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Please have some respect for the players, teams, and tournament.
Criticism is fine, criticism without anything to back it up isn't so cool.
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On March 25 2012 16:38 ShAdZ_ZX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 15:47 supsun wrote:On March 25 2012 14:24 Dissonance23 wrote:On March 25 2012 14:01 goswser wrote:On March 25 2012 13:56 mindspike wrote:On March 25 2012 13:18 RaiKageRyu wrote:
Man, I still can't believe that Heart came out of nowhere to take number 1 in his group. He did A LOT of 1-1-1's from what I saw. That doesn't take away from the accomplishment for an mlg debut. If someone 6pooled every game and did the same thing then would it? Doing builds that take a significantly small amount of skill to execute and a much larger amount to hold off isn't impressive at all, imo. Someone is butt hurt a cheesy Protoss just got cheesed. Get over yourself. Heart is a great player with solid micro, macro and decision making. Your ignorance is astounding. Dissonance isn't arguing that Heart getting to where he is suddenly isn't valid, because it is; 1-1-1 is a perfectly legitimate build regardless of how cheesy it is. But that doesn't automatically mean that people should be impressed by his wins.
He qualified for the championship pools and went 5 - 0 in his group, beating Ret and Violet. Did he 1-1-1 them too? Both of those players are better than the Protoss he beat with 1-1-1, and since most Terran's express frustration about the TvP matchup he really shouldn't be looked down on for doing the strategy that gives him the best chance to win.
Hell, Huk has cheesed every game he's ever played basically.
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On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo.
From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games.
Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series.
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sorry if it has already been asked, but was the Socke - Puma series shown on one of the four streams?
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On March 25 2012 19:47 Sr18 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo. From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games. Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series.
He did show decent macro play as well, such as his game vs socke and his games vs ret. some just judge players based on the fact he won against huk with a 1/1/1 -_-
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Heh, the hate on Heart is because he beat Huk with 2 1-1-1s. They fail to mention that Huk would have held in game 1 if he didn't lose so many probes to banshees and didn't over extend his immortal. And game 3 was a failed 4 gate. Basically with 1-1-1 nowadays, it is fairly easy to hold if the P doesn't make any huge mistakes.
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How can you hate on Heart? First he makes it through open than goes 5-0 in pool play. He has played and won more games than anyone so far. Back off and that him take a shot at the final boss DRG.
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The Korean dominance is just boring at this point. Making my interest in the scene dwindle rapidly.
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Austria24422 Posts
On March 25 2012 19:53 ragnorr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 19:47 Sr18 wrote:On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo. From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games. Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series. He did show decent macro play as well, such as his game vs socke and his games vs ret. some just judge players based on the fact he won against huk with a 1/1/1 -_-
Two 1/1/1s. His TvP consists of two builds: the 1/1/1 and this reactored 2 rax thing.
If he plays standard vs Socke that's... cool? But he's beating people who are better than him just by cheesing. I myself would rather watch a HuK vs DRG semifinals because the games would probably be better. Heart's only chance to beat DRG is to cheese him to death while HuK would put up a better fight. So one semifinal series will probably be unattractive already just because Heart knows how to cheese... great.
And then you have Parting vs MKP which could be a GSL final series. That's the kind of game I wanna see, not some cheese / one sided slaughter.
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On March 25 2012 20:00 vthree wrote:
Heh, the hate on Heart is because he beat Huk with 2 1-1-1s. They fail to mention that Huk would have held in game 1 if he didn't lose so many probes to banshees and didn't over extend his immortal. And game 3 was a failed 4 gate. Basically with 1-1-1 nowadays, it is fairly easy to hold if the P doesn't make any huge mistakes.
Yup, you win if you don't make mistakes. Obviously. Its just not that easy to defend well against 1/1/1, I'd guess a lot of protoss in here know the feeling of getting 1/1/1d from the time a few months ago. People don't like 1/1/1s and Heart did nothing to earn fans like e.g. Crazymoving did yesterday 
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Lol, Huk vs Z ? That is more predictable than Heart vs P... Huk only does 6-7 gate vs Z
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I just noticed this:
you can go to http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/live , choose starcraft 2 main stream and watch the whole last day. Pretty cool feature if you live in EU timezone.
The scrollbar works really fast and you can scroll to say... 7:54:00 to watch Idra vs Polt. Well played MLG!
