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Dreamhack Summer [Day 2] - Page 300

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 298 299 300 301 302 316 Next
elsezilla
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands30 Posts
June 17 2012 23:58 GMT
#5981
From DH-admin on twitter:
Ik ben de speelgoed
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
June 17 2012 23:58 GMT
#5982
Rod Breslau ‏@Slasher
Huk is out, and brackets are up. TL teamkill with Korean favorites HerO and Taeja in the first round. All Koreans same side of the bracket.

21m Richard Stanway Richard Stanway ‏@R1CH_TL
@Slasher Totally by chance of course.

20m Rod Breslau Rod Breslau ‏@Slasher
@R1CH_TL are you saying it's not?

8m Richard Stanway Richard Stanway ‏@R1CH_TL
@Slasher Actually I'm wrong about it being Winter, as far as I can tell this group selection for the bracket hasn't been used before.

2m Fredrik Korsbäck Fredrik Korsbäck ‏@hugge_
@R1CH_TL @Slasher we did it like we did on Stockholm (and winter ). Randomized with seeding intact. Split it into each side of bracket.


so who will ban R1CH for bracket fixing insinuations?
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 00:00:18
June 17 2012 23:59 GMT
#5983
On June 18 2012 08:57 flowSthead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:53 TheBanana wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:47 flowSthead wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:40 TheBanana wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:33 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't understand why aren't all the tournaments with group stages using GSL format groups, rather than round robin. In that format it can never happen that player only loses once and is eliminated...


Because the GSL-group system is unfair.

Example.
Player A is God and beats everyone.
Player B is horrible and loses to everyone.
Player C and Player D are exactly the same.

C and D goes 1-1 (2-1, 1-2) against each other.
The guy drawing player B advances and never faces player A.


That is not the way it would work:

A wins vs B
C wins vs D
A wins vs C and A advances
D wins vs B and B drops out
C and D have a rematch that decides who goes on. Neither of them have an advantage. A still gets out, B still drops out.

In what kind of scenario would A being God and B being terrible give an unfair advantage? You have to win twice to get out, no matter what. You have to lose twice to drop out, no matter what.


A vs B 2-0
C vs D 2-0

A vs C 2-0
D vs B 2-0

C vs D 1-2

How is this not unfair for C?
He went 1-1 against D and actually beat him 3-2, still goes out because he didn't get the free win vs B.




Because he didn't win two best of threes. The map score doesn't matter as much as the best of threes. C didn't play consistently enough. Or D played more strategically by playing poorer strategies so he could face B. Either way, C didn't play well enough when it was all on the line. The map scores don't matter at all.


C played better than D overall.

It's unfair because one player gets a free win and one player gets a sure loss.
No need to overcomplicate that simple fact.

If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
sansalvador
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria308 Posts
June 17 2012 23:59 GMT
#5984
On June 18 2012 08:58 elsezilla wrote:
From DH-admin on twitter: https://twitter.com/hugge_/status/214506403883266049

The officiall tweet to end all that bullshit. Thank you sir.
LittleAtari
Profile Joined August 2010
Jordan1090 Posts
June 17 2012 23:59 GMT
#5985
I really hate what happened to huk. The only series he dropped the entire tournament was to stephano and slivko gets passed him On top of that, he beat slivko. I know it went off of map score, but still, to be tied with someone you beat and seeing them pass is just very upsetting
Loxley
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Netherlands2480 Posts
June 17 2012 23:59 GMT
#5986
On June 18 2012 08:58 Mackus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:56 halvorg wrote:
Has anyone seen protosser's games? He has beaten some very good players.

He legit good?


He's consistently in GM in Europe.. Other than that judging by his name he's a high-ranking member of the Protoss or pro at being a tosser, I suspect neither of those tho


He got some skill for sure! He played some awesome games in the open and group stages so far.
월요 날 재미있
rasnj
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1959 Posts
June 18 2012 00:00 GMT
#5987
On June 18 2012 08:57 Skyline026 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:54 VisonKai wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:52 Skyline026 wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:49 Xoronius wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:47 Skyline026 wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:45 bikefrog wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:41 Skyline026 wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:36 Korelle wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:34 OzVelas wrote:
hero keen taeja nerchio stephano are in the same bracket, what a joke


What's wrong with that? It guarantees a foreigner will be in the final. Which means a higher number of people will be tuning in!

Win/Win for e-sports.



Pushing lesser players towards are final because they are swedish is not a win for esports.


I dont believe this much of a coincidence.

Guess again, because the Swedes have horrible roads ahead of them.



Wait wut?

Both are avoiding Stephano and the left over Koreans.

How is this a horrible road?


Nani has to play his worst MU two times in a row, Sase one time. And even if they had an easier road, they would have deserved it by actually winning their groups, unlike Taeja and keen.



How did these brackets came to be?


Winner of a group vs loser of another group.



Ofc.

but how did they decide what group plays what group.
Pretty easy to wait for the results, then decide on brackets.

But meh.

Enough about the brackets. HerO vs Ret finals.

Lets go!

It is decided randomly. Also while I would love to see Ret in finals I doubt it. He is still having major issues with any kind of immortal push.
JayJay_90
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1632 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 00:02:57
June 18 2012 00:00 GMT
#5988
On June 18 2012 08:54 TheDougler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:44 JayJay_90 wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:39 TheDougler wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:34 m0ck wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:32 TheDougler wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:25 disinfect wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:23 Crushinator wrote:
Ouch, Huk out despite going 2-1. That has to hurt, and is a very unfortunate thing about this system


It's a great system. It always sucks to lose.


It's not a great system it takes a lot of strategy out of each series.

