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Destructicon
4713 Posts
If a certain race can't win at any point in the game vs a certain composition or tactic then there is a flaw in the game. You should be able to go toe to toe with a player at any stage in the game. Back on topic. Good luck to Hero, now that Gumiho is out I hope Hero can make it trough. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
Haha Hero look pretty anxious and Curious poker face LOL. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:20 Destructicon wrote: People have some absurd expectations in saying things like "don't let the zerg get late game" and some such nonsense. Matter of fact is the game isn't 100% in your control, there is the other player to consider, and if you get equally matched and competent players it is not always possible to win in the early or mid game, and its then that you need something to fall back on. If a certain race can't win at any point in the game vs a certain composition or tactic then there is a flaw in the game. You should be able to go toe to toe with a player at any stage in the game. Back on topic. Good luck to Hero, now that Gumiho is out I hope Hero can make it trough. Well, give it some time and we'll see if any innovative ideas come along before declaring the game broken. Protoss is going through the same thing at the moment, but in the early-midgame transition where the zerg can just overpower with units. | ||
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
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Vega62a
946 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:20 FakeDeath wrote: Haha Hero look pretty anxious and Curious poker face LOL. I'm really concerned about Hero's nerves. The fact that he already beat curious once seems like it actually increases the pressure =/ I do think he's the better player, though. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:20 Destructicon wrote: People have some absurd expectations in saying things like "don't let the zerg get late game" and some such nonsense. Matter of fact is the game isn't 100% in your control, there is the other player to consider, and if you get equally matched and competent players it is not always possible to win in the early or mid game, and its then that you need something to fall back on. If a certain race can't win at any point in the game vs a certain composition or tactic then there is a flaw in the game. You should be able to go toe to toe with a player at any stage in the game. Back on topic. Good luck to Hero, now that Gumiho is out I hope Hero can make it trough. Well, TvZ can be pretty abusive in the early game with the 2 rax shit.ZvT can be pretty abusive with (BLs/Infestor) in late game. Each race got its strong point at a certain point of the game i think. | ||
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RDaneelOlivaw
Vatican City State733 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:18 Derez wrote: I think from a spectators point of view the ghost nerf has made the game worse in TvZ. . Call me crazy, but from my point of view watching a T insta-gib Z T3 was rather unexciting | ||
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
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Dzerzhinsky
Scotland327 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:14 vndods wrote: Man, I can't wait to see MKP vs Stephano style in IPL next week. MKP > DRG so I bet he can get past Stephano no problem. The problem is, it'll probably be some really micro intensive strategy that only he can do  Stephano will be coming up against MMA and Jjakjji in Iron Squid soon too, so maybe there will be something to be learned there (and in the case of Jjakjji maybe something that is at least somewhat replicable by us non-Code S noobs). I was eagerly watching MLG to see some new TvZ lategame be developed, but as it happened the Terran either got a huge lead then killed them in the very early late game, or the Terran died. So unfortunately I expect MMA and Jjakjji will do likewise. | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:16 rothsbury wrote: Well yeah, but Stephano is hardly invincible. Also, what you're describing can be explained by Stephano being more skilled than the terrans he faces. (But again, he's not invincible; he is beaten by good terrans like Polt a lot of the time.) You can't just point to one good player and say "oh zerg can't be dealt with"; maybe you need a terran stephano? But what is the terran supposed to do? The problem is right now that when the zerg gets to a certain skill level, he learns how to deal with the immoblity issues of broodlord/infestor. And then he will be able to absolutely crush every single terran players in a straight up battle. So the terran needs to find a way to be somewhat efficient against broodlord/infestor. Maybe they will find a way. But currently no terran has a long-term solution for this. And this isn't about skill level. The terran can have 400+ APM, (like MKP micro + fantastic knowledge of the game), but he still wont be able to beat a zerg who doesn't make mistakes. So the thing is: Terran needs to find a way to win late game, and the long term solution isn't gonna be counterattacking. The long-term solution has to be a unit composition that can at least trade somewhat even in a battle (of course given good micro) with broodlord/infestor. | ||
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Pipeline
Sweden1673 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:19 Bagration wrote: Back then it was very hard for players to fall out of Code S, you had to get last in the group and then you only fall to the Up and Downs. Then, it was the bottom 8 that had their Code S spot in jeopardy, now everyone but the top 8 fall to Code A. Bo3 is nice though, I agree with that Very true, but since Code A and S are so close skill wise now, I'd say you need to count in code A with the code S system. The new system only drops you from the competition if you finish last in your code S group and get eliminated in Code A ro48! Even if you only win one match and finish 3d in your code S group you are guaranteed televised matches in the next season (at least) via your place in Code A ro32. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:22 Dzerzhinsky wrote: Stephano will be coming up against MMA and Jjakjji in Iron Squid soon too, so maybe there will be something to be learned there (and in the case of Jjakjji maybe something that is at least somewhat replicable by us non-Code S noobs). I was eagerly watching MLG to see some new TvZ lategame be developed, but as it happened the Terran either got a huge lead then killed them in the very early late game, or the Terran died. So unfortunately I expect MMA and Jjakjji will do likewise. Jjakji style is as hard if not harder to replicate Imo. :/ | ||
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
I'm more arguing the point concept wise. Just preventing your enemy from reaching a certain stage of the game is wrong, you need to also fight him when he reaches that stage. Back on topic, I think Hero might be able to abuse the 3rd and then switch quickly to the main seeing as the distance from 3rd to main by air is so short. Hopefully he can make the most of it. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:21 Plexa wrote: Well, give it some time and we'll see if any innovative ideas come along before declaring the game broken. Protoss is going through the same thing at the moment, but in the early-midgame transition where the zerg can just overpower with units. I agree that its possible that terran can come up with innovatives idea. But how long time are we going to wait? Its currently been a few months (since snipe nerf) and it honestly just looks worse and worse for each month (as zergs get bettter at dealing with the immolility issue). What is so bad about buffing a terran unit in some way. If it turns out be absolute imbalanced, then the unit can always be nerfed again (thats the worst case scenario). EDIT: I myself like the idea of making ravens a bit more viable against HT/Infestors (like fungal/feedback shouldn't hard counter it that much). | ||
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Pipeline
Sweden1673 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:24 Noocta wrote: Jjakji style is as hard if not harder to replicate Imo. :/ It is hard to know how big impact those games have since they are broadcast replays and as far as I know, we dont know when they were actually played? | ||
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pookums
151 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:20 Destructicon wrote: If a certain race can't win at any point in the game vs a certain composition or tactic then there is a flaw in the game. You should be able to go toe to toe with a player at any stage in the game. But that's just stupid. You're assuming everyone plays equally throughout a game. If Player A gets really far ahead of Player B in early or mid game then there should be no way for Player B to beat Player A in the late game excepting massive blunders by Player B or ridiculous 5000 APM control and decision making from Player A. If zerg plays well enough to bank a shit ton of money and get all their tech up in the super late game while terran doesn't then zerg deserves to win. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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