SC:BW Set Game 1: Fairly unusual and quite enjoyable game, check it out Game 2: Watch if you have spare time
SC2 Set Game 1: Bisu played Game 2: Fantasy played. The game has entertainment value but no other qualities. Consider that a warning...or an invitation. Game 3: Quite a decent game, watch it.
On May 27 2012 01:01 SeeKeR wrote: Amazing thread disciple... T-T....
This!
Man, I'm pumped. Two teams stacked with a ton of talent, Bisu AND Fantasy presumably debuting in SC2, some more beautiful building placement from Horangii, Best BW macro...
I'm usually a KT fan, but in this case, I am cheering for SKT1. I can't wait to see Bisu and Fantasy play in SC2. I haven't seen Bisu play in forever, and Fantasy looks dominating in OSL. I wonder how they will do in SC2.
can i have CSS pretty please i wanna make awesome LR now too T_T hahaha. are you going to make the thread for the next series too? someone will have to
Very very excited for the matches tonight, gonna be some good broodwar, and hopefully good SC2, but nice to get a little bit of a sneak peak at what the BW pro's are gonna bring to anaheim SC2 wise.
Nice intro. I hope you paid for that license of Gotham....
Also, I hope Bisu owns, Effort owns, and Fantasy does some weird build with reapers thors and ravens, since hellions can't be microed worth crap, he can't be a terrorist anymore, just someone who does weird builds. =(
I'm confused. According to liquipedia KT Rolster vs Team 8 should be on today as well. Yet no one has mentioned it / it seems like this isn't true? Anyone know whats going on?
On May 27 2012 11:41 grungust wrote: I'm confused. According to liquipedia KT Rolster vs Team 8 should be on today as well. Yet no one has mentioned it / it seems like this isn't true? Anyone know whats going on?
disciple, I think you should switch the sides that you have the players on (so SKT :: CJ) or label the sides since it might be confusing for people who don't know which player is on which team.
On May 27 2012 13:37 baubo wrote: Getting used to rampstasis has to be the biggest adjustment for BW players. There's simply nothing even remotely similar in BW.
Well there kind of is in PvP as well... once you've got your goons + reavers in place below the other guy's ramp. It's just the guy who's trapped has slightly more options, due to reaver drops being so much more dangerous.
On May 27 2012 13:37 baubo wrote: Getting used to rampstasis has to be the biggest adjustment for BW players. There's simply nothing even remotely similar in BW.
On May 27 2012 13:36 sM.Zik wrote: Im a new Sc2 player and I like the game dont get me wrong but force field are stupid right now. They need to fix this in some way :\
Okay I'm fixing protoss right here and now. Forcefields can be destroyed but there's an upgrade for the lategame to make them undestroyable.
Looks like it's going to take a while for the concept of forcefields to really click with some of these players. There were so many opportunities for Bisu to use them (to defend his naked immortal-stalker from 4 zealots at the bottom of the ramp, for example), but either he was conserving them or it just didn't register that he should use them in that way. And for some reason he didn't want to make colossi even though it was clear he wasn't going to leave his base without them... this is a pretty common PvP scenario.
I'm just really scared of how good these toss are going to be once they really understand FF's potential.
On May 27 2012 13:36 sM.Zik wrote: Im a new Sc2 player and I like the game dont get me wrong but force field are stupid right now. They need to fix this in some way :\
Since you are new to SC2 you probably don't know that they can be broken. Protoss actually have the easiest ways to break forcefields with collosi and archons which are both common units in PvP. Zergs have ultralisks which do get appearances sometimes in ZvP. Terran only have thors which you almost never see in TvP.
On May 27 2012 13:36 sM.Zik wrote: Im a new Sc2 player and I like the game dont get me wrong but force field are stupid right now. They need to fix this in some way :\
Okay I'm fixing protoss right here and now. Forcefields can be destroyed but there's an upgrade for the lategame to make them undestroyable.
It'll be funny to see forcefields trap ultras and thors ~.~
On May 27 2012 13:37 disciple wrote: I don't think he played bad tho, really cant make anything out of a PvP
PvP has become one of the most exciting matchups. Split second decision making and control is paramount, and these guys are just not showing any good PvP games yet. Any game in this Pro League is not any way similar to real top level SC2. You'll be very excited soon.
