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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 26 2012 23:42 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 23:21 Douillos wrote:On April 26 2012 23:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 26 2012 22:56 vthree wrote:
Do Protoss players have selective memory. Why are People saying that
there hasn't been a p>t ro8 in so long when it happened LAST season. And
MADNESS? It occurs just as much as p>t ro8 seasons... It was called GomTvT for a reason. Nothing was worse than GomTvT. People could stay in Code S for seasons on a single matchup. As Artosis says - the best players atm are playing protoss and I agree. There's exceptions but overall there's a sick good protoss lineup of players who are sick good overall. I beg to differ. Protoss players are all specialists in one matchup. I havent seen a well rounded protoss yet. That definitily takes a lot away from the "best players" argument. Uh ... Squirtle? Good at PvP and PvZ, on a hot streak in PvT? Dunno why people are whining about balance; what happened was a bunch of the good PvTers got knocked out in the first group stage match-ups, and MKP blew his big chance yesterday. I'm a Terran, and watching MKP/Polt play TvP makes the MU look stupidly imbalanced for Terran. When Parting plays, he makes PvT look imbalanced against anyone who isn't MKP and Polt.
Not unless parting gets cheesed out, like in IPL or MLG recently. players need to bunker rush and 1-1-1 parting more if they want to win.
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On April 26 2012 23:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 23:42 babylon wrote:On April 26 2012 23:21 Douillos wrote:On April 26 2012 23:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 26 2012 22:56 vthree wrote:
Do Protoss players have selective memory. Why are People saying that
there hasn't been a p>t ro8 in so long when it happened LAST season. And
MADNESS? It occurs just as much as p>t ro8 seasons... It was called GomTvT for a reason. Nothing was worse than GomTvT. People could stay in Code S for seasons on a single matchup. As Artosis says - the best players atm are playing protoss and I agree. There's exceptions but overall there's a sick good protoss lineup of players who are sick good overall. I beg to differ. Protoss players are all specialists in one matchup. I havent seen a well rounded protoss yet. That definitily takes a lot away from the "best players" argument. Uh ... Squirtle? Good at PvP and PvZ, on a hot streak in PvT? Dunno why people are whining about balance; what happened was a bunch of the good PvTers got knocked out in the first group stage match-ups, and MKP blew his big chance yesterday. I'm a Terran, and watching MKP/Polt play TvP makes the MU look stupidly imbalanced for Terran. When Parting plays, he makes PvT look imbalanced against anyone who isn't MKP and Polt. Not unless parting gets cheesed out, like in IPL or MLG recently. players need to bunker rush and 1-1-1 parting more if they want to win.
Or just pull the plug and stage a "disconnect"
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On April 26 2012 23:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 22:56 vthree wrote:
Do Protoss players have selective memory. Why are People saying that
there hasn't been a p>t ro8 in so long when it happened LAST season. And
MADNESS? It occurs just as much as p>t ro8 seasons... It was called GomTvT for a reason. Nothing was worse than GomTvT. People could stay in Code S for seasons on a single matchup. As Artosis says - the best players atm are playing protoss and I agree. There's exceptions but overall there's a sick good protoss lineup of players who are sick good overall.
Doesn't change the fact that TvT is a great match-up, while any match-up involving protoss ends up in a massive AoE fest that's absolutely terrible from a spectators point of view. Endgame PvP is just two blobs with lasers everywhere for 20 seconds until someone wins, endgame PvT is ghosts being effective or not followed by 20 seconds of blobs fighting and then going in favor of one of the players. The only variation is when someone tries to all-in early.
As a spectator, the fewer protosses in a tournament the more entertaining it is.
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On April 26 2012 23:32 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 23:24 HaXXspetten wrote:On April 26 2012 23:16 opterown wrote:
Nani 3-2 Mvp
Oz 3-1 Parting
Hero 3-2 Suno
Taeja 3-2 Squirtle
Oz 3-1 Nani
Taeja 3-1 Hero
Oz 4-3 Taeja
Hoping ^^ Sounds incredibly unlikely imo. What's the most unlikely pick? Obv I am a bit biased for Oz though haha
Well for one, no way in hell I would favor Oz over Taeja, although given the brackets it's most likely that Squirtle would be the winner of the lower half.
I'd go with something like:
NaNiwa 3-1 Mvp
PartinG 3-2 Oz
SuperNoVa 3-1 HerO
Squirtle 3-1 Taeja
Oz should be favored against PartinG on paper, but quite frankly he did not impress me with his so called "god-tier" PvP today, and PartinG's PvP is still relatively unknown, but he did say straight up that he actually wanted to play some PvP in the Ro8, so I've got a feeling he's not as terrible at it as some people say. Still very hard to predict though.
