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On February 08 2012 19:47 Noktix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:45 mvtaylor wrote:On February 08 2012 19:42 Noktix wrote:On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. It isn't your job to bitch about imbalance, It is your job to show amazing games and work out ways to beat it. Instead of sitting on this forum and explaining why it's impossible, how about you practice your ass off and become an innovator. I lose respect for every single pro i see do this... Sorry, you lose respect for players who are in GSL Code A and watch GSL matches while disagreeing with you? I lose respect for professionals who can't act professional. There are so many unexplored options in the Terran race. I guarantee in a month TvP will be completely different. Coming to these forums and whining does nothing. I don't care if you comment on the games, but trying to prove how imbalanced toss is to randoms on team liquid does nothing but make you look bad.
I am pretty sure pro players should be barred from expressing their own thoughts. Its unprofessional.
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On February 08 2012 19:49 Fragile51 wrote:
lol, two protoss players beat two terran players and suddently nobody is actually talking about the games anymore...sigh >_>
On another note, MC pulling an Inca!
Well it hasn't really happened since MC won his last GSL almost a year ago so I can see why people are amazed  .
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On February 08 2012 19:49 sCFade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:47 Corrosive wrote:
Exactly. I remember MVP saying 1-1-1 should be a DQ because its so strong (it was partly joking partly serious). People figured it out and now its not so hard to stop.
Except they didn't, really. The maps just got changed to make 1/1/1 weaker.
Yes they did. 111 really sucks on most maps.
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United Kingdom38256 Posts
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Dark shrine into loss most likely  I hate DT builds haha
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ugh Hate blind dt builds so gross!!!
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:49 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:47 Drazerk wrote:Game Two on Entombed ValleyIn the bottom left is  Parting While in the top right is MC Both players opening with a gate and a gas
5:00Twilight council and two more gates for MC as both players finish warp tech Nexus and more gates for parting Dark shrine for MC Robo for Parting
6:30
Robo finishes as the proxy pylon goes up
MC takes the watch tower in the middle of the map as his dark shrine finishes
Immortal first for Parting
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On February 08 2012 19:46 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:43 roymarthyup wrote:On February 08 2012 19:33 Jehct wrote:On February 08 2012 19:31 roymarthyup wrote:On February 08 2012 19:23 cyclone25 wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 Heavenly wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 KiNGxXx wrote:
I don't get this. 3rd gets scouted, building bunkers and still the fight is not even close! A nexus is 400 minerals...on the other hand Jjaki went for double ebay, +1, and teched up to medivacs while only having one. And you suggest he shouldn't get upgrades or medivacs? a third nexus costs 400 minerals. parting went for MASSSS gateway units, no forge, no tech, no upgrades. just zealot/stalker/sentry. basically a 2base all-in with zero tech but spending 400minerals on a third nexus jakji got 2bases then made factory (150/100) starport (150/100) 2 engi bay (250) +1/+1 (200/200) and he made 1 medivac (100/100) which was out by then essentially, by the time partings attack hit, jakji had spent 750/400 on a single medivac. while parting spent 400 on a third nexus (which allowed him to spread out his probes for more efficient mining) with like 8gates for a massive attach with zero tech id say to counter this crap, there are probably several options from the terran. i say wait a bit and sooner or later terrans will figure out the proper way to play against these gateway pressure possibilities The entire concept is stupid abusive and based around the power of warp gates/sentries though. It feels like the mechanic really needs to be re-looked at; it creates so many stupid situations where any defender's advantage is more than negated (see forcefields on ramps in PvZ). i'd suggest we wait until this GSL finals are over before we claim imbalance. im pretty sure a top terran will figure out an answer to these new toss tricks soon honestly, if instead of going for medivacs/upgrades after the factory you go for a thor, it could counter the FF nonsense pretty well and your medivacs/upgrades would be maybe 2minutes later but who cares a thor costs 150/100 for the armory then after that your 1factory+techlab (200/125) can produce 1thor every 60 seconds. 1thor kills 3 zealots or stalkers easily in normal combat. 1 gateway makes about 1.5 zealots a minute. it takes 2 gateways (300 minerals) to make 3zealots a minute, while it costs 350/225 to make the production required to produce 1thor a minute which easily kills 3zealots. So the terran spends a bit more money, but in exchance for that he COMPLETELY ELIMINATED FORCEFIELDS imagine that, whats more important +1/+1 and stim, or completely removing forcefields? id say completely removing forcefields is much stronger so parting went for basically a 8gate off two bases what if jakji went for a 5rax of two bases with thors? 3 reactors on raxes, 2 techlabs on raxes, 1 techlab on factory. 300/200 a minute to make thors 720 minerals/minute to make rines from 3 reactor raxes 200/50 a minute to make marauders from 2 techlab raxes total cost, 1220 minerals / minute to produce off all those buildings plus 400 minerals/minute on required depots. 2 fully saturated mineral line + 2mules gives about 1900 minerals per minute income, meaning terran can reach the 1620 income he needs before he reaches saturation, enough time/money to buy 1turret in time for DT's or expand to counter a third No. Just no. Stop. Your post about thors is going to make people's brains hurt.