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On March 25 2012 20:09 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 19:53 ragnorr wrote:On March 25 2012 19:47 Sr18 wrote:On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo. From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games. Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series. He did show decent macro play as well, such as his game vs socke and his games vs ret. some just judge players based on the fact he won against huk with a 1/1/1 -_- Two 1/1/1s. His TvP consists of two builds: the 1/1/1 and this reactored 2 rax thing. If he plays standard vs Socke that's... cool? But he's beating people who are better than him just by cheesing. I myself would rather watch a HuK vs DRG semifinals because the games would probably be better. Heart's only chance to beat DRG is to cheese him to death while HuK would put up a better fight. So one semifinal series will probably be unattractive already just because Heart knows how to cheese... great. And then you have Parting vs MKP which could be a GSL final series. That's the kind of game I wanna see, not some cheese / one sided slaughter.
So cheesing invalidates winning, or is cheese just so easy that everyone can win against a professional Protoss using that build? And how can you draw conclusions, how is TvZ is from his TvP? And why is cheese boring to watch?
The series between Huk and DRG at Winter arena were not even close. DRG just walked over Huk and it was not even close in my opinion.
Just relax and enjoy the show, instead of trying to make Heart the worst player there ever was, who is destroying your enjoyment of the game.
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On March 25 2012 20:09 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 19:53 ragnorr wrote:On March 25 2012 19:47 Sr18 wrote:On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo. From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games. Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series. He did show decent macro play as well, such as his game vs socke and his games vs ret. some just judge players based on the fact he won against huk with a 1/1/1 -_- Two 1/1/1s. His TvP consists of two builds: the 1/1/1 and this reactored 2 rax thing. If he plays standard vs Socke that's... cool? But he's beating people who are better than him just by cheesing. I myself would rather watch a HuK vs DRG semifinals because the games would probably be better. Heart's only chance to beat DRG is to cheese him to death while HuK would put up a better fight. So one semifinal series will probably be unattractive already just because Heart knows how to cheese... great. And then you have Parting vs MKP which could be a GSL final series. That's the kind of game I wanna see, not some cheese / one sided slaughter. [/b]
Heart make it out of the open bracket and 5-0 his group.That itself is a remarkable feat for a MLG debut.
Pro players are not paid to entertain but to win. Huk fail to hold 2 1/1/1 and you call him the better player?
Huk was prepared for both of the 1/1/1 yet he still failed so hard. People is hating on Heart when he win with cheese and huk tried to proxy 4 gated him and failed hard and nobody hates on him.
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Does anyone else have a problem with day9 constantly repeating 'I am day9" before and after every map ? I am probably being unreasonable but I tend to avoid the stream he is casting because of that (and his overall narcissism),I don't know why it just irritates me.
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On March 25 2012 19:53 ragnorr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 19:47 Sr18 wrote:On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo. From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games. Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series. He did show decent macro play as well, such as his game vs socke and his games vs ret. some just judge players based on the fact he won against huk with a 1/1/1 -_-
I didn't see his games vs Socke and Ret, but I can't say that he has ever impressed me in a macro game before.
Then again, I'm biased against him because he knocked GLSnute out of some tournament with two super cheesy bunker-rushes, in a series where he got dismantled in the only macro game.
I see his results here, and on their own they are very impressive. But I'm holding the "great player-parade" locked in my basement untill I actually see him doing well without winning on gambles.
Then again, most good players are deemed cheesy players when they first break through.
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On March 25 2012 19:38 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 18:46 thuracine wrote:On March 25 2012 18:33 Parnass wrote:I'm still so disappointed in scoots that he had to go and lash out at ostojiy who rightfully insisted that 15 minutes after schedule at least a one game advantage should be given. 15 minutes should actually be a complete walkover according to the rules and he didn't take that but only a slight advantage. Furthermore, he voiced suspicions, because wannabecool ( ostojiys teammate) was the one who found puma and not one of the EG guys. Why would scoots go into tirades on reddit and twitter over this stuff? Other than that, a great tournament with amazing games. I loved watching sheth, DRG and crazymoving, always nice play Scoots didn't lash out at ostojiy Yea it was Garfield, someone none of us really like. His post on reddit got downvoted to oblivion and they all called him a douchebag. Even his post about Orb had douchebag written all over it. He talked about his PHDs for 2 paragraphs, then said if he ever hears the N word he immediately "demands" the person to never use it again.
Well I dont think it was a PHD, but a masters in extreme political correctness and other useless knowledge (pretty sure that the specific title. might have been something like social justice though, not totally sure).
