungle spawns are random. You can never depend on a Centaur at 0:30, you might get all Mud Golems and be completely fucked over early on.


what are you talking about? you can take a furbolg or a troll if you don't have a centaur


Or double wildkin!


Satyrs are the best because they look like rikimaru and rikimaru is OP trololol
Adron
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands839 Posts
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5772
in other news, the stream just dropped 20k in viewers :D but almost 40k is pretty good imho ^^
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5773
Def hoping for the mTw sweep.
mh_no_idea
Profile Joined April 2011
19 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 22:02:59
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5774
gosh how long does this take ? i think iam going to bed ZzzZz, what a terrible time for finals on a weekday. They could at least put some info on the screen whats up etc...
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7139 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 22:03:03
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5775
argh why delay for so long?

now i have to hate Dota 2 just because it takes precious sc2 stream time ...grrrr
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
June 18 2012 22:02 GMT
#5776
not so smart by dreamhack to wait so long. they lost 20k t_t
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
June 18 2012 22:03 GMT
#5777
On June 19 2012 07:00 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 06:59 r00ty wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:53 HaXXspetten wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:51 L3g3nd_ wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:48 Fragile51 wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:47 Sp00ly wrote:
On June 19 2012 06:46 Klipsys wrote:
SC2 fans get mad when BW fans shit on SC2.
So they SC2 Fans shit on DOTA2 Fans, who then shit on LoL fans.



Who do the LoL fans shit on?


Quake live.

no one shits on quake live, quake live is an insanely tough and competitive game, second most skilled esport behind BW

^ This. Seriously though, watching QL first person blows my mind, anyone who says otherwise is just...


Ye, LoL shitting on QLive... That's the biggest insult i've ever read! (if i'd take it seriously ). Q3 pros were gods amongst men!

I've never really watched it but I heard the quake games were some of the hardest games to play at a high level


You can't compare the games at all though. 5v5 is so much different from 1v1 competitively, it doesn't make sense to say that one or the other would be more difficult or less, since they have no overlap in game mechanics. LoL relies on teambased strategy, ban/picks and a relatively small amount of mechanical skill, whereas QL requires no teambased communication but has insanely intricate mechanics and very precise timings and strategy.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
June 18 2012 22:03 GMT
#5778
On June 19 2012 07:02 mh_no_idea wrote:
gosh how long does this take ? i think iam going to bed ZzzZz, what a terrible time for finals on a weekday. Thex could at least put some info on the screen whats up etc...


yeah what the heck!
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45410 Posts
June 18 2012 22:03 GMT
#5779
From OP:
Finals
17:15 EDT (-04:00) as soon as DOTA 2 ends Grand Final (BO5) - DreamArena Extreme
DIMAGA vs MANA


Sooooo....
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
June 18 2012 22:03 GMT
#5780
On June 19 2012 07:02 Adron wrote:
in other news, the stream just dropped 20k in viewers :D but almost 40k is pretty good imho ^^

I'm staying in because I like both games, but dota 2 more than sc2 :p
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