On May 27 2012 13:36 sM.Zik wrote: Im a new Sc2 player and I like the game dont get me wrong but force field are stupid right now. They need to fix this in some way :\
oh no doubt, they are. Anything in a game that removes your opponents ability to micro is stupid.
But protoss is so reliant on them in this game it that it would take a complete game redesign to remove them.
On May 27 2012 13:41 Bear4188 wrote: Terran can bypass them with the abundant medivacs they often have in TvP, however. Takes some quick hands to do but it's viable.
And if the protoss has equally quick hands they will just snipe down your medivacs as you try to do this. This becomes easier with blink.
On May 27 2012 13:37 baubo wrote: Getting used to rampstasis has to be the biggest adjustment for BW players. There's simply nothing even remotely similar in BW.
Well there kind of is in PvP as well... once you've got your goons + reavers in place below the other guy's ramp. It's just the guy who's trapped has slightly more options, due to reaver drops being so much more dangerous.
Very different. ONe is because reaver is tier 2-3 tech, whereas forcefield's a tier 1/1.5 tech. In addition, you can break out of reaver choke with more units and/or reaver of your own. You can't with forcefields even with twice the unit count. If you don't have templar tech, you literally are stuck in your base.
On May 27 2012 13:37 baubo wrote: Getting used to rampstasis has to be the biggest adjustment for BW players. There's simply nothing even remotely similar in BW.
Well there kind of is in PvP as well... once you've got your goons + reavers in place below the other guy's ramp. It's just the guy who's trapped has slightly more options, due to reaver drops being so much more dangerous.
Very different. ONe is because reaver is tier 2-3 tech, whereas forcefield's a tier 1/1.5 tech. In addition, you can break out of reaver choke with more units and/or reaver of your own. You can't with forcefields even with twice the unit count. If you don't have templar tech, you literally are stuck in your base.
Until you get collosus which is a staple PvP unit......
On May 27 2012 13:36 sM.Zik wrote: Im a new Sc2 player and I like the game dont get me wrong but force field are stupid right now. They need to fix this in some way :\
Since you are new to SC2 you probably don't know that they can be broken. Protoss actually have the easiest ways to break forcefields with collosi and archons which are both common units in PvP. Zergs have ultralisks which do get appearances sometimes in ZvP. Terran only have thors which you almost never see in TvP.
Hmm yeah I see, I didnt think about this fact. I made the switch only 2 weeks ago and im playing zerg.
On May 27 2012 13:40 Exia0276 wrote: The elephant fell over
Just wait! Oh and Jaedong & Flash both have a game tonight, we might get some surprise!
On May 27 2012 13:37 baubo wrote: Getting used to rampstasis has to be the biggest adjustment for BW players. There's simply nothing even remotely similar in BW.
Well there kind of is in PvP as well... once you've got your goons + reavers in place below the other guy's ramp. It's just the guy who's trapped has slightly more options, due to reaver drops being so much more dangerous.
Very different. ONe is because reaver is tier 2-3 tech, whereas forcefield's a tier 1/1.5 tech. In addition, you can break out of reaver choke with more units and/or reaver of your own. You can't with forcefields even with twice the unit count. If you don't have templar tech, you literally are stuck in your base.
things like blink, colossus tech or archons negate forcefields pretty much. its pretty risky to have gas heavy units below the opponents ramp without knowing exaclty what he got. furthermore, you can denie such play from the very beginning.
once Bisu saw forcefields below his ramp, he shouldve immediatly gone for the robobay (colossus tech) and only warpin zealots (colossus = gas intensive on 1 base) from that point on to move down with the first colossus and try to win iwth a 1 base push. it was pretty much the only chance he had after he kind of screwed up the warpprism + mainarmy 2 prompt attack.
On May 27 2012 13:46 cablesc wrote: Fantasy in a TvT. This should be good.
Mech incoming? At least hellions, right?
he doesn't like hellions.
Do you find TvP difficult in Starcraft 2?
It’s not easy but not impossible either. I am so sad about the fact that there are no vultures in Starcraft 2 but I don’t like how the hellion attacks so I won’t be using it in their place.