PartinG 3-1 NaNiwa
Squirtle 3-0 SuperNoVa
In the end, I do not think Squirtle could lose a PvP series at this point, thus:
Squirtle 4-2 PartinG
If Oz would take out PartinG in the Ro8, then he'll probably beat NaNi as well, then go on to have a rematch with Squirtle in the finals, only to lose again.
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I have a feeling that taeja is going to make it to the finals this tourny for some reason.
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When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 26 2012 23:56 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 23:32 opterown wrote:On April 26 2012 23:24 HaXXspetten wrote:On April 26 2012 23:16 opterown wrote:
Nani 3-2 Mvp
Oz 3-1 Parting
Hero 3-2 Suno
Taeja 3-2 Squirtle
Oz 3-1 Nani
Taeja 3-1 Hero
Oz 4-3 Taeja
Hoping ^^ Sounds incredibly unlikely imo. Oz should be favored against PartinG on paper, but quite frankly he did not impress me with his so called "god-tier" PvP today, and PartinG's PvP is still relatively unknown, but he did say straight up that he actually wanted to play some PvP in the Ro8, so I've got a feeling he's not as terrible at it as some people say. Still very hard to predict though.
PartinG's not baaadddd at PvP, but he said he wanted to face MC in the Ro8, and MC's PvP has been a bit derp of late. I still think/hope Oz is favoured - plus, FXO has always gotten a player in the semis for the past 2 seasons, and this looks to be a good one too
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On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill?
Thank you.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Someone should TP Dustin Browder's house. 
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Austria24417 Posts
On April 26 2012 23:52 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 23:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 26 2012 22:56 vthree wrote:
Do Protoss players have selective memory. Why are People saying that
there hasn't been a p>t ro8 in so long when it happened LAST season. And
MADNESS? It occurs just as much as p>t ro8 seasons... It was called GomTvT for a reason. Nothing was worse than GomTvT. People could stay in Code S for seasons on a single matchup. As Artosis says - the best players atm are playing protoss and I agree. There's exceptions but overall there's a sick good protoss lineup of players who are sick good overall. Doesn't change the fact that TvT is a great match-up, while any match-up involving protoss ends up in a massive AoE fest that's absolutely terrible from a spectators point of view. Endgame PvP is just two blobs with lasers everywhere for 20 seconds until someone wins, endgame PvT is ghosts being effective or not followed by 20 seconds of blobs fighting and then going in favor of one of the players. The only variation is when someone tries to all-in early. As a spectator, the fewer protosses in a tournament the more entertaining it is.
Now that's where I see that all you really want is terrans advancing because you're biased. Guess that ends the conversation. You clearly don't care about who the better players are.
On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill?
Once again, you're leaving out the part where Terran had at least 15 (!!!!) players in the first round for 5-6 seasons, was meanwhile winning every single tournament in the world and was crushing everything.
What we have now is a SINGLE Code S tournament with 5 protoss in the Ro8 that still had 15 terrans in the first round but they got beaten. Now, MKP and ALive are both recent champions. So apparently Terran as a race ain't that bad, which was just the case for protoss because they were winning absolutely nothing, didn't even get close.
So yeah. This isn't about terran being bad. As Incontrol put it - "Terrans balance crying is like Bill Gates complaining about tax raises."
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On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill?
This is round 16, this season wasnt "Stacked" with protoss at the start. When it was at its worst, code S was 60% Terran during the first round. That has never happened with any other race.
You have to look at the race ratio that gets seeded into ro32, not the race ratio in round of 16. There have been soo many GSL tournaments where no protoss player made it past the round of 16, but that has never happened to Terran.
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Man if protoss doesn´t win this GSL I doubt they ever will.
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On April 27 2012 00:22 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill? This is round 16, this season wasnt "Stacked" with protoss at the start. When it was at its worst, code S was 60% Terran during the first round. That has never happened with any other race.
Point is that right now, T isn't better than all the other races, T and P are quite balanced 
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Do you think the P's were playing as well then as they were this season?
If not, then T's were winning because of higher skill, just as P are doing better now as they have become better.
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On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill?
Code S isn't stacked with Protosses. There are still 50% more Terrans than Protosses in Code S (15 vs 10). There were the same number of the two in the Ro16 (7v7), and it's 5v3 in the Ro8. To propose that the current situation is analogous to the time when there were 20 Terrans in the Ro32, 10 in the Ro16 (vs 1 Protoss) and 6 in the Ro8 is ludicrous. The biggest similarity is that Zergs now are doing as badly as Protosses were then.
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So much wilfull craziness in this thread...
Example in point:
On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill?
