EPT[GSL] 2012 Season 2 Code S Ro32 Group D - Page 93
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Tsubbi
Germany7997 Posts
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babysimba
10466 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:20 Destructicon wrote: People have some absurd expectations in saying things like "don't let the zerg get late game" and some such nonsense. Matter of fact is the game isn't 100% in your control, there is the other player to consider, and if you get equally matched and competent players it is not always possible to win in the early or mid game, and its then that you need something to fall back on. If a certain race can't win at any point in the game vs a certain composition or tactic then there is a flaw in the game. You should be able to go toe to toe with a player at any stage in the game. Back on topic. Good luck to Hero, now that Gumiho is out I hope Hero can make it trough. Well, i'm pretty sure they are deathballs in bw too. I think the root cause is that sc2 economy grows too fast along with its unit production. It's very difficult to hit the weak timings reliably. And because of how insane the dps of clumped up units are, the other player can't do much to salvage the situation with their unit control if they really got hit during their vulnerable period. Fix unit collisions and slow down economy, we are good to go for HoTS even with "lame" units like colossi and broodlords. | ||
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Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
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absinthfee
Germany718 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:23 Hider wrote: Maybe they will find a way. But currently no terran has a long-term solution for this. And this isn't about skill level. The terran can have 400+ APM, (like MKP micro + fantastic knowledge of the game), but he still wont be able to beat a zerg who doesn't make mistakes. So the thing is: Terran needs to find a way to win late game, and the long term solution isn't gonna be counterattacking. The long-term solution has to be a unit composition that can at least trade somewhat even in a battle (of course given good micro) with broodlord/infestor. Why cant it be counter attacking? Small forces and drops is the way to go. In the end if he hasnt got the economy to back up a switch you can easily kill his army with vikings marines. Zerg has been just counterattacking for months now in ZvP with mutas. Seriosly if the zerg plays flawless then doesnt he deserve to win? | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37118 Posts
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Vega62a
946 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:23 Hider wrote: But what is the terran supposed to do? The problem is right now that when the zerg gets to a certain skill level, he learns how to deal with the immoblity issues of broodlord/infestor. And then he will be able to absolutely crush every single terran players in a straight up battle. So the terran needs to find a way to be somewhat efficient against broodlord/infestor. Maybe they will find a way. But currently no terran has a long-term solution for this. And this isn't about skill level. The terran can have 400+ APM, (like MKP micro + fantastic knowledge of the game), but he still wont be able to beat a zerg who doesn't make mistakes. So the thing is: Terran needs to find a way to win late game, and the long term solution isn't gonna be counterattacking. The long-term solution has to be a unit composition that can at least trade somewhat even in a battle (of course given good micro) with broodlord/infestor. This feels like kind of an oversimplification. Saying a zerg "Just learns how to deal with drops" discounts the Terran's role in making drops work. (Day9 used to talk about that in his earlier dailies, although it was never a focus.) Why does Terran's solution need to be a unit composition that can trade evenly with Zerg's? Why can't it be a whole game plan that puts the terran in a favorable position lategame? Why can't it be counterattack-based? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:28 babysimba wrote: Well, i'm pretty sure they are deathballs in bw too. I think the root cause is that sc2 economy grows too fast along with its unit production. It's very difficult to hit the weak timings reliably. And because of how insane the dps of clumped up units are, the other player can't do much to salvage the situation with their unit control if they really got hit during their vulnerable period. Fix unit collisions and slow down economy, we are good to go for HoTS even with "lame" units like colossi and broodlords. Lame unit like broodlord? The broodlord is a great unit. Hard to control properly and veyr strong in a straight up battle. Terran just needs a unit that can counter it a bit more efficient. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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Adr4melecH
Thailand667 Posts
hero going for that phoenix upgrade again | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
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fidelity
Sweden410 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:26 pookums wrote: But that's just stupid. You're assuming everyone plays equally throughout a game. If Player A gets really far ahead of Player B in early or mid game then there should be no way for Player B to beat Player A in the late game excepting massive blunders by Player B or ridiculous 5000 APM control and decision making from Player A. If zerg plays well enough to bank a shit ton of money and get all their tech up in the super late game while terran doesn't then zerg deserves to win. What you just described is one player out playing another. And while that happens fairly often too, its not uncommon for both players to be so good and evenly matched to both be able to reach the late game. So your argument is moot, if a player out plays another one yes he deserves to win. But if both are evenly matched then one shouldn't win out because of superior and un-counterable composition. Damn, I'm worried for HerO, he looked solid in the first series, but he looks so shaky now. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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MosART
United States1899 Posts
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Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:31 Angel_ wrote: what were those colossi doing. i was wondering the same thing, its like Hero just donated them to him. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
Now, please get hive... | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7997 Posts
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