|
Starting on Page 125, asking if people are ok will result in bans. |
On June 19 2012 06:56 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. Simple as that. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. I'd say that a lot depends on the casters as well. The baseline conflict in SC 2 is obvious, but the baseline conflict is boring. Watching a Terran army clash with a Protoss army and the latter demolishing the former is exciting for the first few times, but without understanding the build orders, decisions, and maneuvering that resulted in that battle, it's just one blob rolling over another blob, which gets stale, fast. The same applies to Dota. The baseline conflict is not that hard to understand - because it's exactly the same as SC 2. Two armies are fighting each other and the goal is to kill the other's base. It happens that there are respawning heroes on each side who kill each other, and eventually one of those teams kill the other's base and wins. Simple. But that's not fun to watch - it's the intricacies that make the game a great viewing experience.
This.
Basing an opinion on a competitive scene on what someone who knows absolutely nothing about the video game understands about high level competitive play for the first time seeing the game is fucking stupid. I never thought I'd see something as painfully ironic and hypocritical even as a Starcraft community shitting on a game because it's too hard for them to understand.
|
On June 19 2012 06:53 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:51 L3g3nd_ wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 Fragile51 wrote:On June 19 2012 06:47 Sp00ly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:46 Klipsys wrote:
SC2 fans get mad when BW fans shit on SC2.
So they SC2 Fans shit on DOTA2 Fans, who then shit on LoL fans.
Who do the LoL fans shit on? Quake live. no one shits on quake live, quake live is an insanely tough and competitive game, second most skilled esport behind BW ^ This. Seriously though, watching QL first person blows my mind, anyone who says otherwise is just...
Ye, LoL shitting on QLive... That's the biggest insult i've ever read! (if i'd take it seriously  ). Q3 pros were gods amongst men!
|
I wish they would have something a little more entertaining/informative screen between the finals. Like some info when the games starts or something, now it looks like the finals are over already, how many will be mislead by this lack of information?
|
I suspect this might take a while with DIMAGA playing ZvP. 
|
On June 19 2012 06:44 Tayar wrote:i would like DOTA2 better if A. I understood what was going on  B. It wasn't so fucking ugly - seriously, that's a NEW game?
Sums up my feelings too tbh. It looks like they haven't skinned the character models, one seemed to be just be a purple blob. They have gone all out on particle effects etc. though, which adds to my confusion as to whats going on as I can't recognise whos cast what but at least pretties it up some. (no different to storm/fungal if I didn't know sc2 I guess).
Now comon, lets get the sc2 going! I wanna hear another Dima victory roar!
|
On June 19 2012 06:55 NexUmbra wrote:
Please guys lets have some more "SC2 is easier to watch/Dota 2 is easier to watch/LoL is easier to watch" posts which have no supporting evidence ;p
I've been watching SC games for several years now, as opposed to maybe 2 minutes of Dota 2. That makes them considerably easier to watch. Fact! :p
|
On June 19 2012 06:54 Linwelin wrote:
I wanna watch more Dota 2! Any specific website I should browse orrr?
joindota.com is a very good place to start, has the same caster as you just heard (the yelling dud with the aussie accent :p)
|
4713 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:55 Sp00ly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:52 Destructicon wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 Asha` wrote:
Not sure whether to bother staying up for the sc2 finals or not, both players are prone to being pretty boring.
Maybe the first game and see how it goes. Seriously, show some respect towards the players at least and don't post crap like that. Both Dimaga and Mana have been around for a long time, and both are great players in their own right, Mana is now taking his play to the next level since he has finished school and Dimaga is a solid and innovative player. And if they are in the final they have fought trough their fair share of Koreans and other top pros and well deserve to be there. Anyone that says Dimaga is boring didn't watch his games clearly. Ling/bling drops is waaayy less boring than roach/infestor.
Yes, I agree 100%, ling with bling drops is so much harder to pull of, much more micro intensive for both the zerg to pull off and for the protoss to survive against. The zerg needs to land enough banes and spread his overlords out enough to kill or damage enough of the protoss army to win, meanwhile the protoss has to forcefield, focus fire overlords if possible and split blink his stalkers away in small little clumps, its all aching to marine splits and its a fucking treat to see.
How can you enjoy watching standard PvZ after you've seen Dimaga in action is beyond words, that stuff is so good its too bad no one else is doing it.
|
On June 19 2012 06:55 NexUmbra wrote:
Please guys lets have some more "SC2 is easier to watch/Dota 2 is easier to watch/LoL is easier to watch" posts which have no supporting evidence ;p
LoL is easier to watch! They have a stream embedded in their client!
(Can't beat that reasoning!)
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:57 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:51 [17]Purple wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 ZAiNs wrote:On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2. SC2 is 10 times easier to watch. any objective evidence to support that? Common sense. um... no You think the game with 10 different players playing at once with tons of CPU controlled characters and where each character each has their own items is easier to watch than SC2? The casters screaming 80% of the game doesn't make it any easier to follow. I'm not saying Dota sucks or anything, just that SC2 is obviously easier to watch.
I'm sorry I've seen countless games where the LR thread is completely fooled by biased casters and actually don't end up knowing the final result so no it isn't that easy to watch unless your watching it at a neutral stand point and understand the game perfectly
|
On June 19 2012 06:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:That's really cool
My god, I'm actually close to crying. I'm really tired, but it's just all these memories of DHW1 flooding back, and Naama and Mana battling it out.
