On July 02 2012 01:30 Kenpark wrote: Well Nani is 100% right. These arent really high level games and I doubt anyone of the players could come even close to qualifying through the sweden qualifier, while there are at least 10 swedes, who could EASILY make top 3 in this.
Yeah, he's saying what a lot of people are thinking, but he does it quite unprofessionally. Then again, there's a lot that can be said about the # of seeds for different countries in this tournament.
Sorry, who is thinking what Nani just said? You say a lot of people, I haven't seen a single person present a semi-decent argument supporting what he said haha. As many people have pointed out, if you wanted a fair representation, there would be 95% koreans. That's not what the WCS is about.
heh, anyone who actually CAN think would know what Naniwa said was ridiculous. Unless you want to give Korea 30 spots and the rest of the world 2 for the WCS (which would be the 'fair' representation).
Look at the number of slots. Germany gets 4, Sweden gets 3, same as the UK. Now anyone who knows anything about SC2 pro scene has to understand, why that is weird and why especially Swedish players are angry about this.
You forgot to write down your argument.
The argument is so blindingly obvious, that I can't believe you're actually asking me to spell it out for you.
You can easily fill all the spots in Sweden with players, that are known and we actually know, they can go toe to toe with the best in the world.
Before the UK nationals, you would be hard pressed to even name three UK guys and then there's the question, if they would be even able to hold their own against the rest of the players.
Which I'd love to see, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather give somebody a chance in the big leagues after they show us a little bit more.
The whole point of these nationals is to GROW THE SCENE IN EACH COUNTRY. There are hundreds of tournaments where the established pros can milk their fame and skill already.
The UK has a lot of SC2 players, as many as Sweden and only a little less than Germany. If the scene starts to grow here it'll take off really quickly and we need that exposure.
As for Sweden getting 3 players, if those 3 players are as good as they seem to be (Naniwa + Thorzain + someone else?) then they might take the whole tournament.
On July 02 2012 01:30 Kenpark wrote: Well Nani is 100% right. These arent really high level games and I doubt anyone of the players could come even close to qualifying through the sweden qualifier, while there are at least 10 swedes, who could EASILY make top 3 in this.
Yeah, he's saying what a lot of people are thinking, but he does it quite unprofessionally. Then again, there's a lot that can be said about the # of seeds for different countries in this tournament.
Sorry, who is thinking what Nani just said? You say a lot of people, I haven't seen a single person present a semi-decent argument supporting what he said haha. As many people have pointed out, if you wanted a fair representation, there would be 95% koreans. That's not what the WCS is about.
heh, anyone who actually CAN think would know what Naniwa said was ridiculous. Unless you want to give Korea 30 spots and the rest of the world 2 for the WCS (which would be the 'fair' representation).
Look at the number of slots. Germany gets 4, Sweden gets 3, same as the UK. Now anyone who knows anything about SC2 pro scene has to understand, why that is weird and why especially Swedish players are angry about this.
You forgot to write down your argument.
The argument is so blindingly obvious, that I can't believe you're actually asking me to spell it out for you.
You can easily fill all the spots in Sweden with players, that are known and we actually know, they can go toe to toe with the best in the world.
Before the UK nationals, you would be hard pressed to even name three UK guys and then there's the question, if they would be even able to hold their own against the rest of the players.
Which I'd love to see, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather give somebody a chance in the big leagues after they show us a little bit more.
The whole point of these nationals is to GROW THE SCENE IN EACH COUNTRY. There are hundreds of tournaments where the established pros can milk their fame and skill already.
The UK has a lot of SC2 players, as many as Sweden and only a little less than Germany. If the scene starts to grow here it'll take off really quickly and we need that exposure.
Wow I can't believe all the whiney Swedes that can't understand that the tournament is designed to spread SC2 popularity across the globe in different nations.
On July 02 2012 02:14 Otolia wrote: Pathetic display from DeMusliM and BlinG. They should be ashamed of being in pro teams.
JonnyREcco and Ziktomini may be good players but they aren't the only good but unknown players in EU (despite what some overly patriotic Brits may think) and while I appreciate a good underdog story like everyone else, only one of them should have been able to qualify - and none if you consider that UK should only have 2 seed maximum.
It seems like you completely missed the point of the whole WCS tournament. It is not meant to bring only the best and most known players, it's quite the opposite.
