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On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:
Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. SHould be cool to see reaction from players/audience etc plus it gives some extra legitimacy to a draw
I remember an event (i think it was an IEM, could be wrong though) where people made similar accusations for no apparent reason and complained about it being done secretly and all that stuff and then it turned out they actually did it in front of all the players that where still in the tournament but just didn't stream it. No idea how Dreamhack handled it in this case thiugh.
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On June 18 2012 09:08 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:07 sansalvador wrote:On June 18 2012 09:05 Embir wrote:
Great event, great games - and finally foreigners stood up against Koreans. Only minus is that there are some moronic posters on Team Liquid that claims brackets were set up. So much whining kids on this site, especially in LR threads. I whish there was something like a moron fee for the tournament streams. "You are detected as a fucking idiot. Please pay 10$ to resume watching. thank you." Something like that. Don't give them ideas..
Bet it happens at the next MLG.
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On June 18 2012 09:09 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:59 TheBanana wrote:On June 18 2012 08:57 flowSthead wrote:On June 18 2012 08:53 TheBanana wrote:On June 18 2012 08:47 flowSthead wrote:On June 18 2012 08:40 TheBanana wrote:On June 18 2012 08:33 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't understand why aren't all the tournaments with group stages using GSL format groups, rather than round robin. In that format it can never happen that player only loses once and is eliminated... Because the GSL-group system is unfair. Example. Player A is God and beats everyone. Player B is horrible and loses to everyone. Player C and Player D are exactly the same. C and D goes 1-1 (2-1, 1-2) against each other. The guy drawing player B advances and never faces player A. That is not the way it would work: A wins vs B C wins vs D A wins vs C and A advances D wins vs B and B drops out C and D have a rematch that decides who goes on. Neither of them have an advantage. A still gets out, B still drops out. In what kind of scenario would A being God and B being terrible give an unfair advantage? You have to win twice to get out, no matter what. You have to lose twice to drop out, no matter what. A vs B 2-0 C vs D 2-0 A vs C 2-0 D vs B 2-0 C vs D 1-2 How is this not unfair for C? He went 1-1 against D and actually beat him 3-2, still goes out because he didn't get the free win vs B. Because he didn't win two best of threes. The map score doesn't matter as much as the best of threes. C didn't play consistently enough. Or D played more strategically by playing poorer strategies so he could face B. Either way, C didn't play well enough when it was all on the line. The map scores don't matter at all. C played better than D overall. It's unfair because one player gets a free win and one player gets a sure loss. No need to overcomplicate that simple fact. There's nothing unfair about this. C and D play one match (the 5th one) to decide who advances. The result of the first bo3 isn't relevant, and if this situation came up in a tournament somehow, the players should recognize it and not give anything important away during their first series.
How is that fair?
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wow...that's one messed up bracket. I guess this is one way to ensure a foreigner will be in the finals.
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why would anyone fix the bracket? no idea ...
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On June 18 2012 09:05 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:59 LittleAtari wrote:I really hate what happened to huk. The only series he dropped the entire tournament was to stephano and slivko gets passed him  On top of that, he beat slivko. I know it went off of map score, but still, to be tied with someone you beat and seeing them pass is just very upsetting You can´t let him advance, because of beating sLivko. Otherwise, sLivko would be out, although he beat Stephano, who would advance. So you would have to go with HuK and sLivko, which would be unfair, because Stephano beat HuK. and so on.... There is no other way for three-way-ties than map-score.
Plus Stephano and sLivko both 2-0 Morrow. Huk went 2-1 against Morrow. Sad for Huk, but its overall the most fair.
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The ammount of stupid in this thread is mind blowing.
User was warned for this post
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On June 18 2012 09:05 Skyline026 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.
Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it. Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. This. Dreamhack can avoid this easy if they just do a public draw.
avoid what?
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On June 18 2012 09:05 Embir wrote:
Great event, great games - and finally foreigners stood up against Koreans. Only minus is that there are some moronic posters on Team Liquid that claims brackets were set up. So much whining kids on this site, especially in LR threads.
