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On March 04 2012 00:35 ravenKRaz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:33 gosu86 wrote:On March 04 2012 00:16 RPR_Tempest wrote:On March 04 2012 00:13 gosu86 wrote:
front page really teamliquid? sigh such a spoiler Apparently their new policies haven't been made clear... People like you astonish me, truly. Yeah ok there mr herp derp Everyone in the whole world should know their policies every time they change right? you sound like a condescending douche well lesson learned regardless will not be visiting tl since i know it will be on front page there's a check box at the bottom that can hide the spoilers if you really hate them edit: ninjad edit 2: i'm so happy that drg won his first gsl, he really deserved it.
Thanks for the tip. I don't really mind spoilers, just went to tl to check something and didn't suspect that it would be front page. I would have nothing against the spoilers but at least put it on the second day or gsl winner etc.. than you have to click on it.
Regardless I'm happy drg won it. Drg and Genius are both great players. Either one of them winning would have been a good gsl
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Still no VOD's up at Gom  .
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nooooooooooooo
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so so so sad that the decided match had to be on crossfire. zzz.
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On March 04 2012 01:08 theBALLS wrote:
so so so sad that the deciding match had to be on crossfire. zzz.
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United States97277 Posts
I fell asleep!!!!! NO!!!!!
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GJ Mr. Dong, knew you could do it 
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On March 04 2012 01:10 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I fell asleep!!!!! NO!!!!!
ouch @_@
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Where are the VODS!? 
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On March 03 2012 19:49 klops wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:46 rift wrote:On March 03 2012 19:45 TheBrofessor wrote:On March 03 2012 19:37 rift wrote:
so i guess PvZ is normally better than this It's not a great matchup, but yea the Protoss did not play well that series what are the great matchups? tvz WAS an amazing matchup pre-ghost nerf. without a doubt it was the best MU in wings. post nerf however lategame biomech is unpolished now and imo mech will be further explored. mech tvt is amazing.
Hahaha, and how many high level TvZ's have you been able to see since the nerf exactly?
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United States97277 Posts
On March 04 2012 01:15 SeaSwift wrote:ouch @_@
I guess it'll be ok. I have a ticket and I don't mind being spoiled. I'll still watch it to see how it all went down
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Were there any epic ceremonies ?
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wow.. been waiting for vods, accidently clicked on TL , see DRG kissing a trophy .. (yes i know about the spoiler thing)
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HUGE PRODUCTION from gom. So awesome
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how funny the interviews before the match...LOL
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On March 04 2012 01:35 Depetrify wrote:
Were there any epic ceremonies ?
Yes. They were pretty damn good.
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On March 04 2012 00:38 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:25 mint_julep wrote:On March 03 2012 23:57 SeaSwift wrote:I'm not going to reply to all of your post because most of it is just waffle, so I'll cut to a part that I have an issue with: On March 03 2012 23:37 mint_julep wrote:
Listen to Artosis' analysis of that strat after the game if you want an expert opinion on why this was a smart strat was demolished by a smarter one.
Brief outline from another post on this same page: "Literally the only thing that could break him right then was overlord drops. FFs and his cannons/ramps would have wrecked any type of roach/ling/hydra attempted pressure or all-in. Genius collects an "easy" win if DRG didn't counter perfectly and at an ideal time. With the denied scouting there was no way for DRG to have a Spire, upgrades, and 20 corrupters ready to have a chance vs ~8 carriers through triple stargate. Kudos to Genius on the build and DRG for the well executed counter. Very impressive game imo." That's utter bollocks. Artosis completely invented that "fact" to hype the finals more, and make the players seem better. In actual fact, even when it is 8 Carriers vs equivalent cost of Corruptors, Corruptors still win. There is no barrier after which mass Carriers becomes unbeatable. Try it on a unit tester: assume that Genius had +1 attack and so did DRG, as that was the most plausible outcome. Use the Corruption ability, micro back Carriers etc. Once again, Corruptors still win. The reason that units become considered more viable in SC2 or BW is because they fulfil a role which people did not foresee requiring to be fulfilled. I ask you this now: what possible role could the Carrier fill which other units in the Protoss arsenal cannot perform with equal or greater efficiency? That is the reason why Blizzard are strongly considering removing the Carrier for HotS. Because even if you can reach Carriers, they don't perform a role that another Protoss unit doesn't already . No problem on "reply[ing] to all of [my] post". It wasn't directed toward you. Anyway what did Artosis state, contrary to anything in your argument, as "fact"? That once Genius had a certain number of Carriers, DRG wouldn't be able to win, and that Genius was smart to go for that deathball of Carriers, and DRG was smarter to hit before that deathball. All it came down to was DRG seeing Carriers, having already planned to drop, dropping, nearly killing him because Carriers weren't enough to defend, then just massing Corruptors and winning. Not really particularly smart from either player. Ballsy, from Genius, but not smart. Carriers just aren't viable unless at the top level unless you massively outplay your opponent, in which case why go for Carriers in the first place when pretty much any other Protoss unit will let you do that too? By the way, apologies for the wording of my reply to you. Scanning over it again, it looked a bit harsh. The mentality of "we'll just wait and see, maybe Carriers will magically become good in the future" just irks me.
If I remember correctly Artosis and Tasteless theory-crafted that there may be, or even likely exists, a critical mass at which carriers become very, very hard to stop if unprepared for. I wish the VODs were up as I don't have the exact verbiage off the top of my head.
I'm absolutely certain that there was no statement that if Genius had x number of carriers "DRG wouldn't be able to win" (an absurdly wide statement), just that if the hypothetical "critical mass" was attained, before being scouted and responded to appropriately, they would be very powerful. Even if the "ability to win" was mentioned in any way, there was never a statement of this as "fact". Theory-crafting and stating that something is trufax are very different things, which central here.
Artosis did say that he thought the build was smart for the reasons I described earlier, that Genius' build actively denied scouting while attempting to mask it as another sort of turtling build.
As I previously stated, DRG did not begin to mass corruptors until Genius was forced to show his carriers because of the drop, and that those corruptors are what shut down any continued carrier play. Regardless of whether DRG intended to discover Genius' tech route via the drop or not, the only question for the viability of the build (in this situation) is whether Genius would have been able to do significant enough damage to pay for his investment in carriers before they could be countered, or simply be able to destroy DRG's tech before any counter were possible at all.
...
My issue here is not that we should blindly "wait and see [if] maybe Carriers will magically become good in the future", it's the blind assertion that they never will be. The whole point of my posts is that people have discovered and utilized units and strategies in the past that were never considered viable prior, and yet current theory-crafters continue to fall into the same trap, despite history.
To call me out on hoping for something to "magically" happen in the future inverts the entire discussion. It implies that I'm predicting the future. On the contrary I'm calling people out for stating, matter of factly, that something will never be viable in the future, despite numerous examples of theory-crafters being wrong in similar situations in the past (in both BW and WoL), only to be silenced when a unit finds a key role in a new type of strategy. That's predicting the future.
I'm staying open minded because we didn't get to see Genius's execution should he not have been roach/hydra dropped. You're saying that "Carriers just aren't viable unless at the top level unless you massively outplay your opponent" as a matter of fact. That's the difference here.
If "magical wait and see" mentality is the object of your "irk", then attacks on my post are misdirected.
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EPT