or the top terrans can just keep complaining. do you really think theres no counter?
im not saying im right that thors are the counter. im just brainstorming because if forcefields are the problem, why not get the counter to forcefields (thors) which also extremely decimate gateway units like candy? 1thor kills 4stalkers easily. honestly it doesnt matter im just brainstorming
Do you really honestly think theres no counter?
listen, i know what the counter is. wanna hear it? wanna know the magical counter? i will tell it to you
this is the counter. it is whatever MMA or MVP or whatever super skilled terran does in the future to make these mass gateway fast 2base pushes look like a joke and no longer viable. im sure one exists, i dont know what it is, but im pretty damn sure we will see it soon. heck we will probably see it before the finals are over
if we dont see it in 5more months, fine you are right. but i doubt that will happen. i dont think things have been completely figured out yet. i guess its just my opinion tho so whatever
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Thank god at least one pro has the balls to admit protoss has big advantage vs terran atm. You have to be either stupid or blind to think otherwise.
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Probes killing archons...what has the world come to.
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PROBE RESISTING MC'S ARMY
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Holy crap. This is working.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:50 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:49 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 19:47 Drazerk wrote:Game Two on Entombed ValleyIn the bottom left is Parting While in the top right is MC Both players opening with a gate and a gas
5:00Twilight council and two more gates for MC as both players finish warp tech Nexus and more gates for parting Dark shrine for MC Robo for Parting
6:30Robo finishes as the proxy pylon goes up MC takes the watch tower in the middle of the map as his dark shrine finishes Immortal first for Parting
7:40
Observer now on the way but the DTs are killing units in the main and natural
DTs turn into an archon when they go low on hp
Surrounding an archon with probes so many going down
Parting holding for now
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On February 08 2012 19:50 Typhon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:47 Inflicted_ wrote:On February 08 2012 19:46 Typhon wrote:On February 08 2012 19:45 mvtaylor wrote:On February 08 2012 19:42 Noktix wrote:On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. It isn't your job to bitch about imbalance, It is your job to show amazing games and work out ways to beat it. Instead of sitting on this forum and explaining why it's impossible, how about you practice your ass off and become an innovator. I lose respect for every single pro i see do this... Sorry, you lose respect for players who are in GSL Code A and watch GSL matches while disagreeing with you? Nah, he loses respect for players like Nestea who spend their time complaining about race balance rather than... wait... NesTea does complain (as does a few other pros), but the difference is that they don't ask for it to be nerfed and instead try to counter it. From the tone of his interviews, he sounds like a bigger complainer than MorroW. Who knows what it'd be like if Nestea posted on TeamLiquid?
well people here believe in myths and bunch of pros who would came here could shatter it, and most pros are pretty open about game balance, and what they believe to be true, its the fact they are not posting it on public forums
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United States23455 Posts
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EPT