Umm... I didn't see MC, MKP, MVP, etc? Also ro16 is pretty stacked, so there's no way two Koreans can meet in finals. A bit ignorant from your side I'd say.
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On June 18 2012 09:11 amiGo_O wrote:
why would anyone fix the bracket? no idea ...
And if they did it would never end up like that.
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On June 18 2012 09:09 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:05 Skyline026 wrote:On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.
Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it. Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. This. Dreamhack can avoid this easy if they just do a public draw. Avoid what exactly? LOL.
The fact that people wonder about how random random is. Nothing better to shut people up than to show them the draw.
Next world cup we will skip the draw and you are handed a note: " ooh yeah, Sweden will play Brazil, Spain and Argentina in pool play. It was random, so its ok"
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On June 18 2012 09:09 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:05 Skyline026 wrote:On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.
Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it. Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. This. Dreamhack can avoid this easy if they just do a public draw. I'm not in on the conspiracy theory, but a public drawing would be awesome. If you're going to do a random drawing, why not make a show of it? Sure times would be tough, but if they'd scheduled it in I'd be interested in watching that as well.
If you do it right after the last match or the next day when players arrive you should have time enough to do it. It only takes like 5/10 minutes, maybe with some quick predictions etc from the casters or something. It's only a small thing but imo it really could add something to a tournament, just like the 2GD couch (slightly bigger project though) is a awesome addition to a event
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On June 18 2012 09:10 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:09 huameng wrote:On June 18 2012 08:59 TheBanana wrote:On June 18 2012 08:57 flowSthead wrote:On June 18 2012 08:53 TheBanana wrote:On June 18 2012 08:47 flowSthead wrote:On June 18 2012 08:40 TheBanana wrote:On June 18 2012 08:33 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't understand why aren't all the tournaments with group stages using GSL format groups, rather than round robin. In that format it can never happen that player only loses once and is eliminated... Because the GSL-group system is unfair. Example. Player A is God and beats everyone. Player B is horrible and loses to everyone. Player C and Player D are exactly the same. C and D goes 1-1 (2-1, 1-2) against each other. The guy drawing player B advances and never faces player A. That is not the way it would work: A wins vs B C wins vs D A wins vs C and A advances D wins vs B and B drops out C and D have a rematch that decides who goes on. Neither of them have an advantage. A still gets out, B still drops out. In what kind of scenario would A being God and B being terrible give an unfair advantage? You have to win twice to get out, no matter what. You have to lose twice to drop out, no matter what. A vs B 2-0 C vs D 2-0 A vs C 2-0 D vs B 2-0 C vs D 1-2 How is this not unfair for C? He went 1-1 against D and actually beat him 3-2, still goes out because he didn't get the free win vs B. Because he didn't win two best of threes. The map score doesn't matter as much as the best of threes. C didn't play consistently enough. Or D played more strategically by playing poorer strategies so he could face B. Either way, C didn't play well enough when it was all on the line. The map scores don't matter at all. C played better than D overall. It's unfair because one player gets a free win and one player gets a sure loss. No need to overcomplicate that simple fact. There's nothing unfair about this. C and D play one match (the 5th one) to decide who advances. The result of the first bo3 isn't relevant, and if this situation came up in a tournament somehow, the players should recognize it and not give anything important away during their first series. How is that fair?
Because that is the way tournaments should work. However many individual maps you won or lost in the previous parts of the tournament shouldn't have bearing on the best of three you are playing right now. If a player wins every match 2 to 1 or 3 to 2 or 4 to 3 and another player wins 2 to 0 and 3 to 0 and 4 to 0, but loses to the first player, is the second player better because he dominated? It's a ridiculous question. The first player won. That is all that matters. Not how closely he won or how much he dominated. He won the matches he needed to win.
EDIT: By the way, this is also why extended series sucks. Because previous parts of the tournament have bearing, when they shouldn't.
