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On March 27 2012 22:13 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:08 rothsbury wrote:On March 27 2012 22:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:On March 27 2012 22:01 rothsbury wrote:On March 27 2012 21:56 Fluffboll wrote:On March 27 2012 21:52 rothsbury wrote:On March 27 2012 21:50 Azzur wrote:
Terrans have no answer to this Zerg lategame composition
At least now anyways Eh, Gumiho was really unprepared for the broodlords in this match; he didn't start viking production until broods were already morphing. I think it is pretty balanced. Actually, if you produce enough vikings to take out the Brood Lords and Corruptors the tech switch to Ultra/Ling will kill you so Terran lategame is really bad versus zerg lategame at this moment in time. Terrans can still win vs zerg by not letting the zerg get to the lategame however. That's an economy issue then; broodlord/corruptor is really expensive, so if the terran has let the zerg get such an economic lead that the zerg can afford to lose all his corruptors and broods and then mass out of ultra/lings, then you were probably behind anyway. In a lot of broodlord corruptor pushes the zerg uses all of his money on those units, so if he loses them he can't really afford a big tech switch. I think that leads us to the point: Don't let zerg reach the lategame. I wouldn't call fast tech with no economy to back it up lategame. Lategame =/= letting zerg do whatever he wants. If you let the zerg sit on 5 bases without attacking for 20 mins, then yeah they gcan do that really expensive gas switch no problem. The idea is that even in the lategame you deny expansions, snipe expos, trade armies etc. so the zerg can't build up a giant bank while on 200/200. Edit: also drops are really good against zerg lategame. Couple of dropships can kill a lot of tech / drones etc.. Watch stephano plays. He has great multitasking. And simply deals with early attacks. There is no way (IMO) that you can do a lot of damage early game/midgame to a zerg who simply plays very well like stephano. What works on your ladder game isn't suppoed to work on top top zerg players. And its only gonna get worse in the future (zergs gonna get better and better), untill (if) the terran finds a way to beat the army.
Well yeah, but Stephano is hardly invincible. Also, what you're describing can be explained by Stephano being more skilled than the terrans he faces. (But again, he's not invincible; he is beaten by good terrans like Polt a lot of the time.) You can't just point to one good player and say "oh zerg can't be dealt with"; maybe you need a terran stephano?
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:11 Waxangel wrote:
curious such a beast at zvt now, wtf
He's always preferred it, people make too big a deal of him not having as good a record in it but it's not like his losses are ever really against bad players (since the code a he won it's alive, and mvp in BoX. 1-1 with mkp, lost bo1's to maru and jjakji)
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didnt know GOMTV shows shorts korean learning advices :D
Reaper = SaSin ^^
and then they show information of the music used :D
they are improving lot of things? or this is old?
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On March 27 2012 22:14 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:14 bittman wrote:On March 27 2012 22:13 Azzur wrote:On March 27 2012 22:12 bittman wrote:On March 27 2012 22:09 Angel_ wrote:
HerO Curious Rematch. excited.
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and no, Curious hasnt been making an ultralisk cavern. so realistically if Gumiho had bothered making vikings earlier he might have just been fine. =\ Vikings made after Broodlords have been made appear to almost be useless considering zerg can always produce corruptors faster than vikings and almost one fungal to a viking cloud is death. Basically if a Zerg is economically ahead and is not fearing an impending Terran push, I don't actually see a reason they shouldn't go for a ling/infestor/BL/corruptor combo. Polt is the only player I've seen for a bit do anything decent against it. Unless you're MMA and can dropship tanks unto infestors! Haha I forgot he did that. What game did he do that in again? It wasn't a MLG was it? Blizzard Cup vs DRG on Tal D'arim. There was also another game (not the Blizzard Cup) but I can't remember that one.
Yeah, in the center of Antiga I saw it once as well ^^
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On March 27 2012 22:16 TeMiL wrote:
didnt know GOMTV shows shorts korean learning advices :D
Reaper = SaSin ^^
and then they show information of the music used :D
they are improving lot of things? or this is old?