Anyway, do you hold the French tournament to the same standards? If yes, then tell ESL to cancel it and simply hand over the money and tickets to Stephano and maybe Adelscott. You better don't watch next week, someone else might win the top 3 spots and you'll be terribly disappointed! :D
On July 02 2012 02:14 Otolia wrote: Pathetic display from DeMusliM and BlinG. They should be ashamed of being in pro teams.
JonnyREcco and Ziktomini may be good players but they aren't the only good but unknown players in EU (despite what some overly patriotic Brits may think) and while I appreciate a good underdog story like everyone else, only one of them should have been able to qualify - and none if you consider that UK should only have 2 seed maximum.
It seems like you completely missed the point of the whole WCS tournament. It is not meant to bring only the best and most known players, it's quite the opposite.
Anyway, do you hold the French tournament to the same standards? If yes, then tell ESL to cancel it and simply hand over the money and tickets to Stephano and maybe Adelscott. You better don't watch next week, someone else might win the top 3 spots and you'll be terribly disappointed! :D
Hahaha. Bravo good sir, bravo.
Seriously guys, people are missing the point of WCS HARD. Really, really hard.
No Brits are saying Zikitomi is going to go out and crush Korean face. We are just happy he gets a chance to get some exposure, the smaller players deserve it.
Was a fun event to spectate, great host and casters! Gotta say though a few of the games were quite bad but that happens even in the big tournaments that we see bad games. Would watch again!
From a Q&A of GosuGamers with Ilja Rotelli, Director of Community and eSports at Blizzard:
Q: I have a two part question for the current season of the WCS. In Europe, the countries are given different number of slots, calculated on the size of the playing population. This took some of our readers aback: they saw Germany having four spots, Ukraine having only two. So there was a very large discussion about the “traditional” StarCraft countries and people were criticizing and wondering “Why Germany has twice as many spots as Ukraine? Why Sweden has three and the others have less?”
The second part is about the USA Nationals, where there’s a combination between qualifiers and invites and many readers considered this unfair: “Why would only USA have invites and not the European countries?”
So do you see this as legitimate concerns and do you plan to do adjustments in the future?
A: Right now, the procedure we use to allocate slots is just taking the SC2 populations and creating proportions with the total number of slots in mind. We have mitigated that a little, I think we’ve privileged a little bit Korea and Taiwan based on the fact that they have very active professional scene but that’s the only alteration we did. Everything else is a fair and square mimicking the size of the population.
We will recalculate the slots every year based on the change of Battle.net population size.
On your second question: we approached different eSports organizations and we said “We have slots for nationals and we want to reward existing leagues with these slots. So please come to us and tell us how you would spend these slots if we gave them to you.” So we then look at the proposals and when we see a reasonable one – based on the level of competition, for example – we award them with slots. And this process was open to everybody, we actively approached organizations with the inquiry of if they want slots for nationals.
zikto took maps from thorzain and nerchio @ dreamhack and won a bo3 against bly and stephano. its not a shame at all to lose to him. BlinG's performance is questionable though. He lost to Simba who plays mainly 2on2, very often with myself and i never lost a 1on1 against him thusfar. no idea how bling lost that oO
On July 02 2012 01:30 Kenpark wrote: Well Nani is 100% right. These arent really high level games and I doubt anyone of the players could come even close to qualifying through the sweden qualifier, while there are at least 10 swedes, who could EASILY make top 3 in this.
Yeah, he's saying what a lot of people are thinking, but he does it quite unprofessionally. Then again, there's a lot that can be said about the # of seeds for different countries in this tournament.
Sorry, who is thinking what Nani just said? You say a lot of people, I haven't seen a single person present a semi-decent argument supporting what he said haha. As many people have pointed out, if you wanted a fair representation, there would be 95% koreans. That's not what the WCS is about.
heh, anyone who actually CAN think would know what Naniwa said was ridiculous. Unless you want to give Korea 30 spots and the rest of the world 2 for the WCS (which would be the 'fair' representation).
Look at the number of slots. Germany gets 4, Sweden gets 3, same as the UK. Now anyone who knows anything about SC2 pro scene has to understand, why that is weird and why especially Swedish players are angry about this.
You forgot to write down your argument.