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On June 18 2012 08:25 Lasbike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:23 TheShadower wrote:
Terrible situation for Huk.
You go 8-1 in your matches, only losing to Stephano, and you get eliminated. Dumb. Yeah but he didn't win a single 2-0, only 2* 2-1. And there you have your difference. It's not dumb, it's just math, and how 4-players-groups have always worked.
No, the math is dumb because not everyone played the same amount of games. Bo are good for head to head. If your doing a numbers of wins, then everyone should play the same number of games.
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sc2 is such a small fraction of dreamhack's business. they have nothing to gain from fixing the bracket
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Damn Huk out coz he dropped all those maps despite winning..then Hero vs Taeja. And finals on a Monday?! A workday...sigh...
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I love how these threads always turn to total shit when there are no games to talk about...
Brackets aren't fixed, Koreans+Stephano+Naniwa+Huk are all unlucky. Lets all go to bed and dream about the great games we will see tomorrow.
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On June 18 2012 09:13 Skyline026 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:09 Integra wrote:On June 18 2012 09:05 Skyline026 wrote:On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.
Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it. Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. This. Dreamhack can avoid this easy if they just do a public draw. Avoid what exactly? LOL. The fact that people wonder about how random random is. Nothing better to shut people up than to show them the draw. Next world cup we will skip the draw and you are handed a note: " ooh yeah, Sweden will play Brazil, Spain and Argentina in pool play. It was random, so its ok"
Fair point. And I am pretty sure they are already regretting not doing it on stream. lessen learned I guess.
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On June 18 2012 09:13 Skyline026 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:09 Integra wrote:On June 18 2012 09:05 Skyline026 wrote:On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.
Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it. Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. This. Dreamhack can avoid this easy if they just do a public draw. Avoid what exactly? LOL. The fact that people wonder about how random random is. Nothing better to shut people up than to show them the draw. Next world cup we will skip the draw and you are handed a note: " ooh yeah, Sweden will play Brazil, Spain and Argentina in pool play. It was random, so its ok"
ya.. lets compare this to the world cup... I don't know even...
There are, wat 5 people in this thread that believes the bracket are rigged for... whatever crazy reason, no matter what DH does there will still be at least 5 people still thinking it might rigged lol. ah well, im off, goodnight.
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On June 18 2012 09:14 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 09:13 Skyline026 wrote:On June 18 2012 09:09 Integra wrote:On June 18 2012 09:05 Skyline026 wrote:On June 18 2012 09:03 TheSir wrote:On June 18 2012 08:48 darkest44 wrote:On June 18 2012 08:45 Proseat wrote:
If they actually draw the bracket randomly, I wish they'd not do it behind closed doors. This bracket smells fishy, too many "coincidences" for my taste. Liquid Koreans kill each other? Stephano versus the third Korean? Ret vs SaSe? Really looks like they "made" certain matchups "happen" to help a certain Swede on the way.
Rofl, people are fucking crazy in this thread. Stephano gets them the most viewers period, why the hell would they devise some conspiracy to most likely get him eliminated and get less viewers and thus less $$. Grow up kiddies, random bracket is the most fair way and it won't always go the way you like it. Well im not a guy who thinks in conspiracy theory's or anything but i would kinda like to see a draw for the final bracket live in the open. Like in other sports with little balls in bowls etc in front of a audience and players, something like that. This. Dreamhack can avoid this easy if they just do a public draw. Avoid what exactly? LOL. The fact that people wonder about how random random is. Nothing better to shut people up than to show them the draw. Next world cup we will skip the draw and you are handed a note: " ooh yeah, Sweden will play Brazil, Spain and Argentina in pool play. It was random, so its ok" ya.. lets compare this to the world cup... I don't know even... There are, wat 5 people in this thread that believes the bracket are rigged for... whatever crazy reason, no matter what DH does there will still be at least 5 people still thinking it might rigged lol. ah well, im off, goodnight.
I guess it's due to too many random coincidences which triggered rage.
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EPT