They've been doing it since last season.
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On March 27 2012 22:14 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:13 Huragius wrote:On March 27 2012 22:12 bittman wrote:On March 27 2012 22:09 Angel_ wrote:
HerO Curious Rematch. excited.
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and no, Curious hasnt been making an ultralisk cavern. so realistically if Gumiho had bothered making vikings earlier he might have just been fine. =\ Vikings made after Broodlords have been made appear to almost be useless considering zerg can always produce corruptors faster than vikings and almost one fungal to a viking cloud is death. Basically if a Zerg is economically ahead and is not fearing an impending Terran push, I don't actually see a reason they shouldn't go for a ling/infestor/BL/corruptor combo. Polt is the only player I've seen for a bit do anything decent against it. MKP has the best way how to deal with it  And that is? MKP meta-gamed DRG hard with some weird and unpredictable builds.
There's the Polt way to deal with it too.
Drop everyhere, move small army everywhere and someshow don't die. :d
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On March 27 2012 22:11 Azzur wrote:
Amazing that Curious can't play like this (safe and defensive) against Hero and instead goes a gimmicky primitive zerg all-out attack against protoss. I feel like Curious is a metagame abuser.
Anyways, terrans need to come up with a lategame strategy against the zerg deathball (corrupter/BL/infestor/ling).
The solution is obviously there already: don't let them get there.
Mass ghost used to be endgame more or less, no matter how you see it. It was a hard, exciting transition to pull off as a terran (providing you're playing at an equal level and a decent map and you're not MVP). Endgame is now this zerg composition. I think from a spectators point of view the ghost nerf has made the game worse in TvZ.
Don't get me wrong, TvZ can still be excellent, it's just that when you see a T simply trying to macro and play greedy, you already know he's gonna lose.
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On March 27 2012 22:14 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:14 bittman wrote:On March 27 2012 22:13 Azzur wrote:On March 27 2012 22:12 bittman wrote:On March 27 2012 22:09 Angel_ wrote:
HerO Curious Rematch. excited.
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and no, Curious hasnt been making an ultralisk cavern. so realistically if Gumiho had bothered making vikings earlier he might have just been fine. =\ Vikings made after Broodlords have been made appear to almost be useless considering zerg can always produce corruptors faster than vikings and almost one fungal to a viking cloud is death. Basically if a Zerg is economically ahead and is not fearing an impending Terran push, I don't actually see a reason they shouldn't go for a ling/infestor/BL/corruptor combo. Polt is the only player I've seen for a bit do anything decent against it. Unless you're MMA and can dropship tanks unto infestors! Haha I forgot he did that. What game did he do that in again? It wasn't a MLG was it? Blizzard Cup vs DRG on Tal D'arim. There was also another game (not the Blizzard Cup) but I can't remember that one.
Oh yeah, sadly didn't catch the blizz cup live (know I should pay for it...)
But I do recall a tank-on-infestor drop. Considering I largely watch GSL I feel like I might have mistaken it for a fail attempt in Code A by someone once upon a time. But I'm pretty sure I did see MMA or perhaps some other random terran do it on Tal'Darim about halfway through 2011. I just know it's been a long time since I remember seeing it. Will probably never figure this out haha.