In a GSL group, due to winner's and loser's matches, you can play way more mind games. Do you go for two standard games or do you cheese? If you're up 1-0 in your BO3 you can do a risky build to try to close it out easily.

In the dreamhack system you HAVE to try to 2-0 every match, 2-1 is (as we see right here) not an option. So people will do the build they feel most comfortable with. Remember Nestea's spine crawler rush that worked in GSL a few months ago? Or the failed one he tried earlier this week? Neither of those would EVER happen in this tournament because it's just not worth the risk of being eliminated.

You're making zero sense


Could you explain to me what you don't understand?

In this system, you can't afford to metagame your opponent. Your strategy will be the same regardless of your position in the series. In GSL, and (I believe, though could be wrong, MLG where it's heads up, then map score) this is not the case.

Therefore there is less strategy in the dreamhack system, therefore it is inferior. Why do you disagree?

More metagaming = more gambling, less comparison of actual skill.


That depends on your definition of skill I suppose. As SC2 is a strategy game in my opinion there's actually more skill involved this way, rather than a game composed of more very safe builds that more or less just win after a certain amount of time. Plus, the threat of cheese keeps a lot of builds in check, which you don't get when you need to try your best to never lose even a single game.

Well if you say that it depends on one's point of view than you can't argue that one system is clearly inferior to the other one.
And as people have already pointed out, you're wrong about your assumption that players HAVE to go for a 2-0 every match.
sansalvador
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria308 Posts
June 18 2012 00:00 GMT
#5989
Who is fraer? Did someone of you see him play? What can we expect?
Domus
Profile Joined March 2011
510 Posts
June 18 2012 00:00 GMT
#5990
On June 18 2012 08:57 sansalvador wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:55 Domus wrote:
Well, lets put a positive spin on this. The tournament is AWESOME so far . I loved the Naniwa vs Keen match with the Nexus snipes .

It is already spinning very positively, some just don't get it (as usual).

And yes, THAT match was completely bananas. Also, inControl and khaldor doing an excellent job. They litterally cast more than I am able to watch. Impressive.


Yeah, I really think they make for a great casting duo, with some more time casting together, we have some tastosis destroyers here .
sansalvador
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria308 Posts
June 18 2012 00:02 GMT
#5991
On June 18 2012 09:00 Domus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:57 sansalvador wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:55 Domus wrote:
Well, lets put a positive spin on this. The tournament is AWESOME so far . I loved the Naniwa vs Keen match with the Nexus snipes .

It is already spinning very positively, some just don't get it (as usual).

And yes, THAT match was completely bananas. Also, inControl and khaldor doing an excellent job. They litterally cast more than I am able to watch. Impressive.


Yeah, I really think they make for a great casting duo, with some more time casting together, we have some tastosis destroyers here .

Well, they can definitely beat the crap out of the casting archon. ^^
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
June 18 2012 00:02 GMT
#5992
What about these brackets? All the British players are excluded? All this ranking based on results of SC2 games is so unfair. It's a conspiracy to favour the winners of the games. Discrimination, I tell ya...

Also look at the Netherlands - got knocked out of Euro2012 only because they lost all 3 games. So unfair. It's a conspiracy! UEFA use an unfair system that only allows the winners of football matches to advance? How messed up is that? Corruption, I tell ya...




LOL
TheSir
Profile Joined February 2012
1830 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 00:04:13
June 18 2012 00:03 GMT
#5993
On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.


Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it.


Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. SHould be cool to see reaction from players/audience etc plus it gives some extra legitimacy to a draw
Warpish
Profile Joined June 2011
834 Posts
June 18 2012 00:03 GMT
#5994
On June 18 2012 09:00 sansalvador wrote:
Who is fraer? Did someone of you see him play? What can we expect?


He's good. I've seen him win against Bomber.
Kkxtrouble
Profile Joined April 2012
Brazil575 Posts
June 18 2012 00:03 GMT
#5995
Time to watch Gigabyte
I pledge myself to conquer all the foes who stand before the mighty gift bestowed in my unworthy hand
sansalvador
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria308 Posts
June 18 2012 00:04 GMT
#5996
On June 18 2012 09:02 revel8 wrote:
What about these brackets? All the British players are excluded? All this ranking based on results of SC2 games is so unfair. It's a conspiracy to favour the winners of the games. Discrimination, I tell ya...

Also look at the Netherlands - got knocked out of Euro2012 only because they lost all 3 games. So unfair. It's a conspiracy! UEFA use an unfair system that only allows the winners of football matches to advance? How messed up is that? Corruption, I tell ya...




LOL

The game takes 90 minutes and in the end germany wins.
You can't explain that.
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
June 18 2012 00:04 GMT
#5997
On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.


Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it.


Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that.


Do you want lawyers present too? Obama may be?
Duendain
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden7 Posts
June 18 2012 00:04 GMT
#5998
Aw, Teamkill with Taeja and Hero tommorow. Sad.
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
June 18 2012 00:05 GMT
#5999
On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:
On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.


Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it.


Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. SHould be cool to see reaction from players/audience etc plus it gives some extra legitimacy to a draw


I thought that was how it was done, is it not?
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
Xoronius
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany6362 Posts
June 18 2012 00:05 GMT
#6000
On June 18 2012 08:59 LittleAtari wrote:
I really hate what happened to huk. The only series he dropped the entire tournament was to stephano and slivko gets passed him On top of that, he beat slivko. I know it went off of map score, but still, to be tied with someone you beat and seeing them pass is just very upsetting

You can´t let him advance, because of beating sLivko. Otherwise, sLivko would be out, although he beat Stephano, who would advance. So you would have to go with HuK and sLivko, which would be unfair, because Stephano beat HuK. and so on.... There is no other way for three-way-ties than map-score.
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