Where did those days go... where did Naama go?
I want to see the SCV train again, I want to see the epic storms, I want to see the seige tanks in TvP.
<3 Naama, <3 Mana and <3 Dreamhack. :'(
|
On June 19 2012 06:57 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:56 Sp00ly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:55 blade55555 wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Klonere wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Wunder wrote:
Damn those were some sick DOTA2 games, hopefully SC2 will be pretty hype too Its ZvP so probably not T_T so true . Only reason I am going to watch is to study dimaga's ling/bane style. If Mana doesn't get storm at least once this series I will cry. Storm is usually not researched during blink-stalker all-ins.
Hahaha. If Mana blink stalker all-ins every game I will cry even more. Unless he manages to win with it.
|
Wake up Dreamhack, you forgot the finals!!
|
On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2. SC2 is 10 times easier to watch. any objective evidence to support that?
It's much less confusing to begin with.
It's hard to focus on just one hero when watching dota2, there's sh*t everywhere.
|
On June 19 2012 06:53 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. Simple as that. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. I'd say that a lot depends on the casters as well. Then go and watch 20 games of Dota? See, Dota is very clear. You kill the enemy base. In order to do that, you have to get past the enemy team. And the team that gets obliterated, loses.
It's harder to understand because I've never heard a caster say what a unit is capable of or why what gear/item they're talking about is so good/bad or whatever. I know it would be as if SC2 was always cast towards newbie viewers and that would suck for everyone else, but still moba games are kinda strange. It's always that same 3-lane map even between different games, there's NPCs and towers everywhere, games take forever to play out, etc. With RTS you start with very little and the progression is easy to follow.
I don't care if people enjoy those types of games, I'm just saying it's very surprising to me that they're not only popular but are considered eSports. I played DOTA back when it was just a WCIII map and it doesn't look like much has changed (especially that exact same map, even from back then).
|
United States97277 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:59 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:53 HaXXspetten wrote:On June 19 2012 06:51 L3g3nd_ wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 Fragile51 wrote:On June 19 2012 06:47 Sp00ly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:46 Klipsys wrote:
SC2 fans get mad when BW fans shit on SC2.
So they SC2 Fans shit on DOTA2 Fans, who then shit on LoL fans.
Who do the LoL fans shit on? Quake live. no one shits on quake live, quake live is an insanely tough and competitive game, second most skilled esport behind BW ^ This. Seriously though, watching QL first person blows my mind, anyone who says otherwise is just... Ye, LoL shitting on QLive... That's the biggest insult i've ever read! (if i'd take it seriously ). Q3 pros were gods amongst men!
I've never really watched it but I heard the quake games were some of the hardest games to play at a high level
|
On June 19 2012 06:57 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:51 [17]Purple wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 ZAiNs wrote:On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2. SC2 is 10 times easier to watch. any objective evidence to support that? Common sense. um... no You think the game with 10 different players playing at once with tons of CPU controlled characters and where each character each has their own items is easier to watch than SC2? The casters screaming 80% of the game doesn't make it any easier to follow. I'm not saying Dota sucks or anything, just that SC2 is obviously easier to watch.
It can also be slow at times, with not a whole lot to watch, and unless you play SC you can't really understand the factors of macroing effectively and strategy in timings, etc. Big issue with viewing SC is the meta game being standard you see alot of games that mimic each other, not to mention alot of "one battle wins the game" type matches are pretty disappointing.
|
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:57 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:51 [17]Purple wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 ZAiNs wrote:On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2. SC2 is 10 times easier to watch. any objective evidence to support that? Common sense. um... no You think the game with 10 different players playing at once with tons of CPU controlled characters and where each character each has their own items is easier to watch than SC2? The casters screaming 80% of the game doesn't make it any easier to follow. I'm not saying Dota sucks or anything, just that SC2 is obviously easier to watch.
Not obvious, completely subjective, even though I agree with you.
For me SC2 was way easier to get into, I just watched HD/Husky and I was hooked, before I'd ever considered playing the game. For dota I have messed around a bit on the WC3 version vs Bots, and I know the mechanics, but I still find it confusing as fuck to watch. But of course, thats completely subjective, and even if what I said was fact, it says nothing about the relative quality of the 2 games.
|
On June 19 2012 06:57 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:51 [17]Purple wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 ZAiNs wrote:On June 19 2012 06:49 mememolly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 TheSir wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2. SC2 is 10 times easier to watch. any objective evidence to support that? Common sense. um... no You think the game with 10 different players playing at once with tons of CPU controlled characters and where each character each has their own items is easier to watch than SC2? The casters screaming 80% of the game doesn't make it any easier to follow. I'm not saying Dota sucks or anything, just that SC2 is obviously easier to watch.
I'd agree with you, but I think that's what makes Dota such a good game IF you get into it. If you don't understand the game, EVERYTHING seems really confusing cause there's so much going on, but if you start analyzing the game like you do for SC2 like in terms of different build orders, positioning, army composition, it's such an amazing game to watch. You have to take in ALL 5 players of a team to see how each affects the game.
|
when does the finals start?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