On May 27 2012 13:36 sM.Zik wrote: Im a new Sc2 player and I like the game dont get me wrong but force field are stupid right now. They need to fix this in some way :\
oh no doubt, they are. Anything in a game that removes your opponents ability to micro is stupid.
But protoss is so reliant on them in this game it that it would take a complete game redesign to remove them.
This.
I play protoss and I wish they get rid of forcefields. Why? So that protoss get buffed in open area engagements. Protoss are too reliant on forcefields to turn bad odds in their favour.
I just realized why I find these games so interesting. It's not because of the level of play, particularly, because obviously GSL is higher at the moment. But the reason why I find it cool to watch this is because they are all on even footing with only a month or so of prep. If they had all played for 2 years and were only this good, then yeah, it sucks and nobody would watch. But it's facinating to see them pick up the learning curve and "innovate" based on their lack of "normal play" knowledge.
So people saying "they are only high masters" or "low GM" in Korea are completely missing the point (and also wrong from what I hear... as tons of them are in GMs already). Its interesting because literally we are getting to see incredibly RTS players essentially wake up in 2012 and start learning SC2 midway through its development.
I mean seriously. No matter how good you were at SC1, you gotta learn the game before you can really apply your skills. These guys are doing pretty decently considering.
Wow... this is just plain bad. Proleauge teams really need to get some SC2 coaches to help them figure some of this stuff out as all those rax should have reactors. Woojin terrans will get a big advantage with the former Slayers coach.
Ok guys, I'm reassured now, Fantasy got at least one hell of a stutter step. That's a good start, I know another Terran who started by stutter stepping marines.
bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
On May 27 2012 14:13 ZenithM wrote: Ok guys, I'm reassured now, Fantasy got at least one hell of a stutter step. That's a good start, I know another Terran who started by stutter stepping marines.
except he stutters the medivacs too which reduces time they can heal
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
not dealing with the constant banshees that ruined his worker line
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
he did no damage with those little elevator pushes
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
He was too aggressive and ended up losing units when he could have just waited for a bigger force, like when he dropped tanks in the opponents main and lost a bunch of stuff, or when he sneaked into the natural and sieged up there.
On May 27 2012 14:13 ZenithM wrote: Ok guys, I'm reassured now, Fantasy got at least one hell of a stutter step. That's a good start, I know another Terran who started by stutter stepping marines.
Fantasy showing an insane amount of potential. Just a little rough around the edges, which is understandable given that he barely has any experience with Terran and he is also practicing BW at the same time.
Some of you are way too critical of these guys and should really rewatch the earlier GSL seasons. They were so unbelievably fuckign worse then anything we see here.
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
Refusing to make turrets and saving all his energy for scans. fantasy had it won after he killed BByong's nat I think. But he kept overcommitting instead of macroing up. Insane micro from both players though.
Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
he shouldve build 2 turrents per mineralline, like he kept losing all his scvs the whole game long :D wouldve easily won 15 minutes earlier with just slightly better banshee defense^^
although its very, very uncommon to build banshees the whole game long oO
On May 27 2012 14:13 ZenithM wrote: Ok guys, I'm reassured now, Fantasy got at least one hell of a stutter step. That's a good start, I know another Terran who started by stutter stepping marines.
except he stutters the medivacs too which reduces time they can heal
Hmm, every pro terran does that. I agree that it's suboptimal micro, but if you kite only with your marines, the medivacs start trailing behind and are killed off anyway.
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
He was definitely significantly ahead most of the game if you judged from supply, tech, upgrades, tank count, positioning (scv count was about the same). But he made some really awful engagements where he almost lost his huge advantages... at a lot of these points if you looked at the supply and units it seemed like he still had a slight advantage, but just looking at the screen it definitely looked like he was starting to lose, although I don't think it was true save for maybe a point or two towards the end.
And that's not to mention the banshees doing insane damage to his economy as well throughout the game. Still I think he was ahead for most of it.
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
He didn't deal with banshee harass that well, losing a ton of workers. And some of his engagements were slopping, running marines into tank fire and whatnot. Clearly these guys have a lot of talent, but the game sense and some of the more advanced tactics will take time.
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
Refusing to make turrets and saving all his energy for scans. fantasy had it won after he killed BByong's nat I think. But he kept overcommitting instead of macroing up. Insane micro from both players though.