People couldn't shut up about race balance because the statistics were showing consistent racial imbalance over time, with Terran generally on top of the board and Protoss at the bottom. Since then statistics have evened up, thereby implying racial balance. Therefore any difference in numbers is either:
1. Racial balance that hasn't yet affected statistics and will become apparent in the near future.
or
2. The players of that race just flat out not being as skilled.
What illustrates racial imbalance is NOT how many players of a particular race are in a particular tournament but how well they do over multiple competitions. Terran is still winning stuff, simple as that.
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On April 27 2012 00:13 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 00:05 architecture wrote:
When code S was stacked with T's (note that code A wasn't), people couldn't shut up about how it was about race balance. And now when code S is stacked with P, it's suddenly about player skill? Thank you.
If Maru won 1 more game it would have been 4T,4P. Please define 'stacked'. The number of Terran and Toss at every stage of this current GSL season has been more or less even. In GomTvT we had seasons with like 7T,1Z in the ro8... =/
And that was starting with like 16T,8Z,8P in Ro32....
The current Code S season is actually 15T, 10P, 7Z... rofl. Parting and Squirtle killed a lot of Terrans. Are we really gonna discuss balance because two guys on the same team got really good at PvT? The sample size is sooo small. Last season was also 15/32 T to start, 8/16 RO32, etc. In fact, the finals could have been TvT if Alive and Gumiho both won. Similarly, this season could end up still being a TvT finals between MVP and Supernova/Taeja.
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On April 27 2012 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 23:52 Derez wrote:On April 26 2012 23:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 26 2012 22:56 vthree wrote:
Do Protoss players have selective memory. Why are People saying that
there hasn't been a p>t ro8 in so long when it happened LAST season. And
MADNESS? It occurs just as much as p>t ro8 seasons... It was called GomTvT for a reason. Nothing was worse than GomTvT. People could stay in Code S for seasons on a single matchup. As Artosis says - the best players atm are playing protoss and I agree. There's exceptions but overall there's a sick good protoss lineup of players who are sick good overall. Doesn't change the fact that TvT is a great match-up, while any match-up involving protoss ends up in a massive AoE fest that's absolutely terrible from a spectators point of view. Endgame PvP is just two blobs with lasers everywhere for 20 seconds until someone wins, endgame PvT is ghosts being effective or not followed by 20 seconds of blobs fighting and then going in favor of one of the players. The only variation is when someone tries to all-in early. As a spectator, the fewer protosses in a tournament the more entertaining it is. Now that's where I see that all you really want is terrans advancing because you're biased. Guess that ends the conversation. You clearly don't care about who the better players are.
All Terrans advancing isn't as interesting as a good mix of Terrans and Zergs. What I want in a tournament is the best games, and Protoss does not provide that. Protoss is boring to play and worse to watch, painful though it is to state as a former BW Protoss player. I agree with the above sentiment that fewer Protoss pretty much always yields better entertainment from a spectator's point of view.
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Austria24417 Posts
The curious thing is that people like DRG show that zerg can dominate, yet almost every other zerg is having a tough time. Do you think protoss players were just bad when terrans won everything? That's an absolutely ridiculous statement. Fact is terran was OP as hell, thus the nerfs. There were players who skillwise exceeded Code S Terrans by FAAAAAAAAAAAAR yet got beaten because PvT was just not winnable. And everybody who says Terran can't beat protoss right now is clearly not watching a lot of starcraft.
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On April 27 2012 00:27 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 26 2012 23:52 Derez wrote:On April 26 2012 23:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On April 26 2012 22:56 vthree wrote:
Do Protoss players have selective memory. Why are People saying that
there hasn't been a p>t ro8 in so long when it happened LAST season. And
MADNESS? It occurs just as much as p>t ro8 seasons... It was called GomTvT for a reason. Nothing was worse than GomTvT. People could stay in Code S for seasons on a single matchup. As Artosis says - the best players atm are playing protoss and I agree. There's exceptions but overall there's a sick good protoss lineup of players who are sick good overall. Doesn't change the fact that TvT is a great match-up, while any match-up involving protoss ends up in a massive AoE fest that's absolutely terrible from a spectators point of view. Endgame PvP is just two blobs with lasers everywhere for 20 seconds until someone wins, endgame PvT is ghosts being effective or not followed by 20 seconds of blobs fighting and then going in favor of one of the players. The only variation is when someone tries to all-in early. As a spectator, the fewer protosses in a tournament the more entertaining it is. Now that's where I see that all you really want is terrans advancing because you're biased. Guess that ends the conversation. You clearly don't care about who the better players are. All Terrans advancing isn't as interesting as a good mix of Terrans and Zergs. What I want in a tournament is the best games, and Protoss does not provide that. Protoss is boring to play and worse to watch, painful though it is to state as a former BW Protoss player. I agree with the above sentiment that fewer Protoss pretty much always yields better entertainment from a spectator's point of view.
Are you kidding? nothing is more boring than watching Bio and siege tanks.
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EPT