The argument is so blindingly obvious, that I can't believe you're actually asking me to spell it out for you.
You can easily fill all the spots in Sweden with players, that are known and we actually know, they can go toe to toe with the best in the world.
Before the UK nationals, you would be hard pressed to even name three UK guys and then there's the question, if they would be even able to hold their own against the rest of the players.
Which I'd love to see, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather give somebody a chance in the big leagues after they show us a little bit more.
It's based entirely of player pool from a specific country. British players are playing the game as much as Swedish players (even if we have less pro's) and thus we are contributing the same to Blizzard and the continued activity on their ladder.
Hence we deserve the same number of spots in this Blizzard tournament.
i wonder how long it will take for people to figure out that demuslim is overrated.... (i'll admit he got a lot better and he has been a lot more overrated that he is now but he still is...)
i don't get why everyone is like:" what a huge upset. noone would ever have predicted that." but if you are active in the european scene (or just watch dreamhack and TSL qualifiers) you should have realized that ziktomini and JRecco have to be considered to be at the same level as bling and demuslim even if you take their lack of live experience into consideration
Q: I have a two part question for the current season of the WCS. In Europe, the countries are given different number of slots, calculated on the size of the playing population. This took some of our readers aback: they saw Germany having four spots, Ukraine having only two. So there was a very large discussion about the “traditional” StarCraft countries and people were criticizing and wondering “Why Germany has twice as many spots as Ukraine? Why Sweden has three and the others have less?”
The second part is about the USA Nationals, where there’s a combination between qualifiers and invites and many readers considered this unfair: “Why would only USA have invites and not the European countries?”
So do you see this as legitimate concerns and do you plan to do adjustments in the future?
A: Right now, the procedure we use to allocate slots is just taking the SC2 populations and creating proportions with the total number of slots in mind. We have mitigated that a little, I think we’ve privileged a little bit Korea and Taiwan based on the fact that they have very active professional scene but that’s the only alteration we did. Everything else is a fair and square mimicking the size of the population.
We will recalculate the slots every year based on the change of Battle.net population size.
On your second question: we approached different eSports organizations and we said “We have slots for nationals and we want to reward existing leagues with these slots. So please come to us and tell us how you would spend these slots if we gave them to you.” So we then look at the proposals and when we see a reasonable one – based on the level of competition, for example – we award them with slots. And this process was open to everybody, we actively approached organizations with the inquiry of if they want slots for nationals.
On July 02 2012 01:30 Kenpark wrote: Well Nani is 100% right. These arent really high level games and I doubt anyone of the players could come even close to qualifying through the sweden qualifier, while there are at least 10 swedes, who could EASILY make top 3 in this.
Yeah, he's saying what a lot of people are thinking, but he does it quite unprofessionally. Then again, there's a lot that can be said about the # of seeds for different countries in this tournament.
Sorry, who is thinking what Nani just said? You say a lot of people, I haven't seen a single person present a semi-decent argument supporting what he said haha. As many people have pointed out, if you wanted a fair representation, there would be 95% koreans. That's not what the WCS is about.
heh, anyone who actually CAN think would know what Naniwa said was ridiculous. Unless you want to give Korea 30 spots and the rest of the world 2 for the WCS (which would be the 'fair' representation).
Look at the number of slots. Germany gets 4, Sweden gets 3, same as the UK. Now anyone who knows anything about SC2 pro scene has to understand, why that is weird and why especially Swedish players are angry about this.
You forgot to write down your argument.
The argument is so blindingly obvious, that I can't believe you're actually asking me to spell it out for you.
You can easily fill all the spots in Sweden with players, that are known and we actually know, they can go toe to toe with the best in the world.
Before the UK nationals, you would be hard pressed to even name three UK guys and then there's the question, if they would be even able to hold their own against the rest of the players.
Which I'd love to see, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather give somebody a chance in the big leagues after they show us a little bit more.
The whole point of these nationals is to GROW THE SCENE IN EACH COUNTRY. There are hundreds of tournaments where the established pros can milk their fame and skill already.
The UK has a lot of SC2 players, as many as Sweden and only a little less than Germany. If the scene starts to grow here it'll take off really quickly and we need that exposure.
As for Sweden getting 3 players, if those 3 players are as good as they seem to be (Naniwa + Thorzain + someone else?) then they might take the whole tournament.
Oh and the rest can't sign up for the hundreds of tournaments and build their name like everybody else had to do at one point or the other?
They would still get their chance, even though there might be one slot less. If the announcement had -1 slot for the UK in favor of Sweden to begin with, nobody would say a bloody thing. But this is not really fair to the better players out there, that don't get their chance, because they were apparently born in the wrong country with a bad pro players/Bnet pop. ratio...
This whole thing is after all called World Championship, is it not? So it would be obvious to alter the rules, so they would make more sense. Inviting a guy, who will get hyped for a week and then forgotten the next is not helping anybody.
On July 02 2012 02:14 Otolia wrote: Pathetic display from DeMusliM and BlinG. They should be ashamed of being in pro teams.
JonnyREcco and Ziktomini may be good players but they aren't the only good but unknown players in EU (despite what some overly patriotic Brits may think) and while I appreciate a good underdog story like everyone else, only one of them should have been able to qualify - and none if you consider that UK should only have 2 seed maximum.
It seems like you completely missed the point of the whole WCS tournament. It is not meant to bring only the best and most known players, it's quite the opposite.
Anyway, do you hold the French tournament to the same standards? If yes, then tell ESL to cancel it and simply hand over the money and tickets to Stephano and maybe Adelscott. You better don't watch next week, someone else might win the top 3 spots and you'll be terribly disappointed! :D
If Stephano doesn't win the tournament, he will be flamed. The amount of flak Adelscott got because he couldn't qualify until the last qualifier is enormous. And if he doesn't get to the top 3, he is going to be flamed as well. And I'll be in the frontline if that happens. If you can't be the best for your country, you better have a good excuse especially when you reside 24/7 in a Gaming House. I suppose some are more interested in social interaction as Kennigit mentionned in his blog ...
The point of the tournament has nothing to do with individual performance, BlinG and DeMusliM performances were terrible because as a progamer you owed to yourself to do better than those who aren't sponsored. Is it cool to have Zikto and Jonny winning ? Yes it is and I'm satisfied with the outcome of the tournament because it gave spots to people who deserves it. But that wasn't my point.
PS : If you really think 2 guys riding favored match-ups right now is going to change your scene, you are daydreaming and I'll need to get back to you in 6 months. UK isn't the best amateur scene in EU, Sweden is, followed by France and Germany.
On July 02 2012 02:14 Otolia wrote: Pathetic display from DeMusliM and BlinG. They should be ashamed of being in pro teams.
JonnyREcco and Ziktomini may be good players but they aren't the only good but unknown players in EU (despite what some overly patriotic Brits may think) and while I appreciate a good underdog story like everyone else, only one of them should have been able to qualify - and none if you consider that UK should only have 2 seed maximum.
It seems like you completely missed the point of the whole WCS tournament. It is not meant to bring only the best and most known players, it's quite the opposite.
Anyway, do you hold the French tournament to the same standards? If yes, then tell ESL to cancel it and simply hand over the money and tickets to Stephano and maybe Adelscott. You better don't watch next week, someone else might win the top 3 spots and you'll be terribly disappointed! :D
If Stephano doesn't win the tournament, he will be flamed. The amount of flak Adelscott got because he couldn't qualify until the last qualifier is enormous. And if he doesn't get to the top 3, he is going to be flamed as well. And I'll be in the frontline if that happens. If you can't be the best for your country, you better have a good excuse especially when you reside 24/7 in a Gaming House. I suppose some are more interested in social interaction as Kennigit mentionned in his blog ...
The point of the tournament has nothing to do with individual performance, BlinG and DeMusliM performances were terrible because as a progamer you owed to yourself to do better than those who aren't sponsored. Is it cool to have Zikto and Jonny winning ? Yes it is and I'm satisfied with the outcome of the tournament because it gave spots to people who deserves it. But that wasn't my point.
PS : If you really think 2 guys riding favored match-ups right now is going to change your scene, you are daydreaming and I'll need to get back to you in 6 months. UK isn't the best amateur scene in EU, Sweden is, followed by France and Germany.
as if you put yourself over Spain....Spain has one of the fastest growing scenes, but of course you have to list yourself next to Germany as a powerhouse...Let's completely forget about Ukraine and Russia...
EPT