On May 27 2012 14:13 ZenithM wrote: Ok guys, I'm reassured now, Fantasy got at least one hell of a stutter step. That's a good start, I know another Terran who started by stutter stepping marines.
except he stutters the medivacs too which reduces time they can heal
Hmm, every pro terran does that. I agree that it's suboptimal micro, but if you kite only with your marines, the medivacs start trailing behind and are killed off anyway.
not in that situation, and most progamers don't do it. it's situational whether you move them or not, but doing it like that is suboptimal for sure, it's just a ctrl+click and you're away
On May 27 2012 14:15 Lann555 wrote: Fantasy showing an insane amount of potential. Just a little rough around the edges, which is understandable given that he barely has any experience with Terran and he is also practicing BW at the same time.
Some of you are way too critical of these guys and should really rewatch the earlier GSL seasons. They were so unbelievably fuckign worse then anything we see here.
AND FUCK YEAH FANTASY!
I personally liked Light vs Turn and Sea vs Skyhigh more . There game seemed more refined .
On May 27 2012 14:16 o[twist] wrote: thanks for the explanations guys, i'm trying my best to give this sc2 thing a chance and that game certainly looked exciting haha
I don't want to be cynical, but you are better of watching the GSL, where there are less PvPs and more high-level exciting games.
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
he shouldve build 2 turrents per mineralline, like he kept losing all his scvs the whole game long :D wouldve easily won 15 minutes earlier with just slightly better banshee defense^^
although its very, very uncommon to build banshees the whole game long oO
One raven would have done the trick. But even GSL terrans don't seem to want to build ravens.
On May 27 2012 14:13 Odal wrote: I fucking love this. Perfect macro, perfect micro, TERRIBLE decision making. It's adorable.
macro and micro were so far from perfect in this game, i would probably outmacro them with terran ^^
haha get real scrub
first of all, there is no reason to call anyone a scrub without knowing who you are talking to. and 2nd, any1 who says that anything in this game was "perfect" is just a huge fanboy who probably just watched 3 sc2 games total.
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
Refusing to make turrets and saving all his energy for scans. fantasy had it won after he killed BByong's nat I think. But he kept overcommitting instead of macroing up. Insane micro from both players though.
Like the insane Banshee micro? lol. Or just runnung all SCV's in stimmed marines with no backup? I don't doubt their abilities, they just can't apply them very good to SC2 yet.
On May 27 2012 14:13 ZenithM wrote: Ok guys, I'm reassured now, Fantasy got at least one hell of a stutter step. That's a good start, I know another Terran who started by stutter stepping marines.
except he stutters the medivacs too which reduces time they can heal
Hmm, every pro terran does that. I agree that it's suboptimal micro, but if you kite only with your marines, the medivacs start trailing behind and are killed off anyway.
not in that situation, and most progamers don't do it. it's situational whether you move them or not, but doing it like that is suboptimal for sure, it's just a ctrl+click and you're away
Yeah I know, but I don't think it was a bad decision in this case. There were blue marines chasing him behind the SCVs, they would have gotten the medivac had he only moved the marines. But maybe we're talking about another part of the game.
On May 27 2012 14:16 o[twist] wrote: thanks for the explanations guys, i'm trying my best to give this sc2 thing a chance and that game certainly looked exciting haha
I don't want to be cynical, but you are better of watching the GSL, where there are less PvPs and more high-level exciting games.
i'll stick with the joint PL for now but i appreciate the thought
On May 27 2012 14:13 o[twist] wrote: bw person here, from my perspective it looked like fanta had been doing almost all of the damage all game, but people in here seemed to think he was losing at several points... where was he going long that made him behind at those points?
he shouldve build 2 turrents per mineralline, like he kept losing all his scvs the whole game long :D wouldve easily won 15 minutes earlier with just slightly better banshee defense^^
although its very, very uncommon to build banshees the whole game long oO
One raven would have done the trick. But even GSL terrans don't seem to want to build ravens.
1 raven doesnt do the trick when there is banshees harassing everywhere^^ turrents are way better for that purpose. although a raven is never wrong in tvt simply for airfights (pdd viking v viking for air vision)
On May 27 2012 14:15 Lann555 wrote: Fantasy showing an insane amount of potential. Just a little rough around the edges, which is understandable given that he barely has any experience with Terran and he is also practicing BW at the same time.