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On March 25 2012 19:44 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 16:38 ShAdZ_ZX wrote:On March 25 2012 15:47 supsun wrote:On March 25 2012 14:24 Dissonance23 wrote:On March 25 2012 14:01 goswser wrote:On March 25 2012 13:56 mindspike wrote:On March 25 2012 13:18 RaiKageRyu wrote:
Man, I still can't believe that Heart came out of nowhere to take number 1 in his group. He did A LOT of 1-1-1's from what I saw. That doesn't take away from the accomplishment for an mlg debut. If someone 6pooled every game and did the same thing then would it? Doing builds that take a significantly small amount of skill to execute and a much larger amount to hold off isn't impressive at all, imo. Someone is butt hurt a cheesy Protoss just got cheesed. Get over yourself. Heart is a great player with solid micro, macro and decision making. Your ignorance is astounding. Dissonance isn't arguing that Heart getting to where he is suddenly isn't valid, because it is; 1-1-1 is a perfectly legitimate build regardless of how cheesy it is. But that doesn't automatically mean that people should be impressed by his wins. He qualified for the championship pools and went 5 - 0 in his group, beating Ret and Violet. Did he 1-1-1 them too? Both of those players are better than the Protoss he beat with 1-1-1, and since most Terran's express frustration about the TvP matchup he really shouldn't be looked down on for doing the strategy that gives him the best chance to win. Hell, Huk has cheesed every game he's ever played basically.
Yeah, doing a timing attack on the third in PvZ is cheesing alright.
And HuK is a better player than Ret and Violet, sorry that you don't realize it.
On topic I agree with you, Heart certainly didn't 1-1-1 the Zergs, and going through Open and pool play without dropping a Bo3 he deserves to be where he is now.
I feel like some people are just blindly following IdrA's words (the usual "that guy is awful").
Edit: I don't think HuK would have had much chance against DRG anyway, so it's not a big deal :D
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On March 25 2012 20:09 thuracine wrote:
How can you hate on Heart? First he makes it through open than goes 5-0 in pool play. He has played and won more games than anyone so far. Back off and that him take a shot at the final boss DRG.
Yeah seriously. Anyone that go through the open bracket into pool play won't be interested in playing long macro games. That would be self-punishing basically.
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On March 25 2012 20:41 TXN wrote:
Does anyone else have a problem with day9 constantly repeating 'I am day9" before and after every map ? I am probably being unreasonable but I tend to avoid the stream he is casting because of that (and his overall narcissism),I don't know why it just irritates me.
I think that's just a case of you looking for reasons to hate on somebody you already don't like.
Casters presenting themselves and the players is a formality.
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On March 25 2012 20:09 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 19:53 ragnorr wrote:On March 25 2012 19:47 Sr18 wrote:On March 25 2012 19:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:
This seems to be a pretty cheesy tournament... Heart basically lives because he knows the 1/1/1. Ostojiy apparently all ins 2/3 of his games which provokes countercheese (by Demuslim for example), YaTa cheesed his way through people like Destiny, Crazymoving has shown his share of all ins, Parting vs Rain was two all ins just like a whole lot of other series and so on... I dunno, haven't been the prettiest games so far. Best series was Oz vs aLive imo. From the side of the players coming from the open bracket it makes sense to opt for plenty of 1- or 2-base all-ins. They have to win so many games to even reach the pools/championship bracket, that any player would get severely fatiqued if they would only play for longer games. Taken into account the amount of games and series that Heart had to win to even reach pool-play, his 5-0 in the pools is very impressive to me, regardless of how he won those series. He did show decent macro play as well, such as his game vs socke and his games vs ret. some just judge players based on the fact he won against huk with a 1/1/1 -_- Two 1/1/1s. His TvP consists of two builds: the 1/1/1 and this reactored 2 rax thing. If he plays standard vs Socke that's... cool? But he's beating people who are better than him just by cheesing. I myself would rather watch a HuK vs DRG semifinals because the games would probably be better. Heart's only chance to beat DRG is to cheese him to death while HuK would put up a better fight. So one semifinal series will probably be unattractive already just because Heart knows how to cheese... great. And then you have Parting vs MKP which could be a GSL final series. That's the kind of game I wanna see, not some cheese / one sided slaughter.
Seriously how the fuck can you hate Heart for 1/1/1 and say that Huk is a better player when hes well known for being a basical all-inner.... ImO you re just a bisaed Huk fan
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EPT