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On March 27 2012 22:16 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:14 vndods wrote:On March 27 2012 22:13 Hider wrote:On March 27 2012 22:08 rothsbury wrote:On March 27 2012 22:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:On March 27 2012 22:01 rothsbury wrote:On March 27 2012 21:56 Fluffboll wrote:On March 27 2012 21:52 rothsbury wrote:On March 27 2012 21:50 Azzur wrote:
Terrans have no answer to this Zerg lategame composition
At least now anyways Eh, Gumiho was really unprepared for the broodlords in this match; he didn't start viking production until broods were already morphing. I think it is pretty balanced. Actually, if you produce enough vikings to take out the Brood Lords and Corruptors the tech switch to Ultra/Ling will kill you so Terran lategame is really bad versus zerg lategame at this moment in time. Terrans can still win vs zerg by not letting the zerg get to the lategame however. That's an economy issue then; broodlord/corruptor is really expensive, so if the terran has let the zerg get such an economic lead that the zerg can afford to lose all his corruptors and broods and then mass out of ultra/lings, then you were probably behind anyway. In a lot of broodlord corruptor pushes the zerg uses all of his money on those units, so if he loses them he can't really afford a big tech switch. I think that leads us to the point: Don't let zerg reach the lategame. I wouldn't call fast tech with no economy to back it up lategame. Lategame =/= letting zerg do whatever he wants. If you let the zerg sit on 5 bases without attacking for 20 mins, then yeah they gcan do that really expensive gas switch no problem. The idea is that even in the lategame you deny expansions, snipe expos, trade armies etc. so the zerg can't build up a giant bank while on 200/200. Edit: also drops are really good against zerg lategame. Couple of dropships can kill a lot of tech / drones etc.. Watch stephano plays. He has great multitasking. And simply deals with early attacks. There is no way (IMO) that you can do a lot of damage early game/midgame to a zerg who simply plays very well like stephano. What works on your ladder game isn't suppoed to work on top top zerg players. And its only gonna get worse in the future (zergs gonna get better and better), untill (if) the terran finds a way to beat the army. Man, I can't wait to see MKP vs Stephano style in IPL next week. MKP > DRG so I bet he can get past Stephano no problem. The problem is, it'll probably be some really micro intensive strategy that only he can do  But MKP isn't gonna do a lot of damage by counterattacking /dropping. Stephano is too good for that. He might of course to some kind cheesy unit composition that stpehano isn't prepared for. But agains that only works if the zerg isn't prepared for it/makes mistakes. Its not a long-term solid solution.
Dunno, MKP's control allows him to pull off seemingly impossible stuff.
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United States33705 Posts
curious' don't-give-a-fuck face contrasts pretty strongly with hero -_~
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On March 27 2012 22:16 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:16 TeMiL wrote:
didnt know GOMTV shows shorts korean learning advices :D
Reaper = SaSin ^^
and then they show information of the music used :D
they are improving lot of things? or this is old? They've been doing it since last season.
Promoting the music they use is a great way to be able to play music cheap and possibly (?) escape royalties!
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On March 27 2012 22:11 Pipeline wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:08 Bagration wrote:On March 27 2012 22:06 Ketch wrote:
Pfff... Gumiho to Code A Ro48? Semifinals last year... these players are dropping so fast... T_T Yeah, this new format is very unforgiving. Unforgiving? It's all bo3 matches, both in Code S and A! What was unforgiving was the bo1 round robin that Code S used to have ^_^
Back then it was very hard for players to fall out of Code S, you had to get last in the group and then you only fall to the Up and Downs. Then, it was the bottom 8 that had their Code S spot in jeopardy, now everyone but the top 8 fall to Code A.
Bo3 is nice though, I agree with that
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Has Hero vs Curious started already? I can't install gomplayer at work
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On March 27 2012 22:16 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:16 TeMiL wrote:
didnt know GOMTV shows shorts korean learning advices :D
Reaper = SaSin ^^
and then they show information of the music used :D
they are improving lot of things? or this is old? They've been doing it since last season.
thanks :D
is very useful and more interested for viewers
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:18 Waxangel wrote:
curious' don't-give-a-fuck face contrasts pretty strongly with hero -_~
His pocker face? =)
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37118 Posts
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 1?Yes (4) 40% If you have time (4) 40% No (2) 20% 10 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 2?If you have time (5) 50% Yes (4) 40% No (1) 10% 10 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3?Yes (4) 57% If you have time (2) 29% No (1) 14% 7 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match Game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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On March 27 2012 22:19 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 22:18 Waxangel wrote:
curious' don't-give-a-fuck face contrasts pretty strongly with hero -_~ His pocker face? =)
pocky face?
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On March 27 2012 22:19 Vega62a wrote:Has Hero vs Curious started already? I can't install gomplayer at work
Not yet, almost starting.
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EPT