Some of you are way too critical of these guys and should really rewatch the earlier GSL seasons. They were so unbelievably fuckign worse then anything we see here.
AND FUCK YEAH FANTASY!
I personally liked Light vs Turn and Sea vs Skyhigh more . There game seemed more refined .
True. Skyhigh looked better TvT, but Fantasy never really looks refined. The weird/offbeat games are part of his strength imho, so I'm happy to see it carries over to Sc2
On May 27 2012 14:16 o[twist] wrote: thanks for the explanations guys, i'm trying my best to give this sc2 thing a chance and that game certainly looked exciting haha
I don't want to be cynical, but you are better of watching the GSL, where there are less PvPs and more high-level exciting games.
You have to understand though that watching a bunch of players you don't know is not as fun as watching players you know and watched for several years. The kespa players switching from bw to sc2 is the only reason I also made the switch.
But of course GSL games are currently way better, ive already watched quite a lot to help me learn the game.
On May 27 2012 14:13 Odal wrote: I fucking love this. Perfect macro, perfect micro, TERRIBLE decision making. It's adorable.
macro and micro were so far from perfect in this game, i would probably outmacro them with terran ^^
haha get real scrub
first of all, there is no reason to call anyone a scrub without knowing who you are talking to. and 2nd, any1 who says that anything in this game was "perfect" is just a huge fanboy who probably just watched 3 sc2 games total.
Yes mister bigshot european gm player must have better mechanics than the best mechanical players in the world. my bad.
"knowing who you are talking to". Yes i bow before your feet sir.
I'm a massive fantasy fanboy and all but if you think he had perfect macro your smoking some pretty strong stuff. He was supply blocked for almost 1 minute and 30 seconds at 51 supply. As soon as that depot finished his supply shot up to cap again, showing that he most certainly had units queued up.
what a question... clear 3-0 for lastshadow -,- fantasy is probably mid master NA level right now, which is perfectly fine from how much time he invested.
On May 27 2012 14:13 Odal wrote: I fucking love this. Perfect macro, perfect micro, TERRIBLE decision making. It's adorable.
macro and micro were so far from perfect in this game, i would probably outmacro them with terran ^^
haha get real scrub
first of all, there is no reason to call anyone a scrub without knowing who you are talking to. and 2nd, any1 who says that anything in this game was "perfect" is just a huge fanboy who probably just watched 3 sc2 games total.
Ur what? Grand master NA? People are insulting you cause your full of yourself. These guys are atleast masters Korean ladder or they wouldn't even send them out,
He played sloppy and bad yes. But claims that they are so bad that you could even beat them is alittle immature?
On May 27 2012 14:13 Odal wrote: I fucking love this. Perfect macro, perfect micro, TERRIBLE decision making. It's adorable.
macro and micro were so far from perfect in this game, i would probably outmacro them with terran ^^
haha get real scrub
first of all, there is no reason to call anyone a scrub without knowing who you are talking to. and 2nd, any1 who says that anything in this game was "perfect" is just a huge fanboy who probably just watched 3 sc2 games total.
Yes mister bigshot european gm player must have better mechanics than the best mechanical players in the world. my bad.
"knowing who you are talking to". Yes i bow before your feet sir.
mechanics =/= executed micro and macro in a new game. god, i should better stop reading goldlevel-fanboy comments in LR threads.
On May 27 2012 14:13 Odal wrote: I fucking love this. Perfect macro, perfect micro, TERRIBLE decision making. It's adorable.
macro and micro were so far from perfect in this game, i would probably outmacro them with terran ^^
haha get real scrub
first of all, there is no reason to call anyone a scrub without knowing who you are talking to. and 2nd, any1 who says that anything in this game was "perfect" is just a huge fanboy who probably just watched 3 sc2 games total.
Ur what? Grand master NA? People are insulting you cause your full of yourself. These guys are atleast masters Korean ladder or they wouldn't even send them out,
The guy decided to pm me his insults because he's too scared to post them here. Apparently he's top 100 gm in europe and is telling my gold league ass to get out of here. He got me good! I am a gold league scrub I guess. /retardation
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
On May 27 2012 14:13 Odal wrote: I fucking love this. Perfect macro, perfect micro, TERRIBLE decision making. It's adorable.
macro and micro were so far from perfect in this game, i would probably outmacro them with terran ^^
haha get real scrub
first of all, there is no reason to call anyone a scrub without knowing who you are talking to. and 2nd, any1 who says that anything in this game was "perfect" is just a huge fanboy who probably just watched 3 sc2 games total.
Yes mister bigshot european gm player must have better mechanics than the best mechanical players in the world. my bad.
"knowing who you are talking to". Yes i bow before your feet sir.
mechanics =/= executed micro and macro in a new game. god, i should better stop reading goldlevel-fanboy comments in LR threads.
This attitude will get you far. Yes you are gm in europe. Yes you are better than these players. Yes I have been gold league since I started this game and will forever be gold league.
what a question... clear 3-0 for lastshadow -,- fantasy is probably mid master NA level right now, which is perfectly fine from how much time he invested.
Well TT1 says most of these guys are GM in Korea (some Top 50) or high Masters in Korea. I mean, take it for what you will.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
what a question... clear 3-0 for lastshadow -,- fantasy is probably mid master NA level right now, which is perfectly fine from how much time he invested.
Well TT1 says some of these guys are top 50 GM in Korea or high Masters in Korea. I mean, take it for what you will.
well, effort and zer0 clearly are, their play is already refined and they show great understanding and execution. Fantasy is not at this stage yet.
this doesnt have to mean much though, we shouldnt put too much in the first games we see them play sc2... i just dont like ppl who see this game and talk about perfect micro and macro...
put a random code A terran against fantasy and tell both to macro up without doing anything else - im sure the code A level terran will have about a 200 vs 150 supply advantage. and the code A terrans macro is far from perfect obviously.
The biggest problem for these guys will be the psychological stress after losing to GSL guys in their first meet ups. That's why I expect only the really strong characters to successfully tranfer over. Skill doesn't matter at all in these circumstances.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game during the finals. (Flash's first TvT loss in forever). ?
effort had a 10+ drone lead for all of that, which is why he accumulated a bank, and then lost the drones because he hadn't been able to spend it. basically the money mined by those drones allowed him to go lair and spire without dying.
but he had the money to make a roach warren or extra spines or double queens, or even just a whole lot more banelings, which would have prevented him taking any damage.
On May 27 2012 14:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Wait does Soo not have any Queens?
He prefers Kings.
Effort killed them off.
I thought that happened further back. Then again, I have terrible judgment of time in ZvZ. Everything's so fast. I remember before the Beta even came out there was a 2v2 demonstration at Blizzcon, and that was the first time I got to see Speedlings on Creep. It was amazing.
On May 27 2012 14:40 [Aot]_Aether wrote: I'm not sure how Effort was able to secure an advantage.
Soo went all in on ling/bane and had way too many cost inefficient engagements. Effort held the line and teched to mutas. Soo didn't even have an evo when he finally saw Effort's mutas already on the field.
Effort droned harder than Soo and played defensively with banelings. Soo showed some nice aggression, but was so low on drone count / tech. He killed some drones, some queens, but never managed to do crippling damage. The gas investment in banelings made it impossible for him to properly tech while Effort managed to maintain a drone lead while teching and defending. GG.
On May 27 2012 14:39 KalWarkov wrote: as i said, effort is just in a completely different level than a fantasy in sc2 atm^^
Fantasy could care less as he will be winning maybe the last BW OSL.
Don't waste your time with this guy. He's been spending his entire last 20 minutes pming me about how he has a 50% win rate against white-ra and how he's got amazing macro and micro compared to Fantasy.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
None of it is even remotely impressive? Oh I'm sorry. We don't usually have proleague seasons where someone goes 50-0 and wins 2 starleagues and the grandfinals, but I'll let you know if it ever happens.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
None of it is even remotely impressive? Oh I'm sorry. We don't usually have proleague seasons where someone goes 50-0 and wins 2 starleagues and the grandfinals, but I'll let you know if it ever happens.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
None of it is even remotely impressive? Oh I'm sorry. We don't usually have proleague seasons where someone goes 50-0 and wins 2 starleagues and the grandfinals, but I'll let you know if it ever happens.
We also don't usually have seasons where a mere 14-2 PL record and a silver medal is enough to be called #1. I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that things used to be harder in the past.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
None of it is even remotely impressive? Oh I'm sorry. We don't usually have proleague seasons where someone goes 50-0 and wins 2 starleagues and the grandfinals, but I'll let you know if it ever happens.
We also don't usually have seasons where a mere 14-2 PL record and a silver medal is enough to be called #1. I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that things used to be harder in the past.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
None of it is even remotely impressive? Oh I'm sorry. We don't usually have proleague seasons where someone goes 50-0 and wins 2 starleagues and the grandfinals, but I'll let you know if it ever happens.
We also don't usually have seasons where a mere 14-2 PL record and a silver medal is enough to be called #1. I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that things used to be harder in the past.
I never said he was better than oov in 2004, sAviOr in 2006, or whatever, I said he was the best player last season. Stop trying to discredit him just because he wasn't perfect. The only other person you could reasonably make an arguement for is Flash, but going off the most recent events, Fantasy had both a better individual and team league record.
On May 27 2012 14:39 KalWarkov wrote: as i said, effort is just in a completely different level than a fantasy in sc2 atm^^
Fantasy could care less as he will be winning maybe the last BW OSL.
Don't waste your time with this guy. He's been spending his entire last 20 minutes pming me about how he has a 50% win rate against white-ra and how he's got amazing macro and micro compared to Fantasy.
On May 27 2012 14:15 ppshchik wrote: Disagree or not, Fantasy is the best Broodwar player atm if you look at his recent winrates and results. He's so underrated i t's kind of disgusting that he doesn't have the fame of Bisu / Jaedong
Wow, he's the best Brood War player when everyone else is practicing another game. What an achievement!
He was the best player last season, and has been a consistent top 3 in the past two years. It has nothing to do with the two game split.
What exactly did he do last season to warrant being called the best player?
Runner up in one of the closest OSLs of all time, best record throughout the regular proleague season, including some pretty cluth wins, didn't drop a game in the postseason and beat flash convincingly in a macro game. ?
None of that is even remotely impressive to me. I think it says a lot about the current state of the scene that accomplishments like that are enough to make him #1. I mean come on, he only played 16 games in Proleague. That's a joke.
None of it is even remotely impressive? Oh I'm sorry. We don't usually have proleague seasons where someone goes 50-0 and wins 2 starleagues and the grandfinals, but I'll let you know if it ever happens.
We also don't usually have seasons where a mere 14-2 PL record and a silver medal is enough to be called #1. I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that things used to be harder in the past.
I never said he was better than oov in 2004, sAviOr in 2006, or whatever, I said he was the best player last season. Stop trying to discredit him just because he wasn't perfect. The only other person you could reasonably make an arguement for is Flash, but going off the most recent events, Fantasy had both a better individual and team league record.
ignore J1.au, just recall his rage after last SPL final. Excuses he was making after KT defeat made that day. Besides he is a LITTLE right, even if that doesnt change the fact that Fantasy was the nr 1 player last season.
On May 27 2012 16:43 kamikami wrote: No Bisu noooooooo !!! Next time prove yr level of handsomeness plz. This is just a fluke !!!!
Don't worry, Bisu is still handsome, but the state of his game theory is ugly.
When he warped in those extra units instead of starting his Robo, I knew he was in trouble. I'm keeping the faith. Bisu is a hard worker. I can totally see him grinding out games and watching vods this weekend to shore up his weaknesses.
On May 27 2012 16:43 kamikami wrote: No Bisu noooooooo !!! Next time prove yr level of handsomeness plz. This is just a fluke !!!!
Don't worry, Bisu is still handsome, but the state of his game theory is ugly.
When he warped in those extra units instead of starting his Robo, I knew he was in trouble. I'm keeping the faith. Bisu is a hard worker. I can totally see him grinding out games and watching vods this weekend to shore up his weaknesses.
No dude, unfortunately he is doing skin care and haircut this weekend lol, but that's why he's my favorite :D.
Effort played pretty damn well, the unit control from him during those ling/bane wars was top notch. Definitely seems like he will become a high tier SC2 player (if he isn't close already).
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/disciple/str.jpg)
hehe, using biomech too 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HV1Ya.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000943726/SM1082Cripple_Fight_Posters_xlarge.jpeg